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Do you have an old forgotten favorite from the early days of the hobby that has never gotten the love it deserves?

Is there a RPG from those days that deserves a rebound? If so, what makes it special?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1121379Do you have an old forgotten favorite from the early days of the hobby that has never gotten the love it deserves?

Is there a RPG from those days that deserves a rebound? If so, what makes it special?

For my money, James Bond 007.

Call of Cthulhu, Champions, and Paranoia are classics that have stuck around well -- but probably from being stuck with an expensive license, I think JB007 disappeared despite being seemingly fairly successful. I think it was an excellent design.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1121379Do you have an old forgotten favorite from the early days of the hobby that has never gotten the love it deserves?

Is there a RPG from those days that deserves a rebound? If so, what makes it special?

Palladium Fantasy. A nice variation of D&D that existed at the time of its release with plenty of options, varied types of magic, and a large world just waiting to be detailed. It was sadly killed by a second edition that sucked out all the fun and flavor by turning it into Rifts set in the fantasy world.

Quote from: jhkim;1121381For my money, James Bond 007.

JB007 was a great game. They even made adventures that were based on the movies but not 100% the same as the movies in order to surprise the players. A few wonky rules though.

As for a game, my vote would be for Bushido (FGU '81). It had a great game system that was easy to run but it also had some of the worst editing on an RPG with waaaay to many abbreviations and a rulebook with a stream of consciousness layout. If they just reorganized the sections and printed it with a more reasonable font size it would get more notice IMO. It also included a huge variety of extra rules like social standing, fighting battles, fighting IN battles, domain management, et al.

Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1121382Palladium Fantasy. A nice variation of D&D that existed at the time of its release with plenty of options, varied types of magic, and a large world just waiting to be detailed. It was sadly killed by a second edition that sucked out all the fun and flavor by turning it into Rifts set in the fantasy world.

You beat me to the punch on this one. If I HAD to play an OSR game, Palladium Fantasy 1e would my go to (2e would only be touched to the extent that some of the world books literally only exist for 2e and the fluff is still fantastic).

For me it would be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Not quite a game that never got the love it deserves--since I've ran into plenty of people who liked it online--but the one 80s RPG I remember playing and loved was the old TSR Marvel Super Heroes RPG (FASERIP). It's one of the simplest yet most versatile systems I've ever played--easy to play, easy to learn, with simple mechanics, yet you can pretty much do anything with it. Every action defaults to an attribute covering a broad area of activity that gets a flat bonus if you training in the specific task, and the power system is easily customizable to create almost any ability by simply assigning a rank which determines any characteristics it has--damage, damage resistance, difficulty to resist conditions, etc.

Just about the only problem the system has is that attack damage is a static value that can take out a low health character too fast, but that could easily be remedied by houseruling some random damage mechanic based on the attack's rank number or something (like maybe 1d10 every 5 Rank Number?).

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Quote from: lordmalachdrim;1121382Palladium Fantasy. A nice variation of D&D that existed at the time of its release with plenty of options, varied types of magic, and a large world just waiting to be detailed. It was sadly killed by a second edition that sucked out all the fun and flavor by turning it into Rifts set in the fantasy world.

It's too bad that somebody hasn't made a retro clone of it but I guess everyone is too scared of Kevin.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1121408Not quite a game that never got the love it deserves--since I've ran into plenty of people who liked it online--but the one 80s RPG I remember playing and loved was the old TSR Marvel Super Heroes RPG (FASERIP). It's one of the simplest yet most versatile systems I've ever played--easy to play, easy to learn, with simple mechanics, yet you can pretty much do anything with it. Every action defaults to an attribute covering a broad area of activity that gets a flat bonus if you training in the specific task, and the power system is easily customizable to create almost any ability by simply assigning a rank which determines any characteristics it has--damage, damage resistance, difficulty to resist conditions, etc.

Just about the only problem the system has is that attack damage is a static value that can take out a low health character too fast, but that could easily be remedied by houseruling some random damage mechanic based on the attack's rank number or something (like maybe 1d10 every 5 Rank Number?).

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ultimate powers book was the gem, really wierd random hero generation by table and diceroll, rolled, for example, a humanoid plant creature with luck manipulation and pyshic surgery powers, ripping off limbs and attaching them to foreheads and such, really wierd misfit groups would result that all looked something like a ninja turtles comic in its trashy duct taped together mishmash...and then to top it off an old b52 becomes their hero vehicle/turtle van.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1121408Not quite a game that never got the love it deserves--since I've ran into plenty of people who liked it online--but the one 80s RPG I remember playing and loved was the old TSR Marvel Super Heroes RPG (FASERIP).

Back in the 90s, there was a retro-clone of this game. It was before the OSR and before the term "retro-clone" was being used but it was a version of this game with all the specific Marvel stuff removed. I don't remember what it was called though.

Tunnels & Trolls

I'm surprised it doesn't get way more love, particularly as an introductory ruleset for first-time players. It's got a lot of OSR spirit and feel, has easy mechanics to teach, and its default settings/content are wacky gonzo fun.

I'm playing a FATE game right now (I know, I know...) and having started to play quite a bit of T&T again recently, I kind of wish we could throw out all the FATE mechanics and make it T&T instead.

I'm hoping to run a few campaigns of it this year. I think the company are planning a reprint of the latest rules text. I really hope that happens soon.

Quote from: Slipshot762;1121412ultimate powers book was the gem, really wierd random hero generation by table and diceroll, rolled, for example, a humanoid plant creature with luck manipulation and pyshic surgery powers, ripping off limbs and attaching them to foreheads and such, really wierd misfit groups would result that all looked something like a ninja turtles comic in its trashy duct taped together mishmash...and then to top it off an old b52 becomes their hero vehicle/turtle van.

I never got around getting that book back in the day, but just found a PDF copy, so I'm going to be checking it out. Seems to add a lot of extra detail to character origins and such, compared to the original.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121457Back in the 90s, there was a retro-clone of this game. It was before the OSR and before the term "retro-clone" was being used but it was a version of this game with all the specific Marvel stuff removed. I don't remember what it was called though.

Not sure if this was the one, but I ran into this on Drivethru RPG, where they have the PDF for free.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/177913/Faserip

Boot Hill and RECON are both hidden gems.

The Arcanum/Atlantis RPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis_(role-playing_game))

First, it was the first RPG based on D&D that gave you much more than the Basic/Expert rules - exp. with the number and variety of classes (30+, covering, BTW, a wide variety of spellcasters and spell schools).

Second, the setting was "The World before the fall of Atlantis", and had a strong pulp-Hyborian flavour (Hyboria was actually part of the setting). Today you can find the same flavour in the wonderful "Dominions" computer series of strategy games, but back in the day only in Atlantis I found the opportunity to play from traditional Celtic myth to Ancient Babylon via Meso-American cultures and Norse paganism (everything sprinkled with the stray lovecraftian concept). I never ran a game in Atlantis, but The Arcanum was a wonderful sourcebook for my B/E D&D gaming before I switched to AD&D.

The Arcanum had a troubled history, with a 30th Anniversary Edition now on DriveThruRPG (thanks Wikipedia!) The rights on other books of the system, however, are owned by other people, and, as of today, unavailable.

How about RuneQuest 1st ed. Or even 2nd ed. MOST of the RQ love up until recently has more been RQ3. And then with RuneQuest Glorantha, it seems almost all interest the older versions of RQ has dropped, but almost no one considers RQ1 anymore.

Of course I keep giving it love...

Other games from the 70s I think could deserve more love: Bunnies & Burrows (though there is some new interest, but not necessarily in the original), Chivalry & Sorcery (again, interest in new editions but not so much in 1st ed), Bushido (I never played this, but it sounded like a decent fantasy Japan game at the time).

From the 80s: Thieve's Guild

Star Frontiers.

You know I have to go with Original Dungeons and Dragons here. It was perfect for everything that I wanted to do, in order to run a Fantasy role-playing game, and it still holds up well, even now, ...after almost fifty years. I still run many games a year where new players get to experience the wonders of imagining themselves in their favorite fantasy setting, and have a huge crew of older players that have come back to that game and fill my tables at game shows and conventions.

Maelstrom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maelstrom_(role-playing_game)). It looked like a Fighting Fantasy book but had its own d100 roll-under system that I've read is pretty clearly a direct ancestor of WHFRP. The default setting is Tudor England. It oozes flavour. Arion Games gave it a recent reprint.

I highly recommend BUSHIDO to anyone who enjoys Samurai Fantasy.

As for RECON, which edition do people recommend? I don''t know the difference between Advanced and Deluxe. I know that Zozer Games did a retro-whatever called GRUNT, but I've never played it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1121525I highly recommend BUSHIDO to anyone who enjoys Samurai Fantasy.

As for RECON, which edition do people recommend? I don''t know the difference between Advanced and Deluxe. I know that Zozer Games did a retro-whatever called GRUNT, but I've never played it.

The original little black books and newsprint supplements by RPG Inc when the game was actually set during the Vietnam war.

The Revised Recon published by Palladium is fine for the rules, but they sterilized the setting using a kind of Hollywoodified "not Vietnam" which I personally find lame and somewhat insulting. Advanced Recon was a rules supplement put out by Palladium, Deluxe was a later printing of Revised that included Advanced Recon.

Since they sterilized the setting they also never reprinted the Vietnam based supplements or Sayeret and Track Commander which was a Recon supplement for the Arab / Israeli Wars.

FASA's Behind Enemy Lines and Task Force Games Delta Force. Both games were written by William Keith Jr (a prolific freelance Traveller author) and use a very similar game system (I consider DF to be advanced BEL). Behind Enemy Lines is a WW2 game, Delta Force a modern (1980s) military game, specifically spec ops and anti-terrorism missions. They maintain a fine balance between small unit tactical wargame and RPG.

I think these two games are the best military RPGs that have been written. PCs are well developed, but chargen is also pretty quick since occasional PC death is likely.

Quote from: ffilz;1121494Other games from the 70s I think could deserve more love: Bunnies & Burrows

+1.

When I was 14 years old I actually tried to design a boardgame based on "Watership Down" (my source of inspiration being the "War of the Ring" game by SPI). I even built a mockup but I never managed to get it to work. Obviously at the time I didn't know about RPGs...

Quote from: Toadmaster;1121528Task Force Games Delta Force.  

I liked Delta Force too and ran a memorable campaign back in the day. There were some good adventures for it too. Also Crime Fighter by the same publisher. It didn't use the same system but one a little like a stripped-down Hero System, which I liked.

I rather enjoyed The Price of Freedom, by West End Games. The combat system was interesting and I adopted it for my own 1940 - England Invaded! (http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/1940-england-invaded) rpg.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1121525I highly recommend BUSHIDO to anyone who enjoys Samurai Fantasy.

As for RECON, which edition do people recommend? I don''t know the difference between Advanced and Deluxe. I know that Zozer Games did a retro-whatever called GRUNT, but I've never played it.

I stick with the original that was produced before the Palladium buyout. I don't know much about the Palladium versions (Advanced, Deluxe, and Revised) other than they're more "PC" with a lot of the real-life nations being fictionalized, with some hilarious results (like the Soviet Union being referred to as "Big Red" and the South Africa/Rhodesia expy being renamed "Boorland" while South Vietnam is somehow presented as a monarchy instead of the weak republic it was in real life)

The original RECON used the real names of countries, the corebook focused on 'Nam, as did the adventure modules released during that time. There was a single supplement released before the Palladium buyout, which was called Track Commander.

Track Commander was about the Arab-Israeli conflicts of the 50's, 60's, and 70's, with special attention given to the vehicle combat of the Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War, as well as the counter-terrorist raids against the PLO. It was assumed that players in a Track Commander game would be part of an IDF mechanized unit or a Mossad/Sayaret counter-terrorism unit, although its vehicle combat rules were compatible with any Cold War era setting.

There was also a planned supplement called "Headhunters" which was about mercenaries in Central America and Sub-Saharan Africa, and even in the RECON corebook, it was implied that mercenaries were going to be a focus of the game later on. The text even states in a few places that players who didn't want to play in 'Nam could be mercenaries instead, or the PC's who survived a Vietnam campaign could become mercenaries later on.

EDIT-Ninja'd by Toadmaster

Quote from: Reckall;1121490The Arcanum/Atlantis RPG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis_(role-playing_game))

First, it was the first RPG based on D&D that gave you much more than the Basic/Expert rules - exp. with the number and variety of classes (30+, covering, BTW, a wide variety of spellcasters and spell schools).

Second, the setting was "The World before the fall of Atlantis", and had a strong pulp-Hyborian flavour (Hyboria was actually part of the setting). Today you can find the same flavour in the wonderful "Dominions" computer series of strategy games, but back in the day only in Atlantis I found the opportunity to play from traditional Celtic myth to Ancient Babylon via Meso-American cultures and Norse paganism (everything sprinkled with the stray lovecraftian concept). I never ran a game in Atlantis, but The Arcanum was a wonderful sourcebook for my B/E D&D gaming before I switched to AD&D.

The Arcanum had a troubled history, with a 30th Anniversary Edition now on DriveThruRPG (thanks Wikipedia!) The rights on other books of the system, however, are owned by other people, and, as of today, unavailable.

One of the unsung greats indeed. And it's cousins - Talislanta, Atlantis. Wonderfully unsung awesome games that never seemed to get the attention they deserved. But I'm clearly biased.

I'll third the Arcanum! I still use it for inspiration in my 5th ed games. Obviously a labour of love and such great appendices!

Quote from: Marchand;1121521Maelstrom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maelstrom_(role-playing_game)). It looked like a Fighting Fantasy book but had its own d100 roll-under system that I've read is pretty clearly a direct ancestor of WHFRP. The default setting is Tudor England. It oozes flavour. Arion Games gave it a recent reprint.

I bought my copy of that game in England in the 1980s as a teenager. Still have it.

There's also Commando from SPI, a military-themed RPG from the late 70's that I know almost nothing about. I'd like to find out more about it, if possible.

From what I understand, it was sold in a board game boxed set and had two sets of rules, the first set is a tactical-level wargame and the other set is a proper roleplaying game with a modern military theme.

I would go with Bushido, James Bond, Maelstrom, Dragon Warriors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Warriors) and Time Lord (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TimeLord_(role-playing_game))

Bushido is the most eligant system hidden under wargamer rules. James Bond was just fun and did its background justice. Maelstrom had an exelent  background and the magic system was cool even if the rules where a bit strange in places. Dragon Warriors was just fun and should become a standard starter RPG. Timelord was the best DrWho game, and the dice mechanic was intresting and worked (i also like the squezing into zent rules which used size as a penatly).

Quote from: zincmoat;1121627Dragon Warriors[/URL]
Dragon Warriors was just fun and should become a standard starter RPG.

Dave Morris is working on a new edition. Here's a link to his patreon where he's releasing information has he works on it. https://www.patreon.com/jewelspider

It has been ages since I played James Bond.  I did get the "Classified" clone of it and read through that recently.  My sense is that the biggest "drawback" it has as a game is that it is heavily focused on a subset of the sub-genre of action/spy thrillers centered on James Bond movies.  I don't think it translates well to anything else, even some other action or spy settings.  Well, that and like any game heavily focused on "modern times", it is easy for it to become rapidly dated.  Of course, if what you want is to do James Bond, it is difficult to beat it.  

Funny, because Dragon Quest is built on very similar mechanics as James Bond.  I love DQ.  The Bond version of those mechanics have held up better than the DQ version, in part because the genre is narrower.

Certainly Maelstrom.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1121379Do you have an old forgotten favorite from the early days of the hobby that has never gotten the love it deserves?

Is there a RPG from those days that deserves a rebound? If so, what makes it special?

Twilight:2000.  It's fantastic alt-history, and it delves into a scenario where the world could (possibly) rebound from nuclear devastation (and indeed, it does, in 2300 AD).  It is to Gamma World as Cyberpunk 2020 is to Shadowrun.  A grittier, darker vision of the future with very little to no "weird" stuff in it (although seeing the need for that, a supplement called Twilight Nightmares was released which gives options for Zombies, time-travel, Cthulhu-like monsters, aliens etc. showing up in the game).

But core v.1 timeline T2k is awesome.  There's no need to "update" the timeline to try and make it fit current events.  They tried that with v.2, 2.2 and then later the well-meaning but poorly done Twilight: 2013, and they just kind of fell flat.  Leave the game steeped in Cold War era visions of a nuclear future and you've got a hell of a good game.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1121686It has been ages since I played James Bond.  I did get the "Classified" clone of it and read through that recently.  

There was another clone called "Double Zero" years ago (early 2000s). IIRC, the author took my advice and swapped the Q results so that Q1 was the worst result and Q4 was the best (to facilitate multi-action challenges).

I was on the guy's mailing list when he sent out an update that said, "If you don't support abortion, do not buy my book." It came completely out of nowhere and was the first time I'd seen an RPG author purity test their audience.

QuoteMy sense is that the biggest "drawback" it has as a game is that it is heavily focused on a subset of the sub-genre of action/spy thrillers centered on James Bond movies.  I don't think it translates well to anything else, even some other action or spy settings.

The car chase rules had some great ideas and I could see this game working for a Fast & Furious or Mission Impossible style of setting.

Wizards' World. This game is from 1983 and never got the love it was due. Every race has it's own unique stats including NPC's and Monsters. It is math heavy during creation but this is more than made up for in play. It is back in print from Goblinoid Games
Another one is FTL: 2448 it is a science fiction game that wrote as a response to Traveller. It is available on CD-Rom from Tri-Tac games.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1121686My sense is that the biggest "drawback" it has as a game is that it is heavily focused on a subset of the sub-genre of action/spy thrillers centered on James Bond movies.  I don't think it translates well to anything else, even some other action or spy settings.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;1121810The car chase rules had some great ideas and I could see this game working for a Fast & Furious or Mission Impossible style of setting.

On the one hand, when I've personally used James Bond 007, it was for within the James Bond setting. But the core system itself seems easy to use for something like Mission Impossible or other superspy settings. It just means that one can't use the background material as-is.

Quote from: jhkim;1121832On the one hand, when I've personally used James Bond 007, it was for within the James Bond setting. But the core system itself seems easy to use for something like Mission Impossible or other superspy settings. It just means that one can't use the background material as-is.

Yeah, that is why I was a bit wishy-washy in my statement.  There's a radius of genre around "James Bond" in which it wouldn't be that hard to use it.  Then as you edge away from that, it gets less and less viable.  

The chase rules are a great example, because they fit "action movie/thriller/spy" chases pretty much perfect.  You aren't going to do Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy with James Bond, though (or at least not without some serious twisting).

1. FGU's Space Opera. Another response to Traveller. The rules are a kitchen-sink hodge-podge. That setting, though. Love that setting.

2. The Morrow Project. Again, less the rules and more the setting. (Bruce Morrow my Batarang! Bruce Wayne, more like.)

Quote from: Spinachcat;1121379Do you have an old forgotten favorite from the early days of the hobby that has never gotten the love it deserves?
Is there a RPG from those days that deserves a rebound? If so, what makes it special?

Some games from the '70s and early '80s that probably deserve a second life:

- Ghostbusters
- Lace & Steel (I've heard good things about Flashing Blades, too, but haven't played it)
- Amber Diceless
- Thieves Guild
- Lords of Creations (I've thought about running this for a World of Tiers campaign)

Others that are probably better off dead and forgotten:

- Phantasy Conclave (I just picked a copy of this up at the end of last year---I never owned it as a kid, but played some games at conventions BITD)
- Ysgarth
- Element Masters (another game I only played at cons)
- Flash Gordon & the Warriors of Mongo (another FGU title; I haven't played this, but did pick it up as a possible sourcebook for use as a Castle Greyhawk level sometime :D )

Allan.

I'm quite fond of Chaosium's Worlds of Wonder.  Magic World has one of my very favorite magic systems.

Sword Bearer was neat and had a neat magic system.  It needed some setting support but sadly Heritage didn't survive to do anything with it.  I really regret not picking up all their plastic miniature sets.

The cool thing about Space Opera is that they really give you Bolos and Power Guns and Dial a Guns and various other classic hardware.  It's very much over the top Space Opera.  I've always been a bit disappointed that they didn't do a bit more with ship to ship weapons which are pretty much limited to blasters and torpedoes.

Quote from: grodog;1122039Some games from the '70s and early '80s that probably deserve a second life:

- Lords of Creations (I've thought about running this for a World of Tiers campaign)

Allan.

I've often considered that myself

Chaosium need to redo the BRP book, with a brand new version of Worlds of Wonder attached to it.
I know Advanced Fighting Fantasy has been redone, but it really needs to have more profile than it currently has.
Also a new slim edition of Tunnels & Trolls would be good as well.

Quote from: Mankcam;1122333Chaosium need to redo the BRP book, with a brand new version of Worlds of Wonder attached to it.
I know Advanced Fighting Fantasy has been redone, but it really needs to have more profile than it currently has.
Also a new slim edition of Tunnels & Trolls would be good as well.

+1, or rather +2/3 (I don't care about Tunnels and Trolls).

Quote from: Mankcam;1122333Also a new slim edition of Tunnels & Trolls would be good as well.

Flying Buffalo is working on a 2-volume split of the existing Deluxe rules, so that the core rules are in one smaller book.

They also found and are selling some copies of the 5th edition rules printed in the UK if you just want a trimmer reference now.

Quote from: RandyB;11218361. FGU's Space Opera. Another response to Traveller. The rules are a kitchen-sink hodge-podge. That setting, though. Love that setting.

The interesting thing is that Space Opera is built on top of and compatible with the Space Marine miniatures game from 1977.  So the rpg elements really are tacked on.  I wish they'd done a bit more with starship combat.

Quote from: David Johansen;1122364The interesting thing is that Space Opera is built on top of and compatible with the Space Marine miniatures game from 1977.  So the rpg elements really are tacked on.  I wish they'd done a bit more with starship combat.

And the early editions of the Space Marine game had conversion rules for D&D. Those can be tracked down if you look hard enough.

I've always had a soft spot for the High Fantasy rpg.

https://rpggeek.com/rpg/1719/high-fantasy

There were several books with adventures and even a miniatures combat game.  The rules were kind of wonky but the main rule book has the single best solo adventure that I've ever played.  And the setting is this very cool Empire of the Petal Throne kind of place.

Yeah, High Fantasy, lots of neat stuff like the down time activities for the classes.  The combat system is a bit odd but it works.  The skill system they tacked on in second edition is pretty sad: roll % for each of around 20 skills that's your skill rating.  No interface with class abilities or levels at all.

Also, Wizard's Realm where you roll 2d10 for your stats, pick three skills or spells and go adventuring.  Really a fun game that crams a lot into a little booklet.  They probably could have filled the world map in a bit more :D

Quote from: goblinslayer;1122378I've always had a soft spot for the High Fantasy rpg.

https://rpggeek.com/rpg/1719/high-fantasy

There were several books with adventures and even a miniatures combat game.  The rules were kind of wonky but the main rule book has the single best solo adventure that I've ever played.  And the setting is this very cool Empire of the Petal Throne kind of place.

High Fantasy is the game that got me into the hobby.

I haven't looked at Lords of Creation since it was first released.  I don't remember it being particularly appealing, though maybe that was through less experienced eyes.

Quote from: grodog;1122039Some games from the '70s and early '80s that probably deserve a second life:

- Ghostbusters
- Lace & Steel (I've heard good things about Flashing Blades, too, but haven't played it)
- Amber Diceless
- Thieves Guild
- Lords of Creations (I've thought about running this for a World of Tiers campaign)

Well, Amber lives on through the games it inspired: Lords of Olympus and Lords of Gossamer & Shadow.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1122397I haven't looked at Lords of Creation since it was first released.  I don't remember it being particularly appealing, though maybe that was through less experienced eyes.

LoC was very imaginative, and weaved together elements from many real world mythologies. The problem is the game is supposed to be about world-hopping, but the box set doesn't explain how that works. Characters do gain world hopping powers, but only very, very late in the game when they're immensely powerful. This might be explained in the Horn of Roland, which was apparently supposed to be part of the core box. But we never had a copy, so never really grokked where Moldvay was going with the game, and had to improvise our own thing. (We borrowed from Zelazny's Roadmarks.)