I started to post this as a specific question about Canada in the Rose County thread but then decided to move it to its own, so not to drag that one off into another direction.
The Western is predominantly an American thing, but the same themes of exploration, settling new areas, lawless boom towns and a people motivated by a fast buck are often present elsewhere just in a different time and place. Canada, Australia, Alaska and South America each had a gold rush in the later 19th century / early 20th century which led to similar conditions as the American West after the US Civil War.
The time period is not of particular importance as even in the US there were places where the "old west" lived well into the 20th Century, to the point it is not impossible to have cowboys and bootleggers mingling.
Quigley down under is probably being one of the better film examples of a what I'm talking about. Despite being set in Australia it is definitely still a western. The later portion of Butch Cassidy & the Sundance kid after they go to Bolivia is another example. The Clint Eastwood movie Joe Kid is an example of a western towards the end of the traditional period, being set around 1900.
Not nearly so well known (and as I recall really only watchable because of Lee Marvin and Charles Bronson) Death Hunt, which is set in the Canadian frontier around 1930 has a western feel and fits both the out of time and out of place criteria.
The hunt for Pancho Villa and the ensuing Punitive expedition occurred in 1916, involved the US military trucks and aircraft but it has many western elements, as that part of the US was still largely as it had been in the 1880s.
Outland with Sean Connery is of course basically a western in space, but I'm looking more for historical, or at least pseudo historical references, not just the themes. Other times and places where a western could be set, perhaps a campaign continues into that time line (if set later than most) or characters could come from or visit those places and maintain the same kind of vibe to the campaign.
A ton of Westerns were filmed in Spain and Italy, but I'm not aware of either historically having a period that really resembles the Western in the US form. Africa maintaining a strong colonial presence seems to maintain more of a Victorian feel, so while certainly a place to go with an open frontier it doesn't really feel western to me, but I could be wrong.
Just kind of rambling, but curious about other times and places for a western campaign films, real history, books (gasp) etc.
Quote from: Toadmaster;1019265I started to post this as a specific question about Canada in the Rose County thread but then decided to move it to its own, so not to drag that one off into another direction.
The Western is predominantly an American thing, but the same themes of exploration, settling new areas, lawless boom towns and a people motivated by a fast buck are often present elsewhere just in a different time and place. Canada, Australia, Alaska and South America each had a gold rush in the later 19th century / early 20th century which led to similar conditions as the American West after the US Civil War.
The time period is not of particular importance as even in the US there were places where the "old west" lived well into the 20th Century, to the point it is not impossible to have cowboys and bootleggers mingling.
Quigley down under is probably being one of the better film examples of a what I'm talking about. Despite being set in Australia it is definitely still a western. The later portion of Butch Cassidy & the Sundance kid after they go to Bolivia is another example. The Clint Eastwood movie Joe Kid is an example of a western towards the end of the traditional period, being set around 1900.
Not nearly so well known (and as I recall really only watchable because of Lee Marvin and Charles Bronson) Death Hunt, which is set in the Canadian frontier around 1930 has a western feel and fits both the out of time and out of place criteria.
The hunt for Pancho Villa and the ensuing Punitive expedition occurred in 1916, involved the US military trucks and aircraft but it has many western elements, as that part of the US was still largely as it had been in the 1880s.
Outland with Sean Connery is of course basically a western in space, but I'm looking more for historical, or at least pseudo historical references, not just the themes. Other times and places where a western could be set, perhaps a campaign continues into that time line (if set later than most) or characters could come from or visit those places and maintain the same kind of vibe to the campaign.
A ton of Westerns were filmed in Spain and Italy, but I'm not aware of either historically having a period that really resembles the Western in the US form. Africa maintaining a strong colonial presence seems to maintain more of a Victorian feel, so while certainly a place to go with an open frontier it doesn't really feel western to me, but I could be wrong.
Just kind of rambling, but curious about other times and places for a western campaign films, real history, books (gasp) etc.
South America - Particularly Patagonia (see the ending of Butch and Sundance), would seem to work particularly well.
I'm sure you could do a game with at least some western themes in 19th century Russia or Central Asia.
A lot of the Spanish and Italian Westerns are actually set in Mexico, although rarely actually filmed there.
Blazing Saddles. Modern Burbank.
Quote from: Voros;1019288A lot of the Spanish and Italian Westerns are actually set in Mexico, although rarely actually filmed there.
Yeah, I didn't mention Mexico, while distinct from the US I overlooked it since it is so much a part of traditional western lore. Loads of westerns were set there whether filmed on location, or somewhere in the US, Spain or Italy. Thank you for pointing that out, it was an oversight on my part and Mexico definitely has some unique characteristics, and that brings in a French connection to a western game as well.
Chester Brown's Louis Riel comic is a great intro to Riel, Dumont and the Red River Rebellion. The Canadian poet and anarchist George Woodcock wrote a good bio on Gabriel Dumont, Riel's Metis General, who ended up in Buffalo Bill's show later in life.
Gunbus drags a pair of cowboys into World War One aeroplane battle over Europe.
Quote from: Voros;1019288A lot of the Spanish and Italian Westerns are actually set in Mexico, although rarely actually filmed there.
Generally filmed in Andalusia due to the basic superficial resemblance to the American Southwest and northern Mexico , where they were mostly set.
Quote from: Toadmaster;1019294Yeah, I didn't mention Mexico, while distinct from the US...
Not so distinct at the time, the cultures overlapped the border which was arbitrary and barely observed by anyone living there.
Altman's McCabe and Ms. Miller is set in the Pacific Northwest, which although in the US (actually shot in Canada) feels significantly different from most other Westerns. Other snowy Westerns are the excellent Day of the Outlaw and The Great Silence.
Quote from: Dumarest;1019316Not so distinct at the time, the cultures overlapped the border which was arbitrary and barely observed by anyone living there.
and still somewhat true in places. The border is pretty vague in some of the less populated areas. With all the talk of illegal immigration many don't have a clue how much legitimate traffic there is, particularly in places like Nogales or Douglas, AZ that are intertwined with Nogales and Agua Prieta Sonora, or El Paso, TX and Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua. If you are in San Diego, then I'm sure you see some of the same where sometimes looking at the license plates in the local Walmart parking lot can make you question which side of the border you are on. :)
When I worked in Arizona, there were times in the beginning where I wasn't entirely sure I hadn't made a wrong turn and crossed the border. Coming from crowded California there was no way the US could have places so remote.
There was one little town (basically a ghost town, although maybe still a few residents), I think Lochiel, AZ that was literally a stones throw from the border. The first time I was there I was sure I had just driven into the set from of A Fistful of Dollars. Some of those places are timeless. Sorry meandering. :o
Quote from: Toadmaster;1019347and still somewhat true in places. The border is pretty vague in some of the less populated areas. With all the talk of illegal immigration many don't have a clue how much legitimate traffic there is, particularly in places like Nogales or Douglas, AZ that are intertwined with Nogales and Agua Prieta Sonora, or El Paso, TX and Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua. If you are in San Diego, then I'm sure you see some of the same where sometimes looking at the license plates in the local Walmart parking lot can make you question which side of the border you are on. :)
When I worked in Arizona, there were times in the beginning where I wasn't entirely sure I hadn't made a wrong turn and crossed the border. Coming from crowded California there was no way the US could have places so remote.
There was one little town (basically a ghost town, although maybe still a few residents), I think Lochiel, AZ that was literally a stones throw from the border. The first time I was there I was sure I had just driven into the set from of A Fistful of Dollars. Some of those places are timeless. Sorry meandering. :o
So true. I like meandering...we have a lot of cross-border people and business here.
There's still a law on the books here in Calgary about businesses having to provide a hitching post and water for horses, and in the older areas of town you can still see those hitching posts. I remember in the 80s when some of the newer neighbourhoods were still ranches and farms, running into a classmate who came into town to shop on horseback.
Awesome you've brought up this topic!
About a week ago, I watched a movie called The Stolen (I had never heard of it; only watched it on the strong recommendation from a friend) and I have to admit, it was actually quite good. Came out in 2017 and the setting is 1860's/1870's in New Zealand.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1680140/
In every sense of the word, it's an excellent Western but it's even better (from my American point of view) because they have a Maori warrior ending up being a vital character in the drama. It was written, filmed, and produced by New Zealanders so I presume they were accurate in the particulars at any rate.
I highly recommend it by the way for anyone interested in the Western genre.
ETA: Oh, and I loved Death Hunt as mentioned upthread. I still watch it occasionally as a matter of fact. Straightforward plot and easy on the brain, it's just a classic in the genre.
Quote from: CausticJedi;1019418ETA: Oh, and I loved Death Hunt as mentioned upthread. I still watch it occasionally as a matter of fact. Straightforward plot and easy on the brain, it's just a classic in the genre.
I saw it years ago and don't recall much of it but can you ever really go wrong with Charles Bronson or Lee Marvin, and it has both. The synopsis at Wikipedia comes across as a pretty weak effort, good to hear it is better than reading it sounds.
I'll keep an eye on Netflicks for The Stolen.
The Chant of Jimmy Blacksmith is a great Australian film set at the turn of the century.
I'd think anywhere the grasp of the people is ahead of the capacity of the government to fully and completely control the area, one would have a "western," sort of place.
Having said that, could imagine that the push of Russia/Soviet Union eastward toward the siberian regions near China back in the day could be such an environment.
Hunh. Now that I write that, the more I'm keen to know more about that time/place too.
Quote from: CausticJedi;1019418ETA: Oh, and I loved Death Hunt as mentioned upthread. I still watch it occasionally as a matter of fact. Straightforward plot and easy on the brain, it's just a classic in the genre.
As a historical footnote,
Death Hunt has a few scenes with a bush pilot attempting to chase Bronson down. I won't post any spoilers, but suffice to say that there was a real pilot dispatched in the hunt and he acted very differently from the one portrayed in the movie. In real life he was also Wilfrid May, the Canadian pilot being chased by Baron Manfred von Richthofen when he flew too low to the ground and was killed in 1918.
Quote from: DMK;1019527As a historical footnote, Death Hunt has a few scenes with a bush pilot attempting to chase Bronson down. I won't post any spoilers, but suffice to say that there was a real pilot dispatched in the hunt and he acted very differently from the one portrayed in the movie. In real life he was also Wilfrid May, the Canadian pilot being chased by Baron Manfred von Richthofen when he flew too low to the ground and was killed in 1918.
Yes, I had heard something about that years ago; the movie was supposedly based on a true story but I'm too lazy at the moment to do any googling on it.
Quote from: Danger;1019517I'd think anywhere the grasp of the people is ahead of the capacity of the government to fully and completely control the area, one would have a "western," sort of place.
Having said that, could imagine that the push of Russia/Soviet Union eastward toward the siberian regions near China back in the day could be such an environment.
Hunh. Now that I write that, the more I'm keen to know more about that time/place too.
There's a Korean "Western" set in 1920s Manchuria:
[video=youtube;6Tk80iXCspM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tk80iXCspM[/youtube]
The remote, mountainous regions of Europe in the 19th and 20th century can also have a somewhat "Western" feeling, with state authority far away, powerful local land barons, outlaws and vigilantism.
[video=youtube;-WIhU4-hcv0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WIhU4-hcv0[/youtube]
'The Good, The Bad, The Weird' is a lot of fun - recommended!
I ran a couple of games set in a fictional Central American country in around 1925. An old American lawman/gunfighter, a female Mexican (disillusioned) revolutionary, and a retired long-service USMC sergeant, teamed-up to find an American industrialist's kidnapped daughter. I called it No Country for Expendable Old Bastards.
I've long wanted to run a game of Australian bushrangers in the 1850s/60s.
The Fraser Canyon Gold Rush and Klondike Gold Rush obviously has some very Western vibes to it. Large parts of Alberta and Peace River District are very much ranch land and home to large, long running rodeos. There's a fair bit of ranching all along the Fraser River which combined with the elevations and drop offs makes for stunning imagery. Of course there would have been lots of "trouble" with Native populations as they're dispersed all throughout these regions due to the Treaty system.
One commonly overlooked Western trope for Canada is the American border and the RCMP. There were several skirmishes with American bandits, settlers, and bootleggers up until the 1930's. Most of my ancestors came to Canada as a result of the government trying to settle Canadians along the border to prevent the prairies from being annexed.
To continue in the more modern, No Country for Old Men oil based Western you have the oil fields around Calgary for shenanigans.
Quote from: Krimson;1019377There's still a law on the books here in Calgary about businesses having to provide a hitching post and water for horses, and in the older areas of town you can still see those hitching posts. I remember in the 80s when some of the newer neighbourhoods were still ranches and farms, running into a classmate who came into town to shop on horseback.
Horse and Carriage on the streets was still a common sight up untll I had to move in the mid 90s in my home town. Probably still is as theres a large Ahmish community in the surrounding areas.
Yeah, the Yukon gold rush was pretty much a part of the "wild west" to the point that it wouldn't really be an 'alternate' setting.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1020255Yeah, the Yukon gold rush was pretty much a part of the "wild west" to the point that it wouldn't really be an 'alternate' setting.
Hmm, it's in the West, it's the same era, and it's included in my books on the Old West, so yeah, I don't know who considers that a different time and place for a Western. It's just a variation of the Western genre.
The Klondike Gold Rush could be a fun alternative to the Southwest if you're seeking a break from dusty trails and Apaches.
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Quote from: Gruntfuttock;1019596'The Good, The Bad, The Weird' is a lot of fun - recommended!
Definitely. (My icon is from that movie, incidentally.) On a similar note, there are some classic Western-esque movies set in Japan: like Seven Samurai and Yojimbo. Seven Samurai was the basis for The Magnificent Seven, for those who don't know.
I think especially in the early 20th century, Africa could easily be the setting for some Western-style action. Think Casablanca and Raiders of the Lost Ark, but without the Nazis.
Quote from: Gruntfuttock;1019596I ran a couple of games set in a fictional Central American country in around 1925. An old American lawman/gunfighter, a female Mexican (disillusioned) revolutionary, and a retired long-service USMC sergeant, teamed-up to find an American industrialist's kidnapped daughter. I called it No Country for Expendable Old Bastards.
Sounds cool.
Quote from: jhkim;1020369Seven Samurai was the basis for The Magnificent Seven, for those who don't know.
Except, of course, that it wasn't, although it gets bandied about that it was.
Edit: I was thinking of the wrong film, you are right. Seven Samurai is better, though.
Would western-comedy be considered alt-western?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1020711Would western-comedy be considered alt-western?
I would say no.
Three Amigos is a comedy but it's still a Western. Take out the jokes and it's a slight variation on
The Magnificent Seven.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1020711Would western-comedy be considered alt-western?
I couldn't say alt because quite a few movies with Clint Eastwood had comedy elements. That said, I would totally classify the war movie Kelly's Heroes as alt-western, because it pretty much was.
Last Man Standing (1996) with Bruce Willis and Christopher Walken. Mixes gunslingers and gangsters in a Prohbition era old west town. I can't recall if it was good or bad.
Quote from: Aglondir;1020812Last Man Standing (1996) with Tom Hanks and Christopher Walken. Mixes gunslingers and gangsters in a Prohbition era old west town. I can't recall if it was good or bad.
Never even heard of that one.
Quote from: Aglondir;1020812Last Man Standing (1996) with Tom Hanks and Christopher Walken. Mixes gunslingers and gangsters in a Prohbition era old west town. I can't recall if it was good or bad.
You mean Bruce Willis? Not Tom Hanks. But yeah, it was based off of Akira Kurosawa's Yojimbo. I personally thought it was pretty good, but the original was far, far better.
Maybe that Kurosawa series of movies would also count according to the OP, now that it's been brought up.
Quote from: Aglondir;1020812Last Man Standing (1996) with Tom Hanks and Christopher Walken. Mixes gunslingers and gangsters in a Prohbition era old west town. I can't recall if it was good or bad.
Last Man Standing is with Bruce Willis - It's a remake of Yojimbo basically.
Road to Perdition is the Tom Hanks Prohibition-Era movie.
Edit: Ninja'd by Mace Windu :D
Okay, that Last Man Standing I've heard of. Wasn't Karina Lombard in it? Haven't seen it. Got bad reviews at the time. Is it as good as Hudson Hawk?
Quote from: CRKrueger;1020824Last Man Standing is with Bruce Willis - It's a remake of Yojimbo basically.
Road to Perdition is the Tom Hanks Prohibition-Era movie.
Yup, Willis. I got the two confused. Corrected the post.
Quote from: DumarestIs it as good as Hudson Hawk?
Nothing is as good as Hudson Hawk!
Quote from: Dumarest;1020828Okay, that Last Man Standing I've heard of. Wasn't Karina Lombard in it? Haven't seen it. Got bad reviews at the time. Is it as good as Hudson Hawk?
Oh, no. Not as good, though it's a well-done twist on the standard western/action adventure movie IMO.
Theres also the apparently short lived Bronchosaurus Rex, whish was cowboys and dinosaurs on an alien planet.
And the Tyranosaurus Tex and Big Lizzie mini adventures in Dragon and Space Gamer respectively for Boot Hill and Western.
Quote from: Krimson;1020769I couldn't say alt because quite a few movies with Clint Eastwood had comedy elements. That said, I would totally classify the war movie Kelly's Heroes as alt-western, because it pretty much was.
Yeah, it's easy to forget, given his modern image, that Eastwood starred in comedy-westerns.
Some historians have drawn analogies between the northern and westward expansion of China in the 17th and 18th Centuries and the westward expansion of the US. In both cases, a powerful, urbanized and organized state expanding into areas dominated by nomadic or semi-nomadic peoples of very different ethnicities, sometimes to the point of wiping out the latter.
You can also find (journalistic) articles talking about present-day western China (e.g., Xinjiang) being a "wild west", with Han Chinese flooding in to exploit minerals and clamping down on restless natives, e.g.:
http://theweek.com/articles/703698/chinas-wild-west
A Japanese analogy might be the conquest/assimilation of Hokkaido in the 18th and 19th Centuries (where desire for control of gold mines was one of the motivating factors). I haven't seen it, but there was a recent Japanese remake of the Clint Eastwood Western Unforgiven, set in 1880s Hokkaido (which lets you mix six-guns and katanas, if that appeals to you):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaoYoXdBZLc
and there is also I believe the Japanese movie Yojimbo which has either a cowboy mercenary or just someone with a pistol. Havent seen it in a loooong time.
Post-apocalyptic games seem to feel very Western to me.
Quote from: Keysh;1022231(which lets you mix six-guns and katanas, if that appeals to you):
a) That sounds AWESOME!
b) Welcome to theRPGsite!!
Quote from: Keysh;1022231Some historians have drawn analogies between the northern and westward expansion of China in the 17th and 18th Centuries and the westward expansion of the US. In both cases, a powerful, urbanized and organized state expanding into areas dominated by nomadic or semi-nomadic peoples of very different ethnicities, sometimes to the point of wiping out the latter.
Though with a very different relationship with those nomadic peoples - since they were a known quantity and there were times historically when those same peoples had wiped out large groups of the former.
Quote from: Omega;1022338and there is also I believe the Japanese movie Yojimbo which has either a cowboy mercenary or just someone with a pistol. Havent seen it in a loooong time.
It's the latter -- about halfway through the movie, one of the main bad guys returns to the village from a visit to the big city with a new toy: a Western pistol.
Of course,
Yojimbo was the inspiration for the first Sergio Leone spaghetti Western:
A Fistful of Dollars, with Clint Eastwood playing the Toshiro Mifune role. (I remember reading an interview with Eastwood in which he mentioned going to see Yojimbo in a cinema in L.A., and thinking afterwards that the story would work pretty well in an Old West setting. And then a year or two later he gets a casting call for
A Fistful of Dollars...)
Quote from: Spinachcat;1022483a) That sounds AWESOME!
b) Welcome to theRPGsite!!
a) As Omega pointed out, there's a (single) sixgun in
Yojimbo. There's also the example of the English-language Japanese film
Sukiyaki Western Django, which is a weird mash-up of traditional samurai mythos (
Tale of the Heike) and a Western, with some Shakespeare references and a (terrible!) cameo by Quentin Tarentino thrown in for good measure. More sixguns (and Gatling guns) than katanas, though there are definitely some of the latter. Google for the trailer if you haven't seen it...
b) Thanks!
The movie The Wild Bunch takes place in 1913 and deals with aging outlaws trying to find their place in a world where cowboys are a dying breed. Much of it takes place in Mexico.
Quote from: Keysh;1022707There's also the example of the English-language Japanese film Sukiyaki Western Django, which is a weird mash-up of traditional samurai mythos (Tale of the Heike) and a Western, with some Shakespeare references and a (terrible!) cameo by Quentin Tarentino thrown in for good measure. More sixguns (and Gatling guns) than katanas, though there are definitely some of the latter. Google for the trailer if you haven't seen it...
Why have I not heard of this until now? I need to watch this. Soon.
Quote from: Keysh;1022231Some historians have drawn analogies between the northern and westward expansion of China in the 17th and 18th Centuries and the westward expansion of the US. In both cases, a powerful, urbanized and organized state expanding into areas dominated by nomadic or semi-nomadic peoples of very different ethnicities, sometimes to the point of wiping out the latter.
You can also find (journalistic) articles talking about present-day western China (e.g., Xinjiang) being a "wild west", with Han Chinese flooding in to exploit minerals and clamping down on restless natives, e.g.:
http://theweek.com/articles/703698/chinas-wild-west
Oh hell yes. Actually, Chinese history had several 'wild wests' (not always in the west, obviously).