......Responding to the thread title.....

Well, they aren't saying much - they are still waiting for that combat encounter to end.

(Damn 8 hours just for 6 Orcs? Holy Shit man!)



- Ed C.

I just got home from a great 4e session, I mean really awesome. It reminded me a lot of some of the best 3.x sessions I've played, except fun. 4e is pretty clearly the best thing ever, and the rest of yez are obviously just bitchy grognards, and jealous of my fun.

No, what 4e is and isn't doesn't so much relate to quality as scope.  D&D almost accidentally managed to be a very broadly applicable system with aspects that appealed to wargamers, roleplayers, story tellers, adventurers and so on.  It didn't appeal so much to detail freaks.

What 4e did was shift the focus to detail freaks and wargamers.  It's not a bad game, just one that utterly misunderstood why D&D has been so popular for so long.

And yes, I'm a detail freak and a wargamer.  I still don't like 4e but that's another story.

Quote from: two_fishes;434334I just got home from a great 4e session, I mean really awesome. It reminded me a lot of some of the best 3.x sessions I've played, except fun. 4e is pretty clearly the best thing ever, and the rest of yez are obviously just bitchy grognards, and jealous of my fun.

Clearly, this Fun Kills Fascists.

This thread will end well.

Alas, gotta go, gaming in ca. 2 hours. For the first time in years, with seven players. Eeeek. :eek:

Quote from: two_fishes;434334I just got home from a great 4e session, I mean really awesome. It reminded me a lot of some of the best 3.x sessions I've played, except fun. 4e is pretty clearly the best thing ever, and the rest of yez are obviously just bitchy grognards, and jealous of my fun.

OhmifuckingGod!

Abyssal Maw has hacked two_fishes account!

4E looked promising at the start. Rationalised skills, more interesting core races generally simpler rules. Where it fails is the use of computer game terminology (which got it the nickname "slow game of WoW without a computer") and the addition of needless complexities to replace the needless complexities they cut out. The later is epic fail.

Quote from: David Johansen;434335No, what 4e is and isn't doesn't so much relate to quality as scope.  D&D almost accidentally managed to be a very broadly applicable system with aspects that appealed to wargamers, roleplayers, story tellers, adventurers and so on.  It didn't appeal so much to detail freaks.

What 4e did was shift the focus to detail freaks and wargamers.  It's not a bad game, just one that utterly misunderstood why D&D has been so popular for so long.

Ding! Winner!

I'm sure you can run a 4e game that does appeal to people who enjoy exploration (if Abyssal Maw's great maps are any indication), character acting (method actors will do their thing even when playing Monopoly), etc.

The crux of the matter (for me anyway) is, why bother with 4e's fiddly bits when previous editions deliver a similar (or arguably better) experience to these player populations? Like I've said, I don't have a lot of experience with 4e actual play, so the tactical combat may be the best thing since sliced bread. But I'm generally wary of the Powers system as it feels a bit too scripted for my tastes (I love improvisation, tactics and maneuvers made up on the fly, etc.). But I'm still willing to give it a try, should the opportunity arise.

As for the commercial viability of 4e, I don't think anyone in their right minds wants to see the industry's chief property tank.

Quote from: Melan;434345Alas, gotta go, gaming in ca. 2 hours. For the first time in years, with seven players. Eeeek. :eek:

Congratulations, and happy gaming!

I fired WOTC when they pulled the PDf's of their games and they are still fired.
if you like 4th e play it don't let me stop you after all we play games to have fun.

I have to say after WotC killed the print versions of Dragon and Dungeon, I was a bit angry with them. I still think that was a big mistake on their part.

Quote from: two_fishes;434334It reminded me a lot of some of the best 3.x sessions I've played,

There's a joke in there somewhere.

Quote from: The Butcher;434370The crux of the matter (for me anyway) is, why bother with 4e's fiddly bits when previous editions deliver a similar (or arguably better) experience to these player populations?

Because the combats are more fun with 4e.

Seanchai

Quote from: Ian Warner;4343544E looked promising at the start.

After running a D&D 3.5 campaign, the idea of a game that could be run with less prep was very appealing to me.

Quote from: Ian Warner;434354Where it fails is the use of computer game terminology (which got it the nickname "slow game of WoW without a computer") and the addition of needless complexities to replace the needless complexities they cut out.

The problem, for me, was what the computer game terminology heralded, which was a focus on game play at the player level rather than what's going on with the characters in the setting.  I don't play role-playing games for the same reason I play board games, computer games, and war games.

Quote from: Seanchai;434402Because the combats are more fun with 4e.

It's like saying that kraft dinner is better than pasta with crème fraiche, mushrooms, gorgonzola and a nice chianti. I mean sure, sometimes. But always better, all the time? Yeah. No.

Kraft dinner tasting like plastic.  :banghead: