Quote from: Haffrung;519996WFRP 3 is doing pretty well, by all accounts. Better than WFRP 2, certainly. Can you name some non-D&D RPGs that are doing better?

Maybe in Painthuffer Land.

Quote from: Haffrung;519996WFRP 3 is doing pretty well, by all accounts. Better than WFRP 2, certainly. Can you name some non-D&D RPGs that are doing better?

The 40k games outsell it, from the looks of things.

QuoteAs for the boardgame stuff, what, in your playing experience, do you find boardgamey about WFRP 3?

Speaking only for myself, I don't find that 3e plays like a boardgame, but rather that it has a set-up too close to FFG's boardgames with the chits, trackers, and stand-up figures.  The problems this poses for me are: too much space is taken up at the table, the cost is exorbitant for less actual gaming material, and it's the least portable Warhammer FRP game.

QuoteAnd there's nothing especially storygamey about WFRP 3. In fact, it was WFRP 2 that gave us fate points, a pretty blatant narrative mechanic. But maybe Black Industry was infiltrated with Forgists as well, eh?

Fate points started with 1e, actually.

Quote from: misterguignol;519999The 40k games outsell it, from the looks of things.


Speaking only for myself, I don't find that 3e plays like a boardgame, but rather that it has a set-up too close to FFG's boardgames with the chits, trackers, and stand-up figures.  The problems this poses for me are: too much space is taken up at the table, the cost is exorbitant for less actual gaming material, and it's the least portable Warhammer FRP game.


Fate points started with 1e, actually.

TL;DR: WFRP 1e/2e do all things that WFRP 3 do, and much better, far cheaper.

Quote from: Haffrung;519996WFRP 3 is doing pretty well, by all accounts.

By whose accounts? The same people who told you 4e D&D was a smashing success?

Quote from: misterguignol;519999The problems this poses for me are: too much space is taken up at the table, the cost is exorbitant for less actual gaming material, and it's the least portable Warhammer FRP game.

It doesn't take up nearly as much room as very popular FFG games such as Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium, or Descent. And it's not much more expensive than any of those games either.

Given the growing popularity and health of the boardgaming market they've cultivated (all those games have sold 30,000 to 50,000 copies), I can understand that FFG doesn't consider a small footprint, portability, and <$50 price point to be especially important design and market considerations.

Quote from: misterguignol;519999Fate points started with 1e, actually.

Ah, so the Forge taint began way back with Games Workshop.

Quote from: Benoist;520014By whose accounts? The same people who told you 4e D&D was a smashing success?

By whose account is the game failing, as you implied in the post I cited?

Quote from: Haffrung;520019It doesn't take up nearly as much room as very popular FFG games such as Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium, or Descent. And it's not much more expensive than any of those games either.

And yet you still get less gameable content than you did with the old hardback, it's more expensive than ever, and it takes up more room than the average rpg because of all the widgets.

Surely you can see that comparing an RPG against Arkham Horror is damning with faint praise?  It's like saying, "Well, it doesn't take up your WHOLE kitchen table...just half!"

QuoteGiven the growing popularity and health of the boardgaming market they've cultivated (all those games have sold 30,000 to 50,000 copies), I can understand that FFG doesn't consider a small footprint, portability, and <$50 price point to be especially important design and market considerations.

They might not, but I consider paying that much for less of a game I used to get to be a turn-off as a customer.  Surely that isn't hard to understand?

Call me when you have an actual answer, Haff.

Except that board games are quite different then RPGs. For RPGs, the need for little materials other then, by dire necessity, pen and sheet of paper, was always a major good factor.

Also - board games, by merit of board alone, usually will need certain amount of space anyway.

Not to mention that board games & RPGs overlap much less then it'd seem.

Another postcard from Painthuffing Land at 11.

Quote from: Haffrung;520019It doesn't take up nearly as much room as very popular FFG games such as Arkham Horror, Twilight Imperium, or Descent. And it's not much more expensive than any of those games either.

Given the growing popularity and health of the boardgaming market they've cultivated (all those games have sold 30,000 to 50,000 copies), I can understand that FFG doesn't consider a small footprint, portability, and <$50 price point to be especially important design and market considerations.



Ah, so the Forge taint began way back with Games Workshop.

The Forge people travelled back in time and tried to win the war influencing Gary Gygax, but they failed because the wargamers killed them first. So they made another attempt with GW in Britain, of course

Quote from: Imperator;520029The Forge people travelled back in time and tried to win the war influencing Gary Gygax, but they failed because the wargamers killed them first. So they made another attempt with GW in Britain, of course

That reminds me of some film's plot...Time Cop?

Quote from: Benoist;520023Call me when you have an actual answer, Haff.

You made the assertion that the Enemy Within is proof that WFRP 3 is a failure. So how about you go first?

Quote from: Haffrung;520031You made the assertion that the Enemy Within is proof that WFRP 3 is a failure. So how about you go first?

I'm sorry I gave you the impression I gave a fuck about this exchange.

Quote from: Imperator;520029The Forge people travelled back in time and tried to win the war influencing Gary Gygax, but they failed because the wargamers killed them first. So they made another attempt with GW in Britain, of course

Come with me if you want to game.

Quote from: Benoist;520034I'm sorry I gave you the impression I gave a fuck about this exchange.

You have been one of the - if not the - most vocal person in this thread who said Enemy Within is going to "suck". Moreover, you were the one to say that this product will prove that "inserting story-bullshit, board-game crap and the like into the medium" sc. Warhammer RPG will prove "beyond a shadow of doubt" that this all "just leads to complete failure."

Haffrung came really late to the party and admittedly made the mistake of putting a negation sign on one of your statements, by challenging you on the basis of you calling the system a 'failure'. Maybe he misread you in that you didn't mean commercial failure, I don't know.

In any case, to rebounce the question on the questioner and then say you don't "give a fuck" about the entire exchange?

I think we can expect better of you.