Today I was going over some of the crunchier rules in Mekton. There are a few I don't like, some I wish were a bit more streamlined, and a few I just wish were simpler (like healing).
In any case, somehow I got to musing and reflecting on the past. I couldn't help thinking to myself, "you know, in the past you would have just used (your house rules to) Star Frontiers, written up some mech stats, and got on with the game. If something was fun, you would add it, if it wasn't, you would skip it."
This got me thinking...just when did I become so hung up on following the rules, obtaining the perfect rules for the perfect game, and obsessing over trying to find rule sets where I agree with the majority of the rules...as opposed to just making some shit up and playing the game.
It hit me suddenly; it was after my 8 year stint of playing Warhammer Fantasy Battles...and the internet! Before that I was still playing BD&D, Star Frontiers, V&V, and a handful of other out of print games...and just making up shit to add to those when I wanted to do something different.
Warhammer Fantasy Battles was the first game that got me anal about the rules. Mostly because, well, that game is all about the rules (as are most miniature or wargames). After playing WFB I became semi-obsessed with following. Reading, and comprehending the rules for play...something that followed right into my role playing.
I also came late to the internet. I first got online 9 years ago...so I could go on eBay and buy Warhammer figs! Now I won't lie, I love the internet, but, no longer could I find bliss in ignorance. Suddenly I had instant access to knowledge of every RPG in print, past, present, and future. Not only that, but forums allowed me to get instant rules clarifications...mostly about rules I would have ignored or changed in the past.
So now, I understand, comprehend, and digest most of the rules I read. I have dozens of system and game options for every genre or idea I get. Sometimes this thrills me to death, other times it leads to terrible frustration and even, sometimes,...depression when I just can't find exactly what I want.
Now, I know everyone changes the way they game, and their preferences over time...but has there ever been some specific thing that caused some dramatic change...for the good or bad?
Quote from: grubmanNow, I know everyone changes the way they game, and their preferences over time...but has there ever been some specific thing that caused some dramatic change...for the good or bad?
After I sold my first article to JTAS, I realised that my ideas on gaming could actually be used to fund my gaming hobby. This didn't change how I played, but it has changed how I think about gaming in general.
Fascinating observation, I can see that, but here's a question: "Doesn't Warhammer always end up breaking down into rules arguements anyhow?"
Quote from: David Johansen"Doesn't Warhammer always end up breaking down into rules arguements anyhow?"
Well, our game very rarely did. We had very agreeable players who all had a good grasp on the rules. We had 4 people in our group, so we generally had two battles going on when we got together. If there was ever a situation or rule that the players couldn't figure out, the other 2 were asked to make the decision. We very rarely argued.
There were really 2 things that caused me to stop playing WFB and return to role playing. 1st, I had been playing it almost exclusively for 8 years...every week. To be honest, it had finally gotten tot he point where I was just going through the motions. 2nd, the guys in my group had gotten very tournament and competition orientated. I was still living in the "4 guys in a basement having fun" mode. They formed a much larger group, and the new people were a different breed of player.
I guess there was a sort of 3rd reason, and that was 3.0 coming out and creating so much excitement in the RPG industry again.
Quote from: grubmanNow, I know everyone changes the way they game, and their preferences over time...but has there ever been some specific thing that caused some dramatic change...for the good or bad?
It is funny that you mention the Internet. I also have that to blame for my (seemingly) increasingly picky tastes in games over the years.
The "specific thing" that caused a change in the way I viewed roleplaying games, was when I found out just how broken AD&D was at higher levels.
What do you mean that my level 12 fighter's THACO is so low that he can hit a dragon pretty much automatically? This was the age where I really started house-ruling the hell out of AD&D.
I also gradually got more disgruntled with the restrictions imposed by class/level-based systems, that I found myself drifting towards skill-based systems.. The rest is history.
Quote from: David JohansenFascinating observation, I can see that, but here's a question: "Doesn't Warhammer always end up breaking down into rules arguements anyhow?"
That's a feature, not a bug. The catharsis of a good rules argument is far more satisfying than just knocking off the other bugger's pewter toys. Bonus points if you cuss them out, start a fist-fight, or stomp on someone's minis.
Quote from: PseudoephedrineThat's a feature, not a bug. The catharsis of a good rules argument is far more satisfying than just knocking off the other bugger's pewter toys. Bonus points if you cuss them out, start a fist-fight, or stomp on someone's minis.
Don't forget flinging your traitorous dice into the wall/crowd/nameless void.
I love hating Warhammer, but I love hating the internet more.
Said the guy on the internet.
The internet ought to be a bottomless well of character sheets, utilities, adventures, collected art, hex maps . . . and . . . well, it is.
But it's also such a nuisance. Gah!
D&D 3e was the first game I had ever played that could be genuinely fun as a game in and of itself.
This was an incredible realization to me, after years of messes like Rifts or dull "you roll, I roll" systems like Storyteller. The one and only area I ever seemed to find any games that were fun on a system level was character creation, which is perhaps why I was initially impressed with D&D3, because it was the first game in the series where that feature wasn't lacking.
I think it rendered me a lot more picky about games in general, because it set such a high bar to the design of a game in my mind.
Quote from: grubmanNow, I know everyone changes the way they game, and their preferences over time...but has there ever been some specific thing that caused some dramatic change...for the good or bad?
For me it's always been about the players. Over time, "how I game", which translates to "what I like about gaming" has depended on the people I game with.
Regards,
David R
Interesting topic grubman. I started playing AD&D with a cousin 10 years older than me. I trusted his and the other older players interpretation (I was 7). When my brother and I started to play on our own, Star Frontiers and Red Box, we played much as you describe. We winged it and probably stereotypical of what is considered "Monty Hall". I guess the transformation came with a recognition that there were rules (in AD&D) that applied to situations. It became worse as others and I became rules savvy. More eyes to digest the information we were all enthralled with. We started to question the GM's ruling. Sage Advice from Dragon Magazine became a source of how to do things "right".
We tried other systems that accomplished previous experiences in pieces until it escalated to similar circumstances. We became disgusted because our play was leading to the same conclusion. It became more like torts than even rules lawyering. The longest playing group of my life separated and found different solutions and only a couple that were sustaining.
I went back to systems that allowed me to do that even with what I know. I've had the privilege of playing with people that can do that regardless of system but one I know I'm no longer really capable of. It's a decision to separate myself from my own bad habits. I choose to remember ignorance than exorcise the demons that are knowledge for the sake of entertainment. Flowers for Algernon if you will.
When I hear "find a new gaming group" I liken it to dating more women to help my marriage. I'd rather find a solution to make it work with the people I want to be with.