I've mentioned in several threads at this point that most of my players love gaining distinct mechanical abilities through leveling up. They are the ones that WotC are thinking of when they fret about "dead levels" where no mechanical benefits are gained.

Now, a lot of folks on this forum know deep down that many/most mechanical wiz-bangs are actually pointless circuitousness. They can even hamper the sort of improvisation that is supposed to be one of tabletop's advantages over computers by declaring, "You can't do this awesome thing unless you have 4 levels in X".

But my players can't see this. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy running games with such mechanics in them, I had great unironic fun with 4e. The problem is that my players balk at any game that doesn't offer "kool powerz", games that work more off of character skills, player skills, and a few strategically placed special abilities. I feel that this is a real shame for them and for me.

What are the best approaches to weaning players off of the craving for constant mechanical gain?
Should they be weaned off?
Is this a generational problem with no going back?

They're not your kids, you're not supposed to be trying to "wean" them off of anything.  They're your friends.  Play games with them that you all have fun playing.

It's system specific IMO.
DnD 5e has lots of level based "kool powaz!"
I enjoy running 5e because of that.

I also like Legend (MRQ2, RQ6 whatever) and would run Legend if I had players for it.
It doesn't really do that sort of thing, which is fine, as long as everyone enjoys that sort of gaming style.

I know right now, time is a premium for me, so more detailed games like Legend and so on, just take too long.
5E is like an instant gratification system for me. Level up is pretty quick and you can do a lot in a short timeframe.
So the level based powers you get are good fun and give quick gratification.

If my lifestyle changes so I can spend entire weekends playing RPGs, I'll probably look at less quick gratification and level based power games more.

Still, in answer to your question, what RPGs did you have in mind that your players aren't keen on?
For example, when I ran Legend, you can develop legendary abilities and stuff like that so make it more interesting. Players I was running it for looked forward to being able to do that, even if they never actually reached that point.

I find such level abilities a waste of time and prefer more freeform games.

But I mean, it depends on what game you're playing. If you don't want such a game, then play a freeform one like Dungeon World. But if you're already playing Pathfinder then you might as well embrace what the game is meant for. It's just a question of which game to pick.

Pitch a campaign idea for a system that does not include kool powerz.  If nobody bites, look at them expectantly for someone else to be willing to GM.  If/when they do bite, prove your theory - run such a damn good game that the lack of kool powerz is not missed.  

By the by, I run for folks aged 18-50 (or so).  I have not noticed any generational divide on this issue.

Quote from: Old One Eye;830875Pitch a campaign idea for a system that does not include kool powerz...If/when they do bite, prove your theory - run such a damn good game that the lack of kool powerz is not missed.

This has been my experience recently. My long time group had not yet played ACKS with me. I pitched an open table sandbox as a game type that went well with our current lifestyles and schedules. It has worked exceedingly well, and the campaign has been a lot of fun. Even the couple players who were hard core min/maxxers that I thought would only give up pathfinder/3.x when I prised it from their cold, dead hands, largely haven't missed it. They're having too much fun.

Quote from: Critias;830871They're not your kids, you're not supposed to be trying to "wean" them off of anything.  They're your friends.  Play games with them that you all have fun playing.

This.

More like wean yourself off of the Players who demand 'kool powerz'... find some folks who share your interests more closely.

Players have always been interested in 'power', whether its in magical item form or mechanical character doodads.
Potentially the issue is the players being in a mindset where they don't believe they can do something unless its on their character sheet. Hopefully if they realize they can do cool things in play, without an explicit mechanical widget, then they'll start to give up the need to have a specific power. But that requires them to actually try out a simpler ruleset to see how this work in practice, and even so they may not pick up the appropriate player skills fast enough to not get murdered by kobolds.
 
The in-between step maybe to try to play an older game and tack on some widgets (I don't know what system you want but for instance instead of B/X, there's BECMI and allow use of some of the dodgier General Skills). You can also try educational pamphlets like the Old School Primer.

Make them play Call of Cthulhu.

Quote from: danskmacabre;830872It's system specific IMO.
DnD 5e has lots of level based "kool powaz!"
I enjoy running 5e because of that.

I also like Legend (MRQ2, RQ6 whatever) and would run Legend if I had players for it.
It doesn't really do that sort of thing, which is fine, as long as everyone enjoys that sort of gaming style.

I know right now, time is a premium for me, so more detailed games like Legend and so on, just take too long.
5E is like an instant gratification system for me. Level up is pretty quick and you can do a lot in a short timeframe.
So the level based powers you get are good fun and give quick gratification.

If my lifestyle changes so I can spend entire weekends playing RPGs, I'll probably look at less quick gratification and level based power games more.

Still, in answer to your question, what RPGs did you have in mind that your players aren't keen on?
For example, when I ran Legend, you can develop legendary abilities and stuff like that so make it more interesting. Players I was running it for looked forward to being able to do that, even if they never actually reached that point.

It's a system thing, and a setting thing.
And part of it is expectation and and how interesting the character-setting interface is.  If the setting is meh, which leads to the interaction between the character and the setting  being meh, then the players will always search out for system perks to liven it up.

Players do like leveling/adding abilities.  But you can scale these into more granularity.

I run an online game about to hit 50 sessions right now, and the PCs are first year students.  So they can barely light a fucking candle still, though each PC has found out they are sensitive to a type of magic, which does have cool moments.  Game is flying by and heavily attended, due to the setting-character interface.

Quote from: Critias;830871They're not your kids, you're not supposed to be trying to "wean" them off of anything.  They're your friends.  Play games with them that you all have fun playing.

Actually, they are my kids - or, more accurately, my kids' friends. I've in the past run successful Labyrinth Lord campaigns for my kids & a mix of friends / neighborhood teens / neighborhood parents, so my kids mostly trust me. But too many of their friends in the new neighborhood want to start with POWERFUL HEROES and progress from there, rather than play in a more modest power level.

I'll compromise on humanocentric swords & sorcery for my kids, running multiracial middle fantasy, but I don't want to compromise on system structure: with novice young players, across at least 3 DMs, every game with power-rich systems like 4e has led to the children only trying to do what's on their character sheet, which in turn results in a very boring combat-centric game for them.

One of those DMs was highly experienced in 4e and runs a wildly popular open table, so he might have been able to improve their experience over time, but see again "wildly popular".

(Another answer would be for me to stop trying to run games for kids, but (1) I want to pass on my hobbies to my kids, and (2) having kids it's a huge struggle to make time for games which don't include them.)

Quote from: Critias;830871They're not your kids, you're not supposed to be trying to "wean" them off of anything.  They're your friends.  Play games with them that you all have fun playing.

What if they don't know what they're missing? I'd be a much poorer person, culturally speaking, if others hadn't pushed me out of my comfort zones.

I'd say the OSR owes much of its growth, evolution and influence over current game design to people who were talked into trying it.

Quote from: danskmacabre5E is like an instant gratification system for me. Level up is pretty quick and you can do a lot in a short timeframe.
So the level based powers you get are good fun and give quick gratification.

If my lifestyle changes so I can spend entire weekends playing RPGs, I'll probably look at less quick gratification and level based power games more.

Interesting way of looking at it. Usually the sales pitch goes:

"This game's mechanics are less complex so it's faster and better for people with busy lives."

But your reasoning is:

"This game's mechanical density adjudicating a simple scenario (dungeon crawl) will deliver satisfaction faster than Traveller's simple system adjudicating complex scenarios."

I hadn't thought it through like that.

Personally, I'd argue the answer is "make an interesting setting/situation, and give them interesting choices within it."

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;830866I've mentioned in several threads at this point that most of my players love gaining distinct mechanical abilities through leveling up. They are the ones that WotC are thinking of when they fret about "dead levels" where no mechanical benefits are gained.

I've never understood the need for levels if the only thing you are gaining is hitpoint bloat.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;830866Now, a lot of folks on this forum know deep down that many/most mechanical wiz-bangs are actually pointless circuitousness. They can even hamper the sort of improvisation that is supposed to be one of tabletop's advantages over computers by declaring, "You can't do this awesome thing unless you have 4 levels in X".

Hogwash.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;830942What if they don't know what they're missing? .

Sounds like a Dm issue