Quote from: Omega;1007845The Keep in Keep on the Borderlands is topped with 6 ballistia and 4 catapults. + archers and crossbowmen.

Yes, but are they in quad mounts and arranged like WW2 German antiaircraft batteries?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1007856Yes, but are they in quad mounts and arranged like WW2 German antiaircraft batteries?

88mm balistae?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1007827.... that goes in my book, doesn't it...

Promises, promises.

Quote from: EOTB;1007812Classic Hollywood westerns were not actually documentaries of what it was like to live in the frontier west.

For the same reasons, I don't really care if the price of 50' of rope is historically accurate in my D&D game.

Correct answer.

In some cases, having the prices of certain goods out of whack can be the setup of a scenario (Why is this particular item so much more expensive in this town?). Another thing to keep in mind is that many of those doing the selling might have different rates for their regular customers and another for outsiders and another for undesirables. In the classic western Buchanan Rides Alone, the local border town charges the traveling gunman for hire $10 and up (a lot of money back then) for everything from a single meal, to a room for the night to a bottle of whisky. They don't like Buchanan, don't trust him, and don't want him in their town -and charge him extortionist prices to get him to leave.

In other words, if I mess with the standard price list it's to plant seeds for the campaign. I don't give a third of a flying fuck if a large shield didn't really cost 10 gold pieces in 13th century England because the campaigns I play have Jack Shit to do with 13th century England.

I just make any old shit up because dragons and fireballs.

No really I don't, but it seems that is how others make their choices.

@elfdart.  

You are saying that things out of the ordinary aren't mistakes they are clues.  

I don't think you understand how good you've got it if that is true.  First you have to be, precise, consitant and have a reason for everything.  Then you have to be an expert communicator, then you have to have long term players and a long term game so they can establish a history and track record for your game, they also have to be expert communicators.  Then they have to be observant and decutive enough to notice and note when things are out of the ordanary.  Honestly just having an ordinary is a major achievement.  

How can rhe players know they are being ripped off if they don't know how much stuff costs?

Quote from: estar;1007744Sorry if this sounds sarcastic but in the end it is only a price list. My opinion why most hobbyists don't use more realistic pricing is because of the work involved. It just enough that it easy to say "fuck it" and use what your core books give you.

As for designers you have tradition in the case of D&D and Pathfinder. So everything else is scaled off of the traditional base price list. As for the rest they are all over the place. Frankly the only system to do it right in terms of balancing gamability and historical accuracy is Harnmaster. In the case of something like Chivalry & Sorcery they follow the historical sources a little too closely in that it has weird gaps and other oddities.

As much of a historical stickler N Robin Crossby was he had an definite flair for making things useful for gaming. When he had to make shit up, he did and made it consistent with the rest of it. Then from there it got hammered and refined by the Harn Community.

Second best is GURPS especially in GURPS low tech. They had to go two rounds on armor pricing and weight but the latest iteration is pretty solid. If you use GURPS as source remember it is about $4 = 1 silver penny. The main issue with GURPS is that there is no unified price list like in Harn.
 



One way this might work out is that early adventures in a campaign will functionally act like the DCC 'funnel'. I.e., no one can afford good gear, and the main point in going on your first couple of adventures is obtaining enough loot to afford proper arms.

Also, you'd have to be careful in the way you present PC's with foes. If a suit of plate armor is worth a fortune, you shouldn't have people wandering around in it isolated and unprotected; otherwise any thinking player will just murder an NPC and hork his gear. That is, anyone who can afford plate armor will probably have retainers or be part of a powerful group, like a lord's bodyguard, and so be a tough nut to crack.

Let them scavenge the plate armor.

Then charge them half the base value to be refitted, and oh by the way, did you pay extra to have the embellishments changed? Better hope he didn't have friends.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1007900Then charge them half the base value to be refitted, and oh by the way, did you pay extra to have the embellishments changed? Better hope he didn't have friends.

Or enemies who recognize his armor.

Quote from: Headless;1007899@elfdart.  

You are saying that things out of the ordinary aren't mistakes they are clues.  

I don't think you understand how good you've got it if that is true.  First you have to be, precise, consitant and have a reason for everything.  Then you have to be an expert communicator, then you have to have long term players and a long term game so they can establish a history and track record for your game, they also have to be expert communicators.  Then they have to be observant and decutive enough to notice and note when things are out of the ordanary.  Honestly just having an ordinary is a major achievement.  

How can rhe players know they are being ripped off if they don't know how much stuff costs?

It's relatively easy to do this with things the pcs pay for often - if a room for the night is usually 5 silver, most will pick up on it if you charge them 10 gold.

Quote from: Bren;1007907Or enemies who recognize his armor.

Absolutely.

Loot is a plot hook if you want it to be.

Quote from: S'mon;1007919It's relatively easy to do this with things the pcs pay for often - if a room for the night is usually 5 silver, most will pick up on it if you charge them 10 gold.

I wouldn't know if that was signal or noise.  Of my 2 current DMs one dosen't have a master price list.  The other has 2.  So if I noticed at all I would think I one game, he just thinks we've got too much money and is trying to get it away from us.  And in the second game I would think he couldmn't find the first list he found the second.

That's if I noticed at all.  I don't role play to manage money.  

I am just saying that base line is hard to get.  If you have one you are lucky you have a group that lasts that long.  Lucky to have a DM who puts enough prep in so that prices are consistent, really luck if you have one that has prices rrspond to supply and demand.  And lucky to have the same quality of player.

You also can just tell the player what his character knows: "the innkeeper charges you 10 GP for the night, which is about 20 times more than a fair price at a reasonable inn."  

No prior experience or history needed.

"Historically accurate prices" and "Fantasy setting" are not things that fit together usually.

As of last check the real world did not have a race of short people mining and making tons of weapons, armour and other impliments and selling them. nore other races for that matter. Nor does the real world have the obviously VERY mineral and metal rich lands that many fantasy worlds do. And people werent beinging in the massive treasure hauls on a regular basis like in so many fantasy worlds.

Yes. I think some of the prices are a bit off. But AD&D and some modules had guidelines for alternate or even regional pricing and AD&D had suggestions for adjusting prices or coin value based on the influx of coin from adventurers.

Well one thing that no one has brought up it that most games don't really play with the idea of varying quality's of weapons and armor. Which is rather important substandard arms have pretty always existed and usually are notably cheaper.  
But in games like dnd if it's not magic , masterwork or made from A special material it's all the same.
Personally I tend to not worry about historical accuracy and try more for making my game A consistent economy that works and makes sense within the confines of my setting.  

Quote from: DavetheLost;1007850I have always though spells like "Passwall" and "Rock to Mud" were a bigger threat to castles than flying creatures.

And dimension door and disintegrate and ethereal jaunt and floating disk and A fighter who brought enough clean underwear and we aren't even up to the corner cases yet.

Dark Albion uses researched historically-accurate prices.

A very basic medieval sword could be as cheap as 6 pennies. While the cheapest leather armor would cost around 50 pennies.  A full plate mail would cost about 3400 pennies.

How much is a cow on that scale Pundit?  

Does your very cheep sword differ from a good sword?