TheRPGSite

Edit: Add/Change would be a better title for this, as not all of my things are pure additions.

If you could add/change up to 10 rules to your favorite edition of Dungeons & Dragons, what would they be and why?

I'm thinking more in terms of general rules, as opposed to specific spells, magic items, etc.

This is what I'd do for 3rd Edition:

1.  A Tome of Battle system for noncasters, except with ranged and area of effect attacks.  And some out of combat utility stuff.  And ways of improved mobility, like getting Burrow, Swim, and Fly speeds.  Doesn't necessarily need to be "magic" as in Vancian spellcasting, more like the Monk class getting persistent and limited-use abilities through training, meditation, conflict, etc.

2. Folding needless and superfluous skills into existing ones.  For example, fold Knowledge (Nature) into Survival.

3. A limit on the purchasing power of gold, in that certain powerful magic items (and not just artifacts) can't be bought on the market, only gained through adventuring.

4. Magic items which scale in accordance with level, so that +1 weapons won't be so underwhelming.

5. I'd use Oslecamo's Improved Monster Classes for monster PCs.

6. Power Attack and Combat Expertise are available to all, and Power Attack can be used with light and off-hand weapons (and is always traded on a -1 attack/+2 damage basis).

7. Give out some of the weaker feats for free to avoid feat taxes.  Improved Unarmed Strike, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Eschew Materials, and similar feats should not use up a valuable feat slot, and are gained for free.

8. Characters with a BAB of +6 or higher can take a move action and full attack in the same round.

9. Full attacks are made at a 0/-5/-5/-5 penalty instead of a 0/-5/-10/-15 penalty.

10. Bull rush, disarms, trips, and similar combat maneuvers can be performed by anyone without provoking attacks of opportunity.  Additionally, they can be performed in addition to a normal attack with a -2 penalty on the attack roll.

What would yours be?

1. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

2. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

3. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

4. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

5. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

6. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

7. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

8. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

9. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

10. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

Start with second edition.

1. Add background themes from D&D Next.

2. Refocus the saving throw types to FRW from 3e, but keep them primarily class-based so that stats don't become overly important.

3. Add 1 GP = 1 XP from 1e.

4. Add the whole DMG from 1e.

5. Make level drain slightly easier to recover from (not an automatic thing, just make restoration a lower level spell).

6. Clarify how accidentally setting off pit traps etc work (seriously, it's not in the text at all).

7. Expand specialisation categories to either melee weapons, thrown weapons, or missile weapons so that fighters aren't boned when they find magical weapons they can't really use effectively.

8. Replace THAC0 with ascending AC but keep the same basic % hit chances the same - so just re-present the existing maths.

9. Anyone can multiclass as it works in 2e, and anyone can dual class as it works in 2e.

10. Give humans an extra bonus of some kind to make up for how shit they are (maybe an extra background theme).

Sacrosanct, you need to let me know if you ever run an online game so I can join in and tell you what happens to my character.

Sac:  "You fell down the 30' pit and died."

Art:  "Nope."

Sac:  "What do you mean, 'Nope?'"

Art:  "I follow the Sacrosanct philosophy.  The rules are only guidelines.  Play the game how you want.  Death by misstep + gravity makes for a lame story."

Benoist:  "WARGHBLARGHL!!!!!"

Quote from: Arturick;613225Sacrosanct, you need to let me know if you ever run an online game so I can join in and tell you what happens to my character.

Sac:  "You fell down the 30' pit and died."

Art:  "Nope."

Sac:  "What do you mean, 'Nope?'"

Art:  "I follow the Sacrosanct philosophy.  The rules are only guidelines.  Play the game how you want.  Death by misstep + gravity makes for a lame story."

Benoist:  "WARGHBLARGHL!!!!!"

:rolleyes:

Quote from: Sacrosanct;6132191. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.
2. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.
3. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.
4. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.
5. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.
6. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.
7. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.
8. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.
9. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.
10. The rules are guidelines only.  Play the game how you want.

Wow. What an incredibly useless post.  :rolleyes:

For me:

Start with 2e.
Make AC ascending.
Change saves to Fort/Will/Reflex.
Boost Thief skills a bit so they aren't useless at low level.
Add in more player races.
Add in some of the good stuff from PO:Spells and Magic.

Quote from: danbuter;613227Wow. What an incredibly useless post.  :rolleyes:

It was a bit tongue in cheek, but the question was what rule I'd add, and my favorite edition doesn't really need any ;)

This old post (http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=556949&postcount=3) describes what my Platonic D&D looks like. Not sure if it's more or less than 10 rules.

Start with 0e, three LBB classes + Thief (but maybe not the Greyhawk version.)

• Class is not profession. Add freeform backgrounds to represent profession and distinguish one fighter from another fighter (or any class from another example of that class.)
• If a player still can't find the right class, make new classes by mixing old classes, or reskinning abilities of old classes. New classes can't have more abilities than the basic four.
• No rolls for plain old success. If a character can theoretically do something, they can do it. Roll only if there's a risk of something going wrong or there's a chance of something special happening (use 5+ on 1d6 as basic roll for just about anything.)
• Give a +/- 1, 2, or 3 when one side clearly has more advantage in a situation. Otherwise, don't worry about precise bonuses/penalties for elements, and keep bonus inflation under control.
• Don't stack bonuses. +2 Armor and +3 Shield doesn't give you Armor + Shield +5.
• Use the standard magical research rules with a multiplier or divisor for miscellaneous research or training costs. Let characters add non-class abilities through research/training, instead of skill points, feats, proficiencies, or munchkinized classes.
• Don't let players game the rules. Let them game the environment. If a player wants to do something (and it's possible,) let them do it, with any logical consequences of their actions. Don't punish players for thinking of stuff you didn't.
• Give xp for saving people (same as if they were slain monster.) Give xp for other wealth recovered (tame wilderness area to establish trade route = gp value of trade route.) For miscellaneous plans, give xp equal to 10 x ability score used.
• Don't add other rules unless they cause something to happen in the game world that is relevant to that world.

Maybe start with BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia Basic.

1) Use D20+mods for attacks and checks. 6 categories of saves based off the ability scores, including perception saves and Str-saves to avoid being grabbed.
 
2) Optional point-buy character generation; perhaps split say +4 total modifiers across the stats and then receive the minimum stat that gives each modifier.
 
3) Use General Skills, but based off d20+mods instead of roll-under;  +4 to a check for being trained and +2 per extra slot spent, but no adjustment for level. Maybe add a chart or two to random-roll general skills for PCs/NPCs if desired, as an easy background generator.
 
4) Possibly a small set of class-specific skills for each class, for handling thief skills etc. For this maybe something like how Gamma World 4E (1992) did skills. That should give level-based benefits, but without the level-based skills turning into the core task-resolution system.
 
5) Separate Race and Class for dwarves, elves, etc. Keep race-as-class for monster characters like centaurs or pixies, with monster statblocks listing both the normal monster level, and abilities level-by-level so the GM can advance them up/down easily.
 
6) Allow multiclassing between classes with AD&D rules, splitting xp 50/50. Monster characters who have a class as well (i.e. the mind flayer wizard with both psi-powers and magic) would also be treated as multiclassed.
 
7) Replace weapon mastery with the 2nd ed. weapon proficiency system (including weapon specialization for fighters only).
 
8) Add special manuever rules from the 2E Complete Fighter as optional rules to allow for parries, called shots to specific locations, Disarms, Grabs, weapon pins, etc, with a few tweaks i.e. Parry = opposed attack roll and needn't be declared in advance, Grab = used opposed Str saves. The GM can keep these rules out of player hands if desired and just use as guidelines to interpret anything dodgy they try. Penalty to attempt a stunt = weapon non-proficiency penalty (-2 to -5 depending on class) instead of a flat -4.
 
9) Add 2E Combat & Tactics critical hit tables, with caveat the GM can choose a result that would be appropriate, if that would be logical.
 
10) Either import a few classes like ranger or (probably 2E) bard, or list a limited number of 'subclasses' for each class, with each having a couple of the basic special abilities  for the class replaced with something slightly different and perhaps an additional hindrance or too - so Magic-User (Sorcerer), Thief (Bard), Fighter (Amazon) ? etc.

I'm actually in the process of doing this (http://treasureandglory.wordpress.com/) (it's not that hard, you can just copy and paste stuff from the various retro clones thanks to the OGL). The biggest hassle are the spells and spell lists.

Start with 1e, basically.

1) Ascending AC
2) Ascending Saves
3) Ref/Will/Fort Saves instead of 5 (OD&D) or 1 (S&W)
4) Let anyone multiclass
5) "Fix" the broken classes of 1e (Thief, Druid, Bard)
6) Unified XP table
7) Skill list more like BECMI
8) Skill success based on save+attribute bonus (like to pick a lock it would be reflex save+dex modifier compared to a DC, probably 20, but depending on difficulty)
9) Magic items are created by master craftsmen rather than MUs
10) Feats, but no feat chains and more significant (1e style weapon specialization would be a feat), while many of the 3e combat feats are built into combat (cleave, power attack, whirlwind attack, etc)

I will assume Op means 3rd edition.


3X in all forms is my least favorite version, but I am comfortable running it when players demand it.

My added rules:

Power attack has an AC penalty in addition to hit penalty.

Most feat and prestige class prereqs removed.

Dogs are not the only creatures that have Trip.

GM has final say, not rules.

'Trip' builds die instantly.

Characters with a 'Build' die in slow agony.


Ok, last two are not literal; but discouraged.

Well starting from 2e

i) remove all classes outside the base 4 of Rogue, Fighter, Priest and Wizard
ii) Create a toolkit that alow you to create kits/subclasses under each that you can use to create Rangers, Druid, Paladin etc but under the asumption that all PCs come from a kit/subclass ie everyone has a subclass be that Ranger, Gladiator, Rune Mage or blah blah.
Remove Dual classes and multiclassing the subclass/kit method should be enough to create stealthy fighters, combaty wizards and the like.
iii) Remove all races and create a race toolkit that allows you to build any race from Human to Lizardman and for them to have parity.
iv) Unified XP tables
v) Ascending AC
vi) F/R/W saves
vii) Unified Skill mechanic I don't mind if is works on a % like the thief's skills or a d20 but having different systems if daft as is a professional thief having a base 15% at first level to do skill 'A' whereas someone with a NWP might have 80% at another skill 'B' they are not professional with at 1st level.
viii) Reduce the cost of everything by a category of coin GP -SP , SP - CP etc and reduce random Magic items by about 80%
ix) Add a defense adjustment that increases with level like the attack bonus of thaco
x) rethink hit points. Start with 1d6 at 0 level these are physical (you may wish to set to a hard number). Then all HP gained are due to skill and represent luck, skill etc. not physical wounds. set a threshold after which damage can go straight to these points as wounds. The precise mechanic may be just when all HP are consumed or may be a %  say over 50% of HP or may be a figure say like the old 50 HP save or die in 2e. Allow this number to be configurable by the DM to set lethality

1) All NPCs and creatures have a morale value and must make morale checks to remain in combat each round when they lose 20% or more of their HPs. (Slaughters to the last man are rare in any combat situation)

2) PC's are unconscious at 0 HP, and dead when they lose additional hp equal to their constitution. They automatically lose 1hp per round and 1 additional hp/rd for each hit they receive after going below 0 unless they are healed or treated.

3) Magic Users don't automatically gains new spells when they level up. They have to research them, have another MU give them the spell, or they have to steal the new spell.

4) Fighters must train and practice to become proficient with new weapons.

5) New Skills (and feats) must be learned, not earned.

6) XP is awarded for skills use, less XP if the skills challenge is failed.

7) Players have to describe in detail any attempts at combat, acrobatics, research, stealth, persuasion, trade, and diplomacy so the GM can properly determine which skills/feats or Combat styles are appropriate for the situation at hand.

8) The game world should contain multiple factions that use different currencies and standards. Yes this slows play somewhat, however the alternative breaks immersion as well as player focus.

9) Not every situation should be winnable for the players.

10) Players should be able to make up new character classes or archetypes in every game.

Having somewhat bastard players my main change would be more philosophic. Basically D&D-rules will be the observable rules in their universe and anything that seems unrealistic to them as players is completely natural to the characters. I.e: hitting a much higher leveled character with a sword will barely break the skin, even if he's naked (unsporting, aren't you?). The characters are free to have theories why this might happen. Probably chi. Or magic. Or both. Killing stuff and overcoming challenges really gives you more power, probably gods meddling. Improved Evasion? Probably done with mirrors.

I'd make levels and XP something that only protagonists and anagonists get. An npc librarian would learn stuff by reading and studying and never get to level up or learn to fight. The people chosen by the gods (probably) to level instead would use the regular rules.

Lots of spells like cure disease, raise dead, create food etc would only work well for the god-touched people that leveled up. This saves me lots of trouble when it comes to explaining why magic hasn't taken the place of technology.

I'd consider stealing the alignments from Stormbringer. There you have just Chaos versus Law (with Balance in the middle). Both Law and Chaos are probably evil (but often think they aren't). Even Balance has it's bad days.

I really like the idea of weapons that scale with user level. "This is my fathers sword" and all that. One might even level them based on their history... "This is the sword that struck Sauron and shattered, now reforged to take vengance". Sounds like it could make for cool plot-points.

I'd probably give fighters some spell-like abilities on high levels to even out things against magic-users; and possibly some buff for magic-users on low levels for good measure.

Most scrying, premonition and similar things I would drop. They are just annoying to me as a lazy GM.

Quote from: Vortigern;613685I really like the idea of weapons that scale with user level. "This is my fathers sword" and all that. One might even level them based on their history... "This is the sword that struck Sauron and shattered, now reforged to take vengance". Sounds like it could make for cool plot-points.

I'd probably give fighters some spell-like abilities on high levels to even out things against magic-users; and possibly some buff for magic-users on low levels for good measure.

In my heartbreaker I have been playing with the idea of Dooms, Boons, curses and pacts. These are the things that make the heroic fighters of legend 'special'.
Some occur as a result of battling with certain creatures, and the creature creation rules include the options of adding effects for unique higher level ones. So if you kill the Giant Scorpion Jurellax that comes with a curse/boon, like it's spirit infects you somehow which is rolled on a table or can be picked by the GM and tied directly to that creature.

Or in play you can choose to spend a couple level worth of xp (you spend XP as you level to take class abilities) to take a Doom and you roll on a table, might be the revelation on an ancient birthright or Divine provenance or whatever.

It's still very much in the "to be thought about" category and will be entirely optional enabling more mundane games to continue unaffected but it seems like a way to make higher level mundanes not just more effective, which is just half the issue, but also more interesting without relying on magical gear.

I am also looking at a way to scale items with level and am currently stuck with them giving bonuses as a % rather than a flat number. So a sword might give +40% to hit so if you have an attack of +5 you get +2 and if you have +10 you get +4. But its awkward and messy.
I am more prone to remove 'mundane' magical items altogether and introduce quality equipment to replace it. Then all magic items will be unique artefact like pieces and very rare possibly with a slight double edge to them based on curses and dooms again. So rather than a magical +1 sword you get a Fine Damascus steel +1 sword. If you find a magical item it will be Azarus the Flaming sword of the West, it will have a handful of abilities and a history and backstory. History, backstory and all stuff to be rolled on random tables or created by the GM of course.

If I had to explicitly change 10 things, I'd rather find something closer to what I want.

I'd like armor as damage reduction, some kind of active defense and a general toning down of magic (especially from 3e) but that would make it not D&D in my mind and I have games that are a lot better at not being D&D than D&D is.

Disadvantages (i.e. Negative feats) like in GURPS. UA introduced a bit of them with the "traits/flaws" system.

I forgot about negativer feats and armor as DR. Both are good in my opinion.

I like some of these ideas, but I'd like to note that the 3 Saves system screws over Wizards, and some other "High Save" types who are generally good with saving throws even if they have low HP.

Quote from: Silverlion;613956I like some of these ideas, but I'd like to note that the 3 Saves system screws over Wizards, and some other "High Save" types who are generally good with saving throws even if they have low HP.

Depends how you implement a 3 save system you don't have to lift it from 3e whole cloth you can decide that Wizards have higher saves then everyone or that wizards get an additional +2 to all saves versus spells no matter where they fall.

Personally I want to introduce a counter spell, basically allow a wizard to make a reflex check to blow a spell slot of same level or higher to counter an opponent's spell as it'ss cast. Or something.

hmmm...does paring the core back to core concepts count as a single choice?

Anyhow

strip it down, keeping wargame and boardgame play elements intact

add a uniform substructure for race, class, and spell building an underlying point system won't prevent all unbalances but it sure beats just making stuff up

give suggested attributes for monsters because sometimes it matters

scrap the spells of each level table for a lower total levels per day

weapon damage by size
 
hit dice by size

give a hit dice for level 0

Cut bonuses to +1 / 2 levels

huh...looks familiar somehow...actually I'd like to change the OGL so you are in breach if anything you release isn't compatible with the substructure and can then be sued for a bazzillion dollars...

Quote from: jibbajibba;613991Depends how you implement a 3 save system you don't have to lift it from 3e whole cloth you can decide that Wizards have higher saves then everyone or that wizards get an additional +2 to all saves versus spells no matter where they fall.

Personally I want to introduce a counter spell, basically allow a wizard to make a reflex check to blow a spell slot of same level or higher to counter an opponent's spell as it'ss cast. Or something.

Wizards should have the best save vs magic, at least vs wizard spells.
 I would go so far as to say a wizard should be able to attempt counterspelling without expending resources.

I'm pretty happy with D&D, so I would struggle to come up with ten changes. The ones that come to mind though...

Ascending AC
Get rid of the 3-18 spread and just note the bonuses
Limit stat bonuses from +1 to +3 and have no minuses
Have one 50/50 saving throw complimented by a relevant stat bonus
Include an extended skill check of three rolls
Give fighters cleave and power attack at 1st level

That's about it.

The big one for me would be to eliminate the d4 and d12 Hit Dice from the game.  All d4 Hit Die entries would bump up to a d6 and all d12 Hit Dice entries would be bumped down to a d10.  It's just a pet peeve; I can't stand the d4 Hit Die for some irrational reason.

Quote from: Drohem;614214The big one for me would be to eliminate the d4 and d12 Hit Dice from the game.  All d4 Hit Die entries would bump up to a d6 and all d12 Hit Dice entries would be bumped down to a d10.  It's just a pet peeve; I can't stand the d4 Hit Die for some irrational reason.

I hate d4s.

They are pointy and evil.

The d12 is fine though.




Should make that a Haiku.

Main one is for combat. One roll to hit and damage. Score 1 point of damage for each point above to hit number, and add a bonus from the weapon used up to it's max damage.

Example:

Thief uses a dagger, needs to roll over 15 to hit, gets a 20 (which let's say, explodes). Total roll is 31. 31-15 = 16 damage, plus 4 (max damage) from dagger.

If using a sword that would be 8 damage (swords max) and so on.

Instead of hit points going up, characters would have hit points at first level, and their luck points would go up. Luck can be used to increase or reduce rolls (stated before dice are rolled, or costs double luck after dice are rolled), reduce damage and so on. Always found it hard to get round the fact my Fighter had more hit points than a horse, a rhino, a giant and so on. This way, they don't, they are just luckier.

I would run the game 1e RAW, using the 10 most obscure and unused rules in the entire game.

1) All the Initiative rules.
2) All the spells.
3) Weapon vs. AC
4) Save or Die.
5) Energy Drain
6) Unrestricted Spell Research.
7) No re-rolls if you roll 1 on Hit Dice
8) All rules from Unearthed Arcana and the Survival Guides
9) Death at 0 hp or less.
10) Move OR action during a combat round.

Oh wait.  I'm doing that already.

Quote from: Blackhand;614224I would run the game 1e RAW, using the 10 most obscure and unused rules in the entire game.

1) All the Initiative rules.
2) All the spells.
3) Weapon vs. AC
4) Save or Die.
5) Energy Drain
6) Unrestricted Spell Research.
7) No re-rolls if you roll 1 on Hit Dice
8) All rules from Unearthed Arcana and the Survival Guides
9) Death at 0 hp or less.
10) Move OR action during a combat round.

Oh wait.  I'm doing that already.

Don't forget spell components.

Quote from: Bill;614227Don't forget spell components.

GRRAAAH!  Missed that one.  That would make it 11, though.

Could also add:  Level Training and XP blocking at xp for sufficient level.

Quote from: Blackhand;614228GRRAAAH!  Missed that one.  That would make it 11, though.

Could also add:  Level Training and XP blocking at xp for sufficient level.

#7 can make a hardened Fighter cry :)


Monks and Druids must defeat a higher level npc or never gain more levels again.

For my Pathfinder games, I would like:

1. Sanity mechanics, because I love horror in fantasy.

2. Exploding damage dice for attacks because I like combat to be grim and quick.

3. Escalation attack and damage modifiers similar to 13th Age because I want to speed up combat.

4. Revise economics to where everything is on the silver standard and have 100 x = 1 y instead of 10 x = 1 y. It allows magic items that cost hundreds of thousands of gp to be priced in silver, but when converted to platinum pieces, only a few hundred is needed and makes more sense for carrying around coins. It also adds realism that the common peasant only sees mostly copper coins for payment and maybe a few silver coins (if ever) in their lifetime. Gold and platinum are the province of merchant princes and the nobility. Monster hoards are in silver and some gold.

5. Rules for making magic dangerous and unstable.

6. Rules for having to perform rituals and rites.

7. Optional rules to replace the need for magic item acquisition. For example, lower monster AC's and resistances so that your characters won't need to get a whole bunch of doodah's in order to effectively fight against them.

8. Rules for dominion expansion and exploration.

That's all I can think of for now.

If you want to see the rules I would add, you'll have to buy Arrows of Indra.

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