I think Bradford nailed it: 4E design is exclusively focused on Teh Encounter. That's the basic unit of play and the basic environment of the gameworld. Everything beyond that will be spun off from its implications or tacked on as an afterthought. That's why what we've read and seen about settings and art is so mushy. In any case, 4E won't be a new game, it will be 3.5 to the max.

Quote from: Calithenahttp://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=349521&page=13

I think I'm out if this is going to be the tenor of 4e conversations.

What I find amusing is how many of the 4E threads on TBP descend into 3E system bickering.

The more I mull over what's been revealed, the more I appreciate the amount of thought that went into the sales pitch for 4.0; this time they're actually hitting the buttons of possible buyers who've previously balked in significant ways, and they're doing a lot better at presenting their solutions than in 1999.  While the gears and mechanisms that make this new model of car run haven't been fully revealed yet, knowing that recent 3.5 products acted as test beds allows me (and others) to seek out those products, look them over and make a well-educated guess as to what the 4.0 game engine will look and act like.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerThe more I mull over what's been revealed, the more I appreciate the amount of thought that went into the sales pitch for 4.0; this time they're actually hitting the buttons of possible buyers who've previously balked in significant ways, and they're doing a lot better at presenting their solutions than in 1999.  While the gears and mechanisms that make this new model of car run haven't been fully revealed yet, knowing that recent 3.5 products acted as test beds allows me (and others) to seek out those products, look them over and make a well-educated guess as to what the 4.0 game engine will look and act like.

Indeed. The "evoloution not revoloution" tagline coupled with specific source citations makes 4E a far better known quantity than its predecessor.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerThe more I mull over what's been revealed, the more I appreciate the amount of thought that went into the sales pitch for 4.0; this time they're actually hitting the buttons of possible buyers who've previously balked in significant ways, and they're doing a lot better at presenting their solutions than in 1999.  While the gears and mechanisms that make this new model of car run haven't been fully revealed yet, knowing that recent 3.5 products acted as test beds allows me (and others) to seek out those products, look them over and make a well-educated guess as to what the 4.0 game engine will look and act like.

Which is why I just purchased The Book of Nine Swords - even though it's 3.x. I figured that if this is one of the sources from which they drew inspiration, I could guess at the direction of the new system (I already have, and have been slowly reading, SWSE).

I have to say, I don't think it's for me.  But that's a post for another thread.

I've followed this and other 4e threads, checked out the buzz on other sites, borrowed copies of Bo9S and SWSE, watched the videos, etc and I have realized something. I, too, am Wizard's bitch . I love this shit. I think 4e sounds frickin' awesome so far, and it might even push True20 into the second fiddle position for me. I also love all this hype and speculation. I love that WotC is loving it, and is gonna rake in the bread (been reading Damnation Decade). I'm a complete and utter sucker, and I'm ok with that. Rock on.

Quote from: RPGPunditIt does seem to be getting further and further away from the actual original feeling of D&D, something that will only be good news to games that try to capture that feeling, like C&C and, dare I say it, FtA!

I've been starting to think this way as well.  

I've been favorably impressed with enough teasers that I'm willing to give the stuff I'm less-excited about a try.  I'll certainly be buying the 4e PHB, but it will take some time before I'd be ready to give up any 3.5 games.

-O

Quote from: RPGPunditThe statement was in ANSWER to a question about whether they would announce 4th edition, and it was pretty clearly implicit in their answer that they would NOT release 4e till at least the beginning of 2009.  So they LIED.

More about that infamous quote here:

Quote from: Scott Rouse on the Gleemax ForumBTW that quote attributed to me at D&D Experience that you reference here was wrong. Most was right except I said we have a lot of great products through the end of the year (2007) not through 2008 as it was attributed. I never corrected it on ENworld because it would have dumped a ton of gas on the 4e rumors.

So they still lied about D&D Experience as the only venue for big announcements?

Because that´s the only one I´m really disappointed about.

Quote from: SettembriniSo they still lied about D&D Experience as the only venue for big announcements?

Because that´s the only one I´m really disappointed about.

"Management of the D&D brand has changed between that statement and this announcement."

Ok, this post is directed at the infamous quote, but I seem to remember to the DDX big announcement statement is even older than that, so RPGObjects_chuck's guess/explanation should cover that as well.

Quote"Management of the D&D brand has changed between that statement and this announcement."

So anytime a company, or perhaps government too, wants to lie and be deceptive and have everyone just blithely accept it, all they need to do is shuffle their staff?

You seriously have no problem with that?  

Sign up for your cellphone at $whatever a month, locking in for 12 months -- woops -- they've got a new sales manager and now they can change the deal on you.  Your phone is no longer supported -- time to buy a new one!  

Prepay for 1 year of extended cable because they tell you that you'll get a big discount plus the Horror Movie Channel and the Motor Sports Channel -- then after a month they swap out programming directors and Surprise! -- you get the cross-stitch channel instead.

I'm not saying this is literally the same situation, so let's no pick nits, but the idea that people shouldn't be annoyed and speak out when companies mislead them into buying products they otherwise wouldn't... that is wrong.

WotC should have said:  "We'll be sure to announce any new edition at least 9 months (or whatever) before it comes out."

WotC made a mistake in how they handled this -- all you need to do to find proof of that is look at the number of people grumbling about it.  That's not building good brand loyalty.  This is significant as they're trying to move to a subscription based revenue model. Whether it's a serious mistake or a minor one, only time will tell.

You know how much of Wizards bitch I am?

They announce 4th Edition - cool with me. But then they announce the end of Living Greyhawk - not so cool.  Then I start hearing rumors about how 4th Edition is going to be, causing me some concerns.

So what do I do?

I go buy Bo9S so I can see what is influencing the new design (I already have Star Wars Saga Edition).

I go buy Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk - cause it's likley to be that last Greyhawk stuff published for a while.

I go buy Magic Item Compendium - to further "complete" my 3.5 collection against the possibility that I'll be in the 3.5 crowd instead of the 4.0 crowd.

Yup - I'm their bitch.

Quote from: StuartSo anytime a company, or perhaps government too, wants to lie and be deceptive and have everyone just blithely accept it, all they need to do is shuffle their staff?

You seriously have no problem with that?

Um, that's what new staff is supposed to do.  What would be the point of hiring new staff and not changing direction?

QuoteSign up for your cellphone at $whatever a month, locking in for 12 months -- woops -- they've got a new sales manager and now they can change the deal on you.  Your phone is no longer supported -- time to buy a new one!  

Prepay for 1 year of extended cable because they tell you that you'll get a big discount plus the Horror Movie Channel and the Motor Sports Channel -- then after a month they swap out programming directors and Surprise! -- you get the cross-stitch channel instead.

I'm not saying this is literally the same situation, so let's no pick nits, but the idea that people shouldn't be annoyed and speak out when companies mislead them into buying products they otherwise wouldn't... that is wrong.

No, because these aren't even in the same ballpark.  WotC didn't have a contract with you to provide X for Y months.  It's not nitpicking to say that your analogies are lacking.

QuoteWotC should have said:  "We'll be sure to announce any new edition at least 9 months (or whatever) before it comes out."

WotC made a mistake in how they handled this -- all you need to do to find proof of that is look at the number of people grumbling about it.  That's not building good brand loyalty.  This is significant as they're trying to move to a subscription based revenue model. Whether it's a serious mistake or a minor one, only time will tell.

Well, I know they severely mis-stepped with the 3.0-3.5 transition.  I mean, that made a lot of people mad, and they lost tons of sales.  It completely trashed the company forever...

oh wait a sec...  No it didn't.  That's just what various posters on the web predicted would happen.

I think predictions that 4e will cause WotC to crash and burn are even more far-fetched.

-O

Quote from: obrynUm, that's what new staff is supposed to do. What would be the point of hiring new staff and not changing direction?

Not exactly.

The staff might change... but the company didn't... and the staff are representing their company, not themselves.  So they need to be careful about what they say on behalf of their company, what has already been said, and what the plans are for future announcements.

Just because the old guy left doesn't mean everything he said on behalf of the company is suddenly null and void.

(I work in a Public Relations office -- I'm not making this stuff up)