Waterdeep and all D&D Settings Must Be Just Like 2018 Seattle OR ELSE!

S'mon · September 13, 2018, 02:58:58 AM

Quote from: Aglondir;1055904That actually sounds... interesting.

It sounds like it could make a decent 32 page urban adventure, like The Veiled Society.

RPGPundit · September 13, 2018, 03:09:03 AM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1055893I've watched the video now ... does Pundit make any editorial changes beyond replacing "Waterdeep" with "Seattle"? Because a couple of bits in there (the "cross-dressing" line in particular) felt too tin-eared and on the nose even for WotC.

I change Waterdeep for Seattle, and skipped a couple of phrases mentioning the use of magic. EVERYTHING I quoted is absolutely verbatim. Including the 'cross-dressing' part.

Mike the Mage · September 13, 2018, 03:56:38 AM

Quote from: Aglondir;1055906Well said.

Don't buy products made by people who despise you. Buy stuff by designers who don't hate you.

I doubt that any designers know enough about me to hate me personally, but if the above line is meant to advise us not to buy products of authors whose opinions outside of gaming we vehemently disagree with, then by an large that is terrible advice.

If I understand his political POV correctly, then people who agree with Michael Parenti are not Pundit's cup of tea.

However, if Pundit wants me to give me back my money, I will regretfully hand over my copy of Lion & Dragon.

Christopher Brady · September 13, 2018, 04:08:14 AM

The fucking gender fluid bullshit. Could we PLEASE not encourage the mentally ill? They need help, not affirmation that their self-damaging view of reality is somehow 'right'? I mean, seriously, Wizards. Enough. You're hurting people.

If it wasn't for the fact I'm part of the AL, I wouldn't touch this piece of crap.

Melan · September 13, 2018, 04:46:04 AM

" And thus, I say, onwards, to Revolution! We have nothing to lose but our chains!"
"That's all very good, Sir, but you are wearing a shoe on your head, and this is a grocery store."

Spinachcat · September 13, 2018, 05:14:02 AM

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1055817Shit like this is why I play Ravenloft and not Forgotten Realms.

Ravenloft is the far more interesting setting. Stronger drama and better core NPCs.

Also, Ravenloft gives you more room to create your own campaigns without running into player's quoting canon at you.

Quote from: theswartz;1055889why does everyone always pick on Vanilla?

Seriously WTF! A high quality vanilla blows away most competitors.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055934Don't buy products made by people who despise you. Buy stuff by designers who don't hate you.

I doubt that any designers know enough about me to hate me personally, but if the above line is meant to advise us not to buy products of authors whose opinions outside of gaming we vehemently disagree with, then by an large that is terrible advice.

It's not terrible advice, but its limiting of choices. I prefer to separate Creator from Created, but I also support everyone voting with their wallet.

And my wallet votes FUCK OFF to companies who mix politics into my entertainment. If WotC, Paizo or others ever make something I want to read, I'll most certainly get it used so they never see a dime from me.

S'mon · September 13, 2018, 06:25:39 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;1055941Also, Ravenloft gives you more room to create your own campaigns without running into player's quoting canon at you.

I've been running an FR game set in 1359 DR with only the 1e Grey Box & Bloodstone lands (semi) canonical; FR seems to work best with very curated sources.

Mike the Mage · September 13, 2018, 06:44:17 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;1055941And my wallet votes FUCK OFF to companies who mix politics into my entertainment. If WotC, Paizo or others ever make something I want to read, I'll most certainly get it used so they never see a dime from me.

Well I guess that so far I haven't read anything in Pundit's or Autarch's work that is blatantly political. I wouldn't buy Mordenekain's Tome of Foes because I don't see the point in buying a book of rules and fluff that I'm just going to ignore or house-rule away. Nor would I buy Monster Hearts because the whole think sounds a mawkish and masturbatory vanity project.

Moreover, I wouldn't buy Price of Freedom because I found the whole thing paranoically jingoistic and ignorant of history and geopolitics.

That, said, the author, Greg Costikyan, I respect enormously and he has made it clear that the views in the game or not his own (see interview in link below).

http://www.juhanapettersson.com/2015/04/non-digital-better-dead-than-red/

Mike the Mage · September 13, 2018, 06:48:42 AM

Quote from: S'mon;1055945I've been running an FR game set in 1359 DR with only the 1e Grey Box & Bloodstone lands (semi) canonical; FR seems to work best with very curated sources.

Agreed 100% but what do you think about using the old FR1 through FR6?

Rhedyn · September 13, 2018, 07:08:54 AM

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055934Don't buy products made by people who despise you. Buy stuff by designers who don't hate you.

I doubt that any designers know enough about me to hate me personally, but if the above line is meant to advise us not to buy products of authors whose opinions outside of gaming we vehemently disagree with, then by an large that is terrible advice.

If I understand his political POV correctly, then people who agree with Michael Parenti are not Pundit's cup of tea.

However, if Pundit wants me to give me back my money, I will regretfully hand over my copy of Lion & Dragon.

There is a difference between hating political views, and hating the people who hold them.

People that actively hate you, you shouldn't support. Idk if this author does. But in general, it's sound advice.

S'mon · September 13, 2018, 07:15:36 AM

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055947Agreed 100% but what do you think about using the old FR1 through FR6?

FR 1 through FR 6 all look fine, along with FR 9 Bloodstone. FR 8 is a mis-labelled generic city book.

FR 7 Hall of Heroes is a vomit-worthy statting out of a bunch of novel characers in the worst possible way. In high school I had a Wizard player who sneakily persuaded me to let him use a spell from FR 7 - Elminster's Evasion. :rolleyes: Which it turns out existed to keep Ed's Marty Stu alive despite the best efforts of annoyed players, clearly never intended for player use.

So, yeah, 1-6 plus 9. Albeit I halve all the NPC levels, so Elminster is Wiz-13.

Mike the Mage · September 13, 2018, 07:31:03 AM

Quote from: Rhedyn;1055948There is a difference between hating political views, and hating the people who hold them.

People that actively hate you, you shouldn't support. Idk if this author does. But in general, it's sound advice.

As I said, I doubt any designer knows me well enough to hate me personally, but should Pundit decide that Anarcho-Syndicalists are commie pinkos whom he hates, then I will be putting Lion & Dragon up on ebay, I guess.

That is should I follow the "sound advice" in your distinction which seems to indicate that when somebody disagrees with me, they hate me, but when I disagree with somebody, I hate their ideas

Shame about L&D, cos I liked it a lot.

TJS · September 13, 2018, 07:43:41 AM

Quote from: S'mon;1055949FR 1 through FR 6 all look fine, along with FR 9 Bloodstone. FR 8 is a mis-labelled generic city book.

FR 7 Hall of Heroes is a vomit-worthy statting out of a bunch of novel characers in the worst possible way. In high school I had a Wizard player who sneakily persuaded me to let him use a spell from FR 7 - Elminster's Evasion. :rolleyes: Which it turns out existed to keep Ed's Marty Stu alive despite the best efforts of annoyed players, clearly never intended for player use.

So, yeah, 1-6 plus 9. Albeit I halve all the NPC levels, so Elminster is Wiz-13.

There's a part of me that would love to run a game like that but then...

- I wonder where i would find the players that are both positive enough about Forgotten Realms to try it but not fannish enough that they wouldn't be able to cope with ignoring large swathes of cannon.
- Whether, I would really enjoy it that much, or if it's just nostalgia - how much could I really stand all the old D&D tropes played straight?
- whether I'd just end up mentally wrestling with the weight of all that came after (not that I'm even all that familiar with a lot of later Forgotten Realms cannon - but I know the shape of it.)

Mike the Mage · September 13, 2018, 08:21:35 AM

Quote from: S'mon;1055949So, yeah, 1-6 plus 9. Albeit I halve all the NPC levels, so Elminster is Wiz-13.

Yep. I believe I was having a conversation about that with you and a few others here on that very topic. I think one other proposal was half all levels over 10, so that Elminster would be 18th level. That seemed a very elegant solution but I was still left with 7th level fighters as captains of the guard and what-have-you.

Using Fantastic Heroes and Witchery, wherein Gandalf is supposed to be about 13th level (according to Dom) made me go the straight 50% at the finish.

No fucking way Elminster gets to be higher than Mithrandir!

S'mon · September 13, 2018, 09:00:40 AM

Quote from: TJS;1055951There's a part of me that would love to run a game like that but then...

- I wonder where i would find the players that are both positive enough about Forgotten Realms to try it but not fannish enough that they wouldn't be able to cope with ignoring large swathes of cannon.
- Whether, I would really enjoy it that much, or if it's just nostalgia - how much could I really stand all the old D&D tropes played straight?
- whether I'd just end up mentally wrestling with the weight of all that came after (not that I'm even all that familiar with a lot of later Forgotten Realms cannon - but I know the shape of it.)

I think there are many people only very passingly familiar with FR and uncaring of canon.
Make clear it's an alternate, non-canon FR. I use some of the canon as exagerrated stories.
You could have a clear break point, eg no Time of Troubles, and go from there.