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QuoteWFRP 3
A coupe of weeks ago, our regular roleplaying group was privileged enough to playtest 3rd Edition Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. The guys from Fantasy Flight Games were over at Games Workshop HQ, and Jay Little very kindly did a show and tell for us over at Alessio Cavatore's house, where we saw how much the game has changed from its previous incarnation. Our gaming group has been going for some time and we were all interested to see what was new with WFRP, since we'd playtested the previous edition also. It was in interesting evening, and the game was very different to anything I've played before, with a lot of table space taken up by character sheets, action and ability cards, dice etc. It felt like a strange hybrid of board game and roleplaying game at first, but once the notions of the new mechanics took hold, it felt very natural. Likewise, the new dice pool system felt odd at first, but once we'd rolled a few dice it immediately became very intuitive, which is surely the holy grail of any roleplaying system.

By the time we'd despatched the goblins and rescued the coachman, we didn't have much time left to play out the more interpersonal encounters of the intro game, but we'd already gotten our heads around the system and were already looking to develop our characters – which is a good sign in any playtest. Overall, I really liked the changes to the game, and it makes a nice change from sitting with my Players Handbook and a grubby character sheet. I'm liking what Jay has done with the game, and there's a clear desire to make it fit properly with the Warhammer World, where a lot of the previous edition's books, with the best will in the world, just didn't.

My first reaction is horror.  But this is very little info to go on, so I'm trying to contain myself.

RPGPundit

Given the issues with the BI playtest (read as "Simon deleting anything that pointed out flaws in the mechanics), like my and Mark McIntire's posts about the flaws with the critical system....

It's not a bad Idea to revise. I just wonder if TEW will work with it...

QuoteOur gaming group has been going for some time and we were all interested to see what was new with WFRP, since we’d playtested the previous edition also. It was in interesting evening, and the game was very different to anything I’ve played before, with a lot of table space taken up by character sheets, action and ability cards, dice etc. It felt like a strange hybrid of board game and roleplaying game at first, but once the notions of the new mechanics took hold, it felt very natural. Likewise, the new dice pool system felt odd at first, but once we’d rolled a few dice it immediately became very intuitive, which is surely the holy grail of any roleplaying system.

Are you sure this isn't some April 1st prank? *blink*

Quote from: RPGPundit;312390My first reaction is horror.  But this is very little info to go on, so I'm trying to contain myself.

RPGPundit

But then horror is how you usually react to change.

Its not surprising.   Warhammer RPG and Warhammer Battles have never been the same tone and the setting was different in subtle, but important ways.   Mordheim was closer to the RPG than the Battle game which is definitely High to Super-High Fantasy.

So now they are going to try a RPG that emulates the world of the Battle game.  My hope is that your PC can have lots of minions easily, AKA be able to essentially play a warband from the minis game.

Quote from: RPGPundit;312390I'm trying to contain myself.

Now there's a first!

I too feel horror. First of all, the second edition is, with damn few caveats, perfect.  One of those caveats is that perfection is not truly attainable in something as subjective as an RPG.    

With that said, let me highlight my issues, and why I'm not holding back on the horror.

QuoteWFRP 3
A coupe of weeks ago, our regular roleplaying group was privileged enough to playtest 3rd Edition Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. The guys from Fantasy Flight Games were over at Games Workshop HQ, and Jay Little very kindly did a show and tell for us over at Alessio Cavatore's house, where we saw how much the game has changed from its previous incarnation. Our gaming group has been going for some time and we were all interested to see what was new with WFRP, since we'd playtested the previous edition also. It was in interesting evening, and the game was very different to anything I've played before, with a lot of table space taken up by character sheets, action and ability cards, dice etc. It felt like a strange hybrid of board game and roleplaying game at first, but once the notions of the new mechanics took hold, it felt very natural. Likewise, the new dice pool system felt odd at first, but once we'd rolled a few dice it immediately became very intuitive, which is surely the holy grail of any roleplaying system.

By the time we'd despatched the goblins and rescued the coachman, we didn't have much time left to play out the more interpersonal encounters of the intro game, but we'd already gotten our heads around the system and were already looking to develop our characters – which is a good sign in any playtest. Overall, I really liked the changes to the game, and it makes a nice change from sitting with my Players Handbook and a grubby character sheet. I'm liking what Jay has done with the game, and there's a clear desire to make it fit properly with the Warhammer World, where a lot of the previous edition's books, with the best will in the world, just didn't.

Now let me parse it a little more finely:

the game was very different to anything  First of all, change for its own sake is not an admirable goal. Then too, I grow increasingly weary of people trying to re-invent games. Improve them? Sure, improve away, but re-inventions are usually all about missing the fucking point.

action and ability cards,  Oh, great. Its fourth fucking edition D&D!  I know, I know: Some people like it. I'm more than cool with that.  What I DO NOT stay cool with is some fucking borg like assimilation of all other RPGs on the fucking market.

strange hybrid of board game and roleplaying game You know what? I've played 'board game RPGs'... and you know what I learned?  They aren't fucking RPGs. They are board games with some set dressing. Utterly absent is any really freedom to leave the confines of the board and just, I dunno... seduce the dragon instead of fighting it.

the new dice pool system Seen it, played it. Talk about clunk factor. Combine it with the 4e connection and what we've got is "D&D of Darkness:the suckitude"

the holy grail of any roleplaying system. So, the new design team is either made of martyred saints or they all die horribly failing miserably because they are only human.  Wonderful. Do you even know what the quest for the holy grail IS?  

it makes a nice change from sitting with my Players Handbook and a grubby character sheet  The Fuck?!  So does sitting down at a computer, but that doesn't make WoW a step up from old school RPGs, just different.  Hey? You know what else makes a nice change from a book and a character sheet?  Going to a movie!  Maybe you should just fucking FILM your warhammer fantasy game for us!!! Won't that be... swell.

make it fit properly with the Warhammer World, where a lot of the previous edition's books, with the best will in the world, just didn't.

And the capstone on a post filled with stupid shit disguised as hype.  One thing I've learned over the ages is that once a product leaves the hands of the creater it is no longer theirs to decide what the consumer actually DOES with it... and this is only good and proper.  Further, there has long been a standing ideological war between HOW WFRP is supposed to play out, and two of the major 'sides' are both, essentially, right.  Now, it may seem like a good idea for a designer to support a POV he personally believes in, but its a shitty decision from a business standpoint (alienating a good chunk of your base) and it leads to shitty designs that fail to please even the people you are, obstensibly, siding with!

In other words, this is the shit frosting on a rotten cake.


Horror indeed.

-Spike, going all grognardy and bitter who will now quit gaming for all time to protest.

Seriously.  Why doesn't anyone believe him?

QuoteLikewise, the new dice pool system felt odd at first, but once we’d rolled a few dice it immediately became very intuitive, which is surely the holy grail of any roleplaying system.

I now live a life in which each instant I am unsettled by the idea of dice pools in WHFRP.

What was wrong with Advanced Heroquest?

EDIT: OTOH, there´d be absolutely no need for a new edtion if they didn´t actually change everything.

I know people love WHFRP but it was much better at aping a fantasy version of Adventures of a Simpleton than Warhammer Fantasy. If the new edition of WHFRP is anything like the much more suitable WHQ, it will be good (for me, at least).

Tangal, what was wrong with Advanced Heroquest?

Quote from: Settembrini;312409What was wrong with Advanced Heroquest?

It wasn't as cool as Warhammer Quest.

But AH was very fun, just not as gonzo great as WHQ.

Quote from: The Worid;312407I now live a life in which each instant I am unsettled by the idea of dice pools in WHFRP.

Dice pools?! Oh, no!

I hope that I am not induced to drive over there.

Seems a bit early for a big new edition to me.  I guess everyone is new edition happy.

I don't get the point of this big change, though.  From a financial POV, I mean - what's the upside here?  You can't out-D&D D&D, you've made the game even less compatible with your 40K RPG line, and you've alienated your former fans without having enough market share to really bring in many new ones.

I guess the point is to appeal to Warhammer Fantasy Battles players, but I never got the impression they were that popular in the grand scheme of things.  I've always seen 40K being far, far more popular among minis gamers (and half of them seem to have stopped now to play that collectible Monsters thing).

I don't understand why they don't just focus on making WFRP 2e and Dark Heresy as compatible with each other as possible. They have a perfectly playable system there. If I had my way, I'd make Dark Heresy more compatible with WFRP 2e, and continue with both lines, though I'd want to put a Perception and Corruption stat in WFRP 2e.