From my upcoming book... a "Tank" is not always a guy in heavy armor.
UNSTATED ASSUMPTIONS – D&D AND TRACTICS
Another one of the games we played a lot was TRACTICS, a WW2 miniatures wargame. Wargamers being wargamers, WW2 wargames means tanks. And much like CHAINMAIL influenced D&D and how we played it, TRACTICS also influenced how we played D&D.
If you do any research at all on armored combat, one thing you find out very quickly is how limited visibility is inside a tank. From the first World War One experiments right up until today, observation has been extremely important to tanks. It's not surprising that wargames based on tanks would have rules about observation. Virtually every WW2 game I've ever played uses some sort of observation rule, whether it's dummy markers, or dice rolls to spot, or a variety of other methods. What TRACTICS uses is an "observation path."
In TRACTICS, a single vehicle can observe a path 4" wide, from the center of the vehicle to the edge of the board. Anything in that path is seen, unless it is behind trees, behind a hill, or similarly concealed. This may sound like a lot. We played TRACTICS on a 5 by 8 foot table, though. Go measure out a 5 by 8 foot area, pick a random spot, and measure a 4" path. You'll see that a LOT of area is NOT being observed.
You can only shoot at what you see, and the other side can only shoot at you if they see you. It doesn't take much to figure out how vital observation is in this sort of game, and that is exactly the case; learning where to look to anticipate enemy units, how to look with various units to maximize coverage, and how to take advantage of concealment, were major portions of the play of the game.
This carried over into D&D in a couple of ways. First, we were used to being very careful about where we were looking, and specifying it exactly. Even though we weren't limited to a 4" wide path, we assumed that observation was important. Possibly the most famous instance of this is Terry Kuntz, who, every time he stepped through an opening, would announce "I look up and down and all around." Opening a door and then saying "We look around before we enter" was second nature. If you just went blundering in, you deserved whatever happened to you. (Note that this is not the same as the referee saying "You didn't say that you were looking specifically for a black dragon on top of a pile of gold, so you didn't see it and it kills you." The technical term for that is "the referee is an not a very nice person.")
The other major effect that TRACTICS had on us was that "you can't anticipate everything." When you only have a 4" wide path to observe on a 40 square foot board, there WILL be areas that are not under observation. Sometimes, the first clue you would have that there were enemy forces around is when your lead tank blew up. Not only that, but unless one of the surviving units was observing the right place, you had no guarantee of seeing the enemy even after they opened fire. Nothing like spending two or three turns of frantic scrambling as your tanks are getting picked off, trying to figure out where the HELL the enemy is!
Also, one thing you learn about tank combat is that armor does not make you invulnerable. It increases the difficulty of the enemy destroying a unit, but no matter what vehicle you have – yes, even a Tiger II or Jagdtiger – if the enemy wants it destroyed badly enough, they will destroy it. So when we were down in the dungeon, the notion that, for instance, poison could kill you no matter what didn't seem out of line to us. Nothing was certain; everything carried some modicum of risk.
This meant that in D&D we had a certain bit of fatalism in our attitude. There were precautions you could take, and nobody wanted to die by being a dolt – like Goose says in "Top Gun," "The Department of Defense regrets to inform you that your sons have been killed because they were stupid." But ultimately we knew that, no matter how careful we were, no matter what precautions we took, there was always a chance that the first clue we would have that there was something dangerous would be the referee's words of "Roll a saving throw." Sometimes, you don't know the enemy is there until the lead unit dies.
Hoo, hoo! :)
Tell 'em about the little jaunt you took through the house, Glorious General! That'll teach 'em about 'visibility'! :)
- chirine
(Vrisa's a 'tank'? I thought she looked rather nice in her steel suit...) :)
Quote from: Old Geezer;802295there was always a chance that the first clue we would have that there was something dangerous would be the referee's words of "Roll a saving throw." Sometimes, you don't know the enemy is there until the lead unit dies.[/I]
We've found that to get everyone's attention fast.
Quote from: chirine ba kal;802496Hoo, hoo! :)
Tell 'em about the little jaunt you took through the house, Glorious General! That'll teach 'em about 'visibility'! :)
- chirine
(Vrisa's a 'tank'? I thought she looked rather nice in her steel suit...) :)
Oh, I DEFINITELY have a chapter on our "Live Dungeon Adventure." I still remember you decapitating Keith at the top of the attic stairs. And also being in the basement (Tomb of the Ancient Pot Roast, with the chest freezer being the sarcophagus) and turning around and realizing Olav had been standing with his back to a 3' by 5' hole in the wall that nobody had noticed for ten minutes. I believe my comment was "we hear a gurgle, the lamp hits the floor, and we turn around and find Olav is missing from the shoulders up."
And if a heavily armored person is a tank, Princess Vrisa is something sleek and deadly. Panther Ausf G, perhaps.
Man, the more I read about "Old School D&D", the more I realize the disconnect my group(s) had from 'RAW' back in the day.
We didn't worry about tactics or any of that sort of stuff. We just wandered around killing shit, getting magic junk, getting drunk in taverns, and generally having a great time.
I think if I'd ever played with a group where I had to do things like nominate facing, poke every fucking rock in a wall with a stick before going down the corridor, or any of the other sort of stuff I read about... well, I probably wouldn't have stuck with the hobby very long...
Quote from: Herne's Son;802804Man, the more I read about "Old School D&D", the more I realize the disconnect my group(s) had from 'RAW' back in the day.
We didn't worry about tactics or any of that sort of stuff. We just wandered around killing shit, getting magic junk, getting drunk in taverns, and generally having a great time.
I think if I'd ever played with a group where I had to do things like nominate facing, poke every fucking rock in a wall with a stick before going down the corridor, or any of the other sort of stuff I read about... well, I probably wouldn't have stuck with the hobby very long...
And that would be why different styles of games were written.
Quote from: Old Geezer;802808And that would be why different styles of games were written.
Indeed!
I think also part of the fun at the time was that while "D&D" was the
lingua franca of the hobby, it was rife with "regional accents". It was always interesting meeting new players and seeing how their games differed from mine. Every group had different ways to play, house rules, decisions on which books were canon, and which were ignored...
Good times. :D
Dave Hargrave's Arduin Grimoire offered formalisms for a lot of things - from facing and turning in a melee to modern artillery adapted to D&D rules - but the questions he led us to consider were more important than the details of his campaign's answers.
Quote from: Phillip;802968Dave Hargrave's Arduin Grimoire offered formalisms for a lot of things - from facing and turning in a melee to modern artillery adapted to D&D rules - but the questions he led us to consider were more important than the details of his campaign's answers.
...huh?
Something I learned the hard way:
A light source can be spotted in the dark from a lot further than it allows one to see. (Blue light of the Ssu - shudder!)
Underworld denizens could see in the dark, but only some tens of yards. Figures likewise equipped with 'infravision' (and preferably stealthy, like Elves and Hobbits) should scout well ahead. The main body should have lanterns that can be tightly directed and quickly shut.
Quote from: Old Geezer;803025...huh?
Never heard of it? Maybe it didn't get so much attention beyond the West Coast. The first volume came out in 1977; Erol Otus was the main illustrator in early printings.
Quote from: Phillip;803028Never heard of it? Maybe it didn't get so much attention beyond the West Coast. The first volume came out in 1977; Erol Otus was the main illustrator in early printings.
I've heard of it. I suspect OG has too. But your introduction of Arduin was a bit of a non sequitur.
I guess I was mistaken in thinking a subject of discussion was thought about tactics in old D&D. Sorry!