Quote from: ggroy;434758The old DIKU muds back in the early 1990's, used a slightly modified THAC0 system (ie. with descending AC) for combat.

Ok . . . :confused:

Quote from: 1989;434752The problem with 4e is that it's a pile of shit -- a tactical boardgame of fantasy superheroes.

I dont see it needing minatures any more then you did with 3.5

Quote from: 1989;434752How to improve 4e? Throw it in the garbage and bring back AD&D.

If you have a time machine you can go back in time to the 80's.  The rest of us are happy with the hobby moving forward.  We have better gaming options (and more game options then ever before).

Quote from: 1989;434752If enough people voice their displeasure (and vote with their wallets), then we may eventually get a game that can meet the needs of many playstyles (as was the case with AD&D) instead of just one playstyle.

Doubtful.  Wizards is going to do whatever it takes to make them more money.  They are a company after all.

There are enough versions of D&D available that really a new version isnt even nessacary.  They should sit on D&D for awhile and then in a couple of years release a new version

Quote from: 1989;434761Ok . . . :confused:

The idea is to brainwash the video gamers into seeing the AD&D (style) ruleset, instead of post-y2k d20 style variants.

Quote from: Shazbot79;434705Recognizing and discussing a game's various blemishes is the best way to brainstorm improvements.

Is a discussion what's happening here, however? (For example, "How to improve 4e? Throw it in the garbage and bring back AD&D.")

Moreover, how often do folks here actually discuss 4e, this thread aside? Statements like the example I quote above are the things I things that get posted in our "discussions" about 4e.

When I started playing 4e, which wasn't until some time after it's release, I was very curious to juxtapose the actual game with what I'd heard about it and draw my own conclusions. I did so. I discovered things I liked about the game and things I didn't like, things I wanted to changed.

It would be dumb, dumb, dumb to try and discuss the latter here.

Seanchai

"War... War never changes."

Quote from: Daedalus;434746But the problem is that people like Jeff and 1989 arent looking for ways to improve the game, they just want to vent and bitch about the game.  They arent looking to be constructive, they are just being trolls.

Then you are a Goddamn fucking retarded lemming who so identifies with his favorite game that he does not see the difference between the game and the Player who is playing it. I do, otherwise I would be shitting on every 4E Player on this board and not just the 4venging 4E Zealots like yourself, Abyssal Maw, and Seanchai.

In fact, Abyssal Maw has been pretty restrained since our last exchange in this thread and I can respect that and wish him the best of luck and fun (as long as he behaves). You, however, are just whining about people not liking Your Favorite Game.

Get a clue, shithead, and quit nursing your persecution complex.

Do I want to improve 4E? No. The game does not work for me, is not to my taste, and I would find it a waste of time and effort for me to try and improve a game that fundamentally does not suit me since there are so many alternatives like Labyrinth Lord, B/X D&D, BECMI D&D, Rules Cyclopedia D&D, AD&D, OSRIC, AD&D 2E, D&D 3.0, D&D 3.5, and Pathfinder that do scratch my fantasy itch without me massively houseruling a system to make it functional for me. Sorry, but WotC is not currently producing a product that I wish to spend money on, so I will not do so and you may take up my slack.

Quote from: Seanchai;434780Is a discussion what's happening here, however? (For example, "How to improve 4e? Throw it in the garbage and bring back AD&D.")

Moreover, how often do folks here actually discuss 4e, this thread aside? Statements like the example I quote above are the things I things that get posted in our "discussions" about 4e.

When I started playing 4e, which wasn't until some time after it's release, I was very curious to juxtapose the actual game with what I'd heard about it and draw my own conclusions. I did so. I discovered things I liked about the game and things I didn't like, things I wanted to changed.

It would be dumb, dumb, dumb to try and discuss the latter here.

Seanchai

I'm talking about constructive criticism and discussion.

1989 is a frothing at the mouth psychotic who can't reconcile the fact that people have differents ideas and tastes without throwing a public temper tantrum about it.

Fair point, but both sides have their share.

Quote from: Shazbot79;434795I'm talking about constructive criticism and discussion.

I know. Have you seen any regarding 4e on RPGSite?

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;434801I know. Have you seen any regarding 4e on RPGSite?

Seanchai

The support material often has nice maps.

(THERE, a positive comment)

.....although, PAIZO makes much nicer maps.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Seanchai;434801I know. Have you seen any regarding 4e on RPGSite?

Seanchai

I've seen a few salient points made on this site.

It's actually random aspie basement cases like 1989 that get so emotionally invested in this stuff as to become incensed and actively antagonize fans of games that they don't themselves enjoy.

We interrupt the poo flinging for a foxy chickterlude:



Awesome.

Quote from: jeff37923;434662You see dipshit, I'm not insulting the game, I'm insulting the gamer. There's a difference. If you'll notice, I don't give jgants or Benoist equal amounts of shit about playing 4E and having fun for example because they are not being wankers about playing 4E.

Wholly agree.  I always like hearing about Mr Gants and what his group is up to.  Benoist's Gamma World and 4e tales are always welcome with me.  As are several others; I am sure ggroy would have a fascinating story or two about 4e sessions.

As Jeff says, these people aren't douchebags about what they play.

PS:  Hey, Benoist, I stole your picture of Mt. Saint Michel.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;434691The problem is, I really do think it slowed things down and made everyone confused.

How did it do that, when it is the exact same game?

Quote from: Orpheo;434814We interrupt the poo flinging for a foxy chickterlude:

Awesome.

I happen to know for a fact that uniform does not conform to UPS regulations for attire on the job.