Quote from: Abyssal Maw;434429You were asking if constant obsessional ranting against WOTC by fucking mongoloid ex-gamers has impacted my ability to enjoy a game.. and the answer is.. nope.

Who is a "mongoloid" on here?

Are they from Mongolia?  :rolleyes:

Quote from: 1989;4344414e combat is shitty combat.

Take your grids and tokens, and f*ck off.

Give me pre-3e-era combat any day of the week.

Suck it, hater.

I didn't realize Battlesystem caused all 2nd edition products to cease production and to no longer be available.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;434434... so.. short story: Essentials isn't really an identity in itself.

That's interesting and insightful.  Thanks!

Quote from: Doom;434445I didn't realize Battlesystem caused all 2nd edition products to cease production and to no longer be available.

No, that was the inevitable march of time that did that.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;434429Despite the sociopathic obsessional rantings of the haters, 4e fans still seem to be enjoying the game, and we now have over 150 people signed up for the meetup I kinda manage. I know I am still enjoying it. 4E is still the best version of D&D ever published (I guess that's what we call "an opinion" type statement). But really, it's been a great year- launched my own campaign world, ran the all-drow campaign, My GF and I went to GenCon.. completed the Raven's Bluff series..once as a player and then as a DM. Ran several sessions of Gamma World. I've been having a great time. Why would that be "brutal"? Personally speaking, this has been the greatest year of gaming I can remember.

Oh wait- that wasn't what you were asking, really. You were asking if constant obsessional ranting against WOTC by fucking mongoloid ex-gamers has impacted my ability to enjoy a game.. and the answer is.. nope. Didn't stop any of us at all.

I'm trying to imagine the levels of self-hatred that spurred this thread.

4vengers 4ssemble!

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;434434short story: Essentials isn't really an identity in itself.

I think it's very true when you play Essentials stuff with regular 4e stuff. When I consider Essentials on its own, however, I feel like it's got an identity of its own. There is definitely a shift in the feel of the game from what I'm reading from the rules books. More .. traditional is not the word. More swords & sorcery in feel, maybe? I don't know how to describe it. The Thief. The Slayer. The Knight. It feels less gonzo, less dragon ball, more ... D&D.

Quote from: jeff37923;4344504vengers 4ssemble!

Weakling Ex-Gamers! Form Battle Ranks!

Now Squeal in unison!

Quote from: Benoist;434451I think it's very true when you play Essentials stuff with regular 4e stuff. When I consider Essentials on its own, however, I feel like it's got an identity of its own. There is definitely a shift in the feel of the game from what I'm reading from the rules books. More .. traditional is not the word. More swords & sorcery in feel, maybe? I don't know how to describe it. The Thief. The Slayer. The Knight. It feels less gonzo, less dragon ball, more ... D&D.

D&D4e defines D&D. Essentials is just "D&D for beginners"

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;434453D&D4e defines D&D. Essentials is just "D&D for beginners"

I don't see it that way. Maybe because I didn't bite into the original 4e. I don't know.

When you say that, it sounds to me like people who played AD&D and said "AD&D is the game. Red Box is just kiddie D&D." Just like there are many 4e fans who would disagree with you today, there were and still are many fans of Mentzer and Moldvay who would disagree with the notion these were "kiddie D&D games."

Quote from: Benoist;434454I don't see it that way.

Not everyone has to see things the same way, I guess.

That's the way opinions work.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;434452Weakling Ex-Gamers! Form Battle Ranks!

Now Squeal in unison!

Are they minions?

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;434455Not everyone has to see things the same way, I guess.

That's the way opinions work.

Indeed.

Quote from: jeff37923;4344504vengers 4ssemble!

That's acting like the bully on the playground who makes fun of a kid for getting upset because you hit him with a stick.

But I forgot, it's much more...uh..."mature"?  "Civilized"? To let people shit all over something and not utter a word because you'd be interrupting their circle-jerk.

Quote from: Benoist;434454When you say that, it sounds to me like people who played AD&D and said "AD&D is the game. Red Box is just kiddie D&D." Just like there are many 4e fans who would disagree with you today, there were and still are many fans of Mentzer and Moldvay who would disagree with the notion these were "kiddie D&D games."

Well, Red box D&D really was kinda considered the "kiddie D&D" of the age, and you would then bump up to "advanced" AD&D when you were ready. I really do recall this- I bet I'm not the only one... I'm not sure it was true or anything.

But- consider the subject matter: AD&D had a generally serious fantasy tone. A lot of the Basic adventures by comparison were like Top Ballista
or specifically featured the art of Jim Holloway:

(from the 'Book of Wondrous inventions'..)

 I didn't really take a second look at "basic" D&D until Voyage of the Princess Ark came out. Even that had a ton of whimsy to it. The Lupins and the Rakasta from Mystara's moon come to mind. When 4e's PHB2 came out there was a lot of sneering from a guy here about "puppy and kitty people" in reference to longtooth and razorclaw shifters (origially from Ebberron) but Lupins and Rakasta were literally puppy and kitty people.

But whimsical can be fun.... Tyrannically fun!