When EVERY D&D setting looks like and has values exactly like 2018 Seattle during Pride Week, and any setting with divergent values from that is forbidden on pain of social attack, censorship, and financial ruination; when all settings look exactly the same, then Maximum Diversity will be achieved!
[video=youtube_share;R29Y_nwgXoQ]https://youtu.be/R29Y_nwgXoQ[/youtube]
So, I'm curious, any specific review on the book otherwise? I assume you're referring to the Waterdeep: Dragon Heist book that's to release in a week or so? I have it pre-ordered, but thinking I should just pass. Seems less and less interesting the more I see previewed...
Waterdeep should not be like 2018 Seattle. It should of course be like 2018 Vancouver. :D
Given that FR is Ed Greenwood's baby, I don't mind the good-guy bits having Progressive tropes. It's the "all settings should be like this" bit I object to. Although I would find Gay Pride marches in Waterdeep to be jarring, and Crawford clearly has a tin ear - his attempt to make FR his own Magical Realm, rather than Ed's Magical Realm, is annoying. For some reason I find SocJus in Golarion to be a lot more annoying than in FR. I think the reason is that FR derives from one man's original vision. Golarion is a corporate creation, a Pastiche, and was originally (2007-10) only mildly Progressive in ethos; for me the shift to hardcore SocJus around 2012 was very jarring.
What's next for Lankhmar?
No prostituion?
No thieves?
No dark cults?
The Rainbow Palace is woke and a Gay Pride bastion?
Bwaahahahahahahaha!
Well, whatever you wanna play, I guess.
FR greybox and the old blue Waterdeep will do me, if I play Ed's world again.
I wonder if Ragefast of Baldur's Gate gets chased by a mob brandishing pitchforks after a #Metoo from the nymph he kidnapped.:rolleyes:
So...every setting needs bad traffic, huge consumption of antidepressants, massive homeless crisis and high suicide rates?
With all that inspiration, you'd think the useless shits at WotC and Paizo would crank out some quality grimdark!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1055803So...every setting needs bad traffic, huge consumption of antidepressants, massive homeless crisis and high suicide rates?
Well maybe not the traffic.
Shit like this is why I play Ravenloft and not Forgotten Realms.
But what if I prefer Portland, Oregon? :confused:
The market is segmenting. Soon their will be those that can appease the SJW hate-fest, and literally everyone else.
Really it's just a matter of enough writers, fans, and reviewers being driven off the Big Purple circle that they can form their own community.
It's not like people actually compete for shelf space anymore at stores, you can get everything you ever wanted online and someone's home is more comfortable. You can get a group for any game as long as you are willing to run it yourself and have friends.
What do you make of this gushing polygon article on the latest adventure to drop?
https://www.polygon.com/2018/9/11/17845902/dungeons-and-dragons-waterdeep-dragon-heist-review
Being polygon, I find it intrinsically untrustworthy and I sure won't be dropping $40 to find out for sure.
I've never liked FR, and Golarion is even worse. Too rich, too populous, too anachronistic, too modern.
The reason I got sanctioned on RPGnet in the first place was for defending history as an inspiration for my D&D campaign. It's badwrongfun to run a fantasy RPG in a setting that's based on medieval Europe and Near East but much nastier. Anyone know if the latest Warhammer setting has been turned into vanilla-happy-awesome land?
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1055824What do you make of this gushing polygon article on the latest adventure to drop?
https://www.polygon.com/2018/9/11/17845902/dungeons-and-dragons-waterdeep-dragon-heist-review
Being polygon, I find it intrinsically untrustworthy and I sure won't be dropping $40 to find out for sure.
What a terrible review. I get the impression the author has been playing D&D for about two years and his breadth of experience is limited to a handful of WotC adventure paths. First he expresses concern that the book is
only 224 pages long. I guess you need 300 or more pages to cover a level 1-5 adventure? Then he gushes over how the book is tremendously immersive and original because the author explains that Waterdeep has
four seasons and describes in a sentence or so what each of those season feels like - and those seasons correspond to those of the Pacific Northwest. What astonishing creativity and imagination!
Really, all those two points do is remind me why I won't be buying any more WotC adventures: they're so bloated and poorly organized that I have to spend hours and hours making summaries in order to run them at the table; and the FR setting is so cloyingly anodyne that it's about as inspiring and exotic as a vanilla cupcake.
Quote from: Haffrung;1055831First he expresses concern that the book is only 224 pages long. I guess you need 300 or more pages to cover a level 1-5 adventure?
I thought you were joking until I googled it! Nope - it really is a 5 level adventure (inc 1-3 newbie levels) in only 224 pages!!
I haven't had a chance to watch the video yet, but this reminds me of two things:
1. I should really work on that Romanticized Christendom setting I've been toying with, if only for my own amusement;
2. The Usual Suspects are probably going to flip when Paladin hits shelves. :)
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1055835I haven't had a chance to watch the video yet, but this reminds me of two things:
1. I should really work on that Romanticized Christendom setting I've been toying with, if only for my own amusement;
2. The Usual Suspects are probably going to flip when Paladin hits shelves. :)
I'm eagerly awaiting
Paladin for all the reasons that the usual suspects are going to flip out about, and because it's going to be awesome in its own right.
Quote from: RandyB;1055841I'm eagerly awaiting Paladin for all the reasons that the usual suspects are going to flip out about, and because it's going to be awesome in its own right.
Can't argue with either part of that; the Kickstarter has seduced me into getting every add-on. :)
Left a comment on your video, Pundit. Keep fighting the good fight, my man.
Like I said there, the SJW's at WOTC can kiss my bisexual weeaboo redneck hillbilly Roman pagan ass.
This is the exact same passage that triggered me to post in that other thread.
It actually gets a little worse. Check out your neighbors on Trollskull Alley. It's a Rainbow of Diversity!
Also why the fuck is a Waterdhavian referring to themselves as a Private Investigator and not as a Thief Taker or maybe Detective (I guess he couldn't come up with a good twist on Pinkerton)? That seems more in place with Sharn.
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1055824What do you make of this gushing polygon article on the latest adventure to drop?
https://www.polygon.com/2018/9/11/17845902/dungeons-and-dragons-waterdeep-dragon-heist-review
Being polygon, I find it intrinsically untrustworthy and I sure won't be dropping $40 to find out for sure.
It's obviously absolute garbage, filled with ridiculous "DRAMA!!" and scripted speeches full of shit writing.
Quote from: Haffrung;1055831Then he gushes over how the book is tremendously immersive and original because the author explains that Waterdeep has four seasons and describes in a sentence or so what each of those season feels like - and those seasons correspond to those of the Pacific Northwest. What astonishing creativity and imagination!
I'm pretty sure the four seasons happen in more places than the pacific northwest.
I actually found that part Interesting. Kind of like the tarot reading in the Ravenloft module.
Quote from: RandyB;1055841I'm eagerly awaiting Paladin for all the reasons that the usual suspects are going to flip out about, and because it's going to be awesome in its own right.
It does look great. Of course, they flip out from Lion & Dragon. The real question about which is more controversial will depend on if Stafford chickens out about depicting the Islamic invasion of Europe as exactly what it was: a bloodthirsty conquest.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1055886The real question about which is more controversial will depend on if Stafford chickens out about depicting the Islamic invasion of Europe as exactly what it was: a bloodthirsty conquest.
I have the Kickstarter draft, and the thing is, this is based on the Europe of the Carolingian epics and
gestes, which means you don't have Muslims--you have Moors and Saracens who "venerate Mahomet, Apollo, Tervagant and Jupiter." (359) The
only appearance of the word Islam in the text is the bibliographic entry for
Islamic and Christian Spain in the Early Middle Ages (Princeton, 1979).
Quote from: Rhedyn;1055823The market is segmenting. Soon their will be those that can appease the SJW hate-fest, and literally everyone else.
Really it's just a matter of enough writers, fans, and reviewers being driven off the Big Purple circle that they can form their own community.
It's not like people actually compete for shelf space anymore at stores, you can get everything you ever wanted online and someone's home is more comfortable. You can get a group for any game as long as you are willing to run it yourself and have friends.
Brilliantly put.
Quote from: Haffrung;1055831... is so cloyingly anodyne that it's about as inspiring and exotic as a vanilla cupcake.
why does everyone always pick on Vanilla?
Another timely example of where WOTC is going with the FR: RA Salvatore's "Drizzt" book released last week, "Timeless". Literally every chapter has at least one reference to some character's sexual promiscuity as if it's a badge of honor. Don't get me wrong, I like sex, but the way this is used in this book just makes the characters hollow and empty. It's the sort of thing I'd expect from a sophomoric author lacking original ideas for deeper character development. Furthermore, Salvatore pulls out all the stops to make clear social justice allegories (OMG racist Drow!! Not again!!) basically re-hashing the same unoriginal material and internal character dialogs that's already covered in prior books. Over. And over..
Quote from: KingCheops;1055862This is the exact same passage that triggered me to post in that other thread.
I've watched the video now ... does Pundit make any editorial changes beyond replacing "Waterdeep" with "Seattle"? Because a couple of bits in there (the "cross-dressing" line in particular) felt too tin-eared and on the nose even for WotC. :)
QuoteIt actually gets a little worse. Check out your neighbors on Trollskull Alley. It's a Rainbow of Diversity!
I glanced at that in my FLGS tonight, but only the first few entries. One question: are there any families with children in there?
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1055893I've watched the video now ... does Pundit make any editorial changes beyond replacing "Waterdeep" with "Seattle"? Because a couple of bits in there (the "cross-dressing" line in particular) felt too tin-eared and on the nose even for WotC. :)
I glanced at that in my FLGS tonight, but only the first few entries. One question: are there any families with children in there?
Not that I noticed but I haven't sat down and listened to it with that passage open. The cross-dressing reads as bad as it sounds.
Not detailed. Residences are left unfilled and only the other businesses are detailed. The only other mention of children is several halfling ones getting fried in a fireball that sets off the chain of events.
If you want to culture-jam 5e just make sure you stick to human paladin, set fire to anyone/anything that falls outside of conformity with your God, and remember the phrase : "My armour is contempt. My shield is disgust. My sword is hatred. In God's name, let none survive."
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1055885I'm pretty sure the four seasons happen in more places than the pacific northwest.
I actually found that part Interesting. Kind of like the tarot reading in the Ravenloft module.
Quote from: Polygon reviewYou see, in choosing the season, your gaming group will also choose the campaign's villain. There are four in all to choose from, and once settled on one the other three can either fade into the background or become grudging allies to the player characters. From there, the adventure spirals into a gritty, urban drama that culminates in a madcap dash around the city, all befitting the tropes of a proper heist movie.
That actually sounds... interesting.
Quote from: RPG PunditDon't buy products made by people who despise you. Buy stuff by designers who don't hate you.
Well said.
Quote from: Haffrung;1055830Anyone know if the latest Warhammer setting has been turned into vanilla-happy-awesome land?
It has a few tweaks to make non-humans a little more integrated: there are populations of refugee dwarfs living in the largest cites of the Empire that descend from fallen holds in the surrounding mountains, halflings are an nearly invisible minority throughout the Empire, a small enclave of high elves lives in Altdorf and high elf ships are somewhat more common on the Reik, small groups of wood elves wander throughout the Empire but are rarely trusted. So it's a little more open to non-human characters, but it's still a dark and hash world.
Quote from: Aglondir;1055904That actually sounds... interesting.
It sounds like it could make a decent 32 page urban adventure, like The Veiled Society.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1055893I've watched the video now ... does Pundit make any editorial changes beyond replacing "Waterdeep" with "Seattle"? Because a couple of bits in there (the "cross-dressing" line in particular) felt too tin-eared and on the nose even for WotC. :)
I change Waterdeep for Seattle, and skipped a couple of phrases mentioning the use of magic. EVERYTHING I quoted is absolutely verbatim. Including the 'cross-dressing' part.
Quote from: Aglondir;1055906Well said.
Don't buy products made by people who despise you. Buy stuff by designers who don't hate you.I doubt that any designers know enough about me to hate me personally, but if the above line is meant to advise us not to buy products of authors whose opinions outside of gaming we vehemently disagree with, then by an large that is terrible advice.
If I understand his political POV correctly, then people who agree with Michael Parenti are not Pundit's cup of tea.
However, if Pundit wants me to give me back my money, I will regretfully hand over my copy of Lion & Dragon.
The fucking gender fluid bullshit. Could we PLEASE not encourage the mentally ill? They need help, not affirmation that their self-damaging view of reality is somehow 'right'? I mean, seriously, Wizards. Enough. You're hurting people.
If it wasn't for the fact I'm part of the AL, I wouldn't touch this piece of crap.
" And thus, I say, onwards, to Revolution! We have nothing to lose but our chains!"
"That's all very good, Sir, but you are wearing a shoe on your head, and this is a grocery store."
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1055817Shit like this is why I play Ravenloft and not Forgotten Realms.
Ravenloft is the far more interesting setting. Stronger drama and better core NPCs.
Also, Ravenloft gives you more room to create your own campaigns without running into player's quoting canon at you.
Quote from: theswartz;1055889why does everyone always pick on Vanilla?
Seriously WTF! A high quality vanilla blows away most competitors.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055934Don't buy products made by people who despise you. Buy stuff by designers who don't hate you.
I doubt that any designers know enough about me to hate me personally, but if the above line is meant to advise us not to buy products of authors whose opinions outside of gaming we vehemently disagree with, then by an large that is terrible advice.
It's not terrible advice, but its limiting of choices. I prefer to separate Creator from Created, but I also support everyone voting with their wallet.
And my wallet votes FUCK OFF to companies who mix politics into my entertainment. If WotC, Paizo or others ever make something I want to read, I'll most certainly get it used so they never see a dime from me.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1055941Also, Ravenloft gives you more room to create your own campaigns without running into player's quoting canon at you.
I've been running an FR game set in 1359 DR with only the 1e Grey Box & Bloodstone lands (semi) canonical; FR seems to work best with very curated sources.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1055941And my wallet votes FUCK OFF to companies who mix politics into my entertainment. If WotC, Paizo or others ever make something I want to read, I'll most certainly get it used so they never see a dime from me.
Well I guess that so far I haven't read anything in Pundit's or Autarch's work that is blatantly political. I wouldn't buy Mordenekain's Tome of Foes because I don't see the point in buying a book of rules and fluff that I'm just going to ignore or house-rule away. Nor would I buy Monster Hearts because the whole think sounds a mawkish and masturbatory vanity project.
Moreover, I wouldn't buy Price of Freedom because I found the whole thing paranoically jingoistic and ignorant of history and geopolitics.
That, said, the author, Greg Costikyan, I respect enormously and he has made it clear that the views in the game or not his own (see interview in link below).
http://www.juhanapettersson.com/2015/04/non-digital-better-dead-than-red/
Quote from: S'mon;1055945I've been running an FR game set in 1359 DR with only the 1e Grey Box & Bloodstone lands (semi) canonical; FR seems to work best with very curated sources.
Agreed 100% but what do you think about using the old FR1 through FR6?
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055934Don't buy products made by people who despise you. Buy stuff by designers who don't hate you.
I doubt that any designers know enough about me to hate me personally, but if the above line is meant to advise us not to buy products of authors whose opinions outside of gaming we vehemently disagree with, then by an large that is terrible advice.
If I understand his political POV correctly, then people who agree with Michael Parenti are not Pundit's cup of tea.
However, if Pundit wants me to give me back my money, I will regretfully hand over my copy of Lion & Dragon.
There is a difference between hating political views, and hating the people who hold them.
People that actively hate you, you shouldn't support. Idk if this author does. But in general, it's sound advice.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055947Agreed 100% but what do you think about using the old FR1 through FR6?
FR 1 through FR 6 all look fine, along with FR 9 Bloodstone. FR 8 is a mis-labelled generic city book.
FR 7 Hall of Heroes is a vomit-worthy statting out of a bunch of novel characers in the worst possible way. In high school I had a Wizard player who sneakily persuaded me to let him use a spell from FR 7 - Elminster's Evasion. :rolleyes: Which it turns out existed to keep Ed's Marty Stu alive despite the best efforts of annoyed players, clearly never intended for player use.
So, yeah, 1-6 plus 9. Albeit I halve all the NPC levels, so Elminster is Wiz-13.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1055948There is a difference between hating political views, and hating the people who hold them.
People that actively hate you, you shouldn't support. Idk if this author does. But in general, it's sound advice.
As I said, I doubt any designer knows me well enough to hate me personally, but should Pundit decide that Anarcho-Syndicalists are commie pinkos whom he hates, then I will be putting Lion & Dragon up on ebay, I guess.
That is should I follow the "sound advice" in your distinction which seems to indicate that
when somebody disagrees with me, they hate me, but when I disagree with somebody, I hate their ideas
Shame about L&D, cos I liked it a lot.
Quote from: S'mon;1055949FR 1 through FR 6 all look fine, along with FR 9 Bloodstone. FR 8 is a mis-labelled generic city book.
FR 7 Hall of Heroes is a vomit-worthy statting out of a bunch of novel characers in the worst possible way. In high school I had a Wizard player who sneakily persuaded me to let him use a spell from FR 7 - Elminster's Evasion. :rolleyes: Which it turns out existed to keep Ed's Marty Stu alive despite the best efforts of annoyed players, clearly never intended for player use.
So, yeah, 1-6 plus 9. Albeit I halve all the NPC levels, so Elminster is Wiz-13.
There's a part of me that would love to run a game like that but then...
- I wonder where i would find the players that are both positive enough about Forgotten Realms to try it but not fannish enough that they wouldn't be able to cope with ignoring large swathes of cannon.
- Whether, I would really enjoy it that much, or if it's just nostalgia - how much could I really stand all the old D&D tropes played straight?
- whether I'd just end up mentally wrestling with the weight of all that came after (not that I'm even all that familiar with a lot of later Forgotten Realms cannon - but I know the shape of it.)
Quote from: S'mon;1055949So, yeah, 1-6 plus 9. Albeit I halve all the NPC levels, so Elminster is Wiz-13.
Yep. I believe I was having a conversation about that with you and a few others here on that very topic. I think one other proposal was half all levels over 10, so that Elminster would be 18th level. That seemed a very elegant solution but I was still left with 7th level fighters as captains of the guard and what-have-you.
Using Fantastic Heroes and Witchery, wherein Gandalf is supposed to be about 13th level (according to Dom) made me go the straight 50% at the finish.
No fucking way Elminster gets to be higher than Mithrandir!
Quote from: TJS;1055951There's a part of me that would love to run a game like that but then...
- I wonder where i would find the players that are both positive enough about Forgotten Realms to try it but not fannish enough that they wouldn't be able to cope with ignoring large swathes of cannon.
- Whether, I would really enjoy it that much, or if it's just nostalgia - how much could I really stand all the old D&D tropes played straight?
- whether I'd just end up mentally wrestling with the weight of all that came after (not that I'm even all that familiar with a lot of later Forgotten Realms cannon - but I know the shape of it.)
I think there are many people only very passingly familiar with FR and uncaring of canon.
Make clear it's an alternate, non-canon FR. I use some of the canon as exagerrated stories.
You could have a clear break point, eg no Time of Troubles, and go from there.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055950As I said, I doubt any designer knows me well enough to hate me personally, but should Pundit decide that Anarcho-Syndicalists are commie pinkos whom he hates, then I will be putting Lion & Dragon up on ebay, I guess.
That is should I follow the "sound advice" in your distinction which seems to indicate that when somebody disagrees with me, they hate me, but when I disagree with somebody, I hate their ideas
Shame about L&D, cos I liked it a lot.
Sadly, modern left American politics do take the stance, "people who support Trump are deplorable" rather than "supporting Trump is deplorable".
I've only seen Pundit hate on censors and mob justice groups. Those people have political views, but I only see him hate people for actions not beliefs.
Pundit isn't "right leaning" as far as I can tell. But "right leaning" people tend to attack ideas more than people, but I've definitely met people who don't follow that. For example, the most out-there theories of Democrat politicians just being evil, still do not attack "their brainwashed supporters" as being evil.
I'd like to offer a reverse example, but nothing springs to mind of anything sufficiently crazy on the left where they do not attack people and attack the ideas instead.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055946Moreover, I wouldn't buy Price of Freedom because I found the whole thing paranoically jingoistic and ignorant of history and geopolitics.
That, said, the author, Greg Costikyan, I respect enormously and he has made it clear that the views in the game or not his own (see interview in link below).
http://www.juhanapettersson.com/2015/04/non-digital-better-dead-than-red/
You needed an interview to figure that out??
Have you ever even read it?
It's obviously meant to be satire/parody.
We realized this when we were playing it back when it came out... and we were only 13 or so.
This is the same company that did Paranoia after all.
Quote from: moonsweeper;1055977You needed an interview to figure that out??
Have you ever even read it?
It's obviously meant to be satire/parody.
We realized this when we were playing it back when it came out... and we were only 13 or so.
This is the same company that did Paranoia after all.
Why would anyone assume someone holds the views presented in their work?
Why would someone care?
Maybe that's another reason I find "woke" media boring. It's so intolerant of other viewpoints that "woke" authors feel bad for even being able to conceive them, let alone letting such things diversify their media.
Quote from: S'mon;1055926It sounds like it could make a decent 32 page urban adventure, like The Veiled Society.
It's not bad. I'm reading through it now. It probably requires less prep work than most of the other published adventures but I think it can probably have the BEST value add by fleshing it out more. If that makes sense.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1055980Why would anyone assume someone holds the views presented in their work?
Some people -do- hold the views in their work, and other people can't get out of their own headspace enough to understand differing viewpoints, let alone present them in a manner a follower of said viewpoints would have. But there are a few people (we generally consider them "talented") who can espouse a view they don't share without rendering it down to caricature.
Ironically, "smart" people know that when a person plays a child molester or murderer or whatever in a movie, they don't really live that way. But an author (or in this case, game developer) -must- be dumping out some personal fantasy of theirs. Hence laughing at "magical realms".
The rot is spreading further from the setting to who you want to game with. Roll20 has,within the last two days, changed their code of conduct regarding inclusivity. Previously it had been this.
QuoteAll LFG posts should be in the spirit of, "our group is open to players of all genders". While we can appreciate your desire for inclusion, specifically targeting as such ends up being an issue of tokenization-- looking to fill a spot with an arbitrary token of a person, instead of truly being open
To this.
QuoteYou may advertise seeking to associate with those whom you share a common background (gender, cultural background, etc.). However, if in this process your post is discriminatory, inflammatory, or spends time on exclusion-- particularly towards those that face systemic oppression-- the post will be removed and be subject to further moderation as necessary.
You may not create a post seeking someone of a different background that you do not share. While we appreciate your desire for inclusion, specifically targeting a group in your post becomes an issue of tokenism and is not permitted. This will result in your post being removed and further moderation as necessary.
Of course this was not announced just slipped in under the wire.
These days, for a whole lot of reasons, I tend to be attracted to European rpg games in translation.
This is what it must feel like to live through a religious mania. Each month the zealots strive passionately to outdo one another in their piety and vigilance. Reason is in flight. It's at once fascinating and absurd.
Quote from: Haffrung;1056029This is what it must feel like to live through a religious mania. Each month the zealots strive passionately to outdo one another in their piety and vigilance. Reason is in flight. It's at once fascinating and absurd.
'Feel like'? It IS. This is all there is to it, 'Our "thing" is more pure than yours! BURN HERETIC!'
Quote from: Rhedyn;1055963For example, the most out-there theories of Democrat politicians just being evil, still do not attack "their brainwashed supporters" as being evil.
Democrats are right-leaning.
As for not hating lefties: "better dead than red".
Anyway, surely the only version of Waterdeep to bother with is this one.
(https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1435423486i/291526._UY1610_SS1610_.jpg)
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055934Don't buy products made by people who despise you. Buy stuff by designers who don't hate you.
I doubt that any designers know enough about me to hate me personally, but if the above line is meant to advise us not to buy products of authors whose opinions outside of gaming we vehemently disagree with, then by an large that is terrible advice.
If I understand his political POV correctly, then people who agree with Michael Parenti are not Pundit's cup of tea.
However, if Pundit wants me to give me back my money, I will regretfully hand over my copy of Lion & Dragon.
What it actually means is "don't buy stuff from designers that despise Gamers and Gaming, and want people who don't strictly follow their totalitarian agenda driven out of the hobby".
Quote from: RPGPundit;1056051What it actually means is "don't buy stuff from designers that despise Gamers and Gaming, and want people who don't strictly follow their totalitarian agenda driven out of the hobby".
On that I can agree wholeheartedly.
There is a parrellel here with what a critic Rich Evans said about the new Godawful Ghostbusters film: he said that the people making the film, writers, director etcetera seemed to flipping the bird at the fans of the original film. As if they hated their own target audience.
That is an arrogance and contempt that I have seen in TV, film, books and now gaming.
And its usually aimed at nerds. And if nerds return the antipathy it's called "bullying" "abuse" or some fkn "-ism".
But that's exactly it: they hate their own target audience, who they want to "punish" for the perceived "crimes" of western civilization.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1056063But that's exactly it: they hate their own target audience, who they want to "punish" for the perceived "crimes" of western civilization.
The crimes of Western Civilisation is an excuse: SJWs are as complicit in them as anybody else is; i.e. anywhere from not complicit at all to intrinsically complicit by virure of having been born depending on your historical POV.
My personal take is that the powerful have always screwed the rest of the population. I'm English (well, half-Scottish) and the Empire's first colony was Ireland. White.as.lillies. So clearly the British rulers didn't discriminate about who they colonised and oppressed.
I have no aristocratic ancestory so I am not related to those rulers and my ancestors did not benefit from their behaviour. In fact, not a lot later, my ancestors were sent down coal mines as toddlers. I grew up in Jarrow: famous for its poverty and that was under Thatcher. So I feel I have fuck all to apologise for.
Especially to some pretentious over-privildged sack of pretentious shit telling me how I've oppressed her/him/marklar.
All that is BS about Social Justice is an excuse to whale on nerds, neckbeards, geeks, grognards and generally anybody they hold in contempt and feel they can bully and get away with it
A lot of these hipster-looking blue rinses are out and out narcissists and narcissists are cruel.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056066the Empire's first colony was Ireland.
That doesn't make much sense. You might as well say the "Empire's" first colony was Wales.
Talking about "The Empire" was really a 19th* century thing (really got going with the direct takeover of India from the East India Company), when Ireland was part of the United Kingdom.
*ok, Google Ngram suggests 1775 - https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=British+Empire&year_start=1500&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CBritish%20Empire%3B%2Cc0
Quote from: Rhedyn;1055963Sadly, modern left American politics do take the stance, "people who support Trump are deplorable" rather than "supporting Trump is deplorable".
I've only seen Pundit hate on censors and mob justice groups. Those people have political views, but I only see him hate people for actions not beliefs.
Pundit isn't "right leaning" as far as I can tell. But "right leaning" people tend to attack ideas more than people, but I've definitely met people who don't follow that. For example, the most out-there theories of Democrat politicians just being evil, still do not attack "their brainwashed supporters" as being evil.
I'd like to offer a reverse example, but nothing springs to mind of anything sufficiently crazy on the left where they do not attack people and attack the ideas instead.
You may be looking at a subset of sources? In my both my mainstream media and social media universes there's a pretty strong distinction between the ideas and the people of the right, and an ongoing controversy between people who say "we need to argue with the ideas without attacking the people" and those who say "the ideas (or leaders) are so evidently corrupt that any person who still uncritically holds them must be worthy of attack". It could be the latter which are most widely broadcast - but by all means there has never been uniformity behind the "Punch a Nazi" messages.
Was not the original quote that
half of Trump's supporters are ... deplorables?
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056046Democrats are right-leaning.
As for not hating lefties: "better dead than red".
Anyway, surely the only version of Waterdeep to bother with is this one.
(https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1435423486i/291526._UY1610_SS1610_.jpg)
I would say that there is a pretty big difference between "better dead than red" vs "all commies should die".
As hate-filled as they are, I don't think SJWs have gone so far as "all non-woke must die" either.
The question was whether there are people on the right are ALSO guilty of hating people for their political beliefs.
I have ecountered people on the right who hate me because of what I believe. That's something I know, because they said to my face.
To what extent that anecdotal evidence indicates the nature of the right-wing demographic as a whole, I have no idea.
But let's not do the "we are the rational dispassionate ones" thing, please.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056079As hate-filled as they are, I don't think SJWs have gone so far as "all non-woke must die" either.
The question was whether there are people on the right are ALSO guilty of hating people for their political beliefs.
I have ecountered people on the right who hate me because of what I believe. That's something I know, because they said to my face.
To what extent that anecdotal evidence indicates the nature of the right-wing demographic as a whole, I have no idea.
But let's not do the "we are the rational dispassionate ones" thing, please.
No my argument was that there aren't crazies on the left who don't attack people rather than ideas.
Of course there are are extremist right-leaners, I've met some myself. It's that lack of extremist left-leaners that know they shouldn't attack people is the problem.
I do not think that even Alex Jones or Rush Limbaugh call democratic voters evil (and Alex really only attacks people he pretends are active participants in vast conspiracies), but Democrat party leaders will call half of the other sides voters deplorable.
Part of that side's message (which includes all SJWs) is that "anyone who doesn't share my political beliefs is a bad person". I do not know WHY it's so ubiquitous on the Left. But that is my observation.
Alex Jones is a hoot :D but Limbaugh is a hate-monger and if the SJWs only knew it, they have come to resemble his style of hate fest.
Don't bother with apologetics for Rush. He is just like an SJW, but only from the other side.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056081Don't bother with apologetics for Rush. He is just like an SJW, but only from the other side.
I would appreciate a quote backing up that he attacks people for holding a political belief.
It's not like I'm going to actually bother defending someone I personally label an extremist crazy. That wasn't even my argument anyways.
What is your point, Rhedyn?
That somehow people on the left hate people on the right, while people on the right just hate left ideas and not the folks themselves?
Cos that is horeshit, and you know it!
So take that "we don't hate the sinner, we hate the sin" semantical garbage and save it for a Youtube channel with frogs faces all over it.
I'm sick of this "holier than thou" crap almost as much as I'm sick of the SJW's holier than thou crap.
Quote from: Opaopajr;1055819But what if I prefer Portland, Oregon? :confused:
Then it's a lot poorer and a lot whiter.
BTW, you guys are drifting from the topic of RPG settings reflecting/being infected by real world politics and discussing real world politics directly.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056086What is your point, Rhedyn?
That somehow people on the left hate people on the right, while people on the right just hate left ideas and not the folks themselves?
Cos that is horeshit, and you know it!
So take that "we don't hate the sinner, we hate the sin" semantical garbage and save it for a Youtube channel with frogs faces all over it.
I'm sick of this "holier than thou" crap almost as much as I'm sick of the SJW's holier than thou crap.
You got to my point. You also conflate hating the idea with hating the person. Which explains your earlier visceral reaction to the suggestion of "do not buy things from people who hate you".
My point is that it's different. People's opinion can be understood as just an opinion. You may hate that opinion but it does not mean you hate someone for having it.
"we don't hate the sinner, we hate the sin" - is normally used in the context of "actions" not "thoughts" (please do not quote the one text about Jesus telling people to stab out their eyes, my study bible is not near me). And I would agree is pretty pretentious.
Hating people for their political opinions is essentially "thought policing" and I would agree that you shouldn't financially support people like that.
My tangent on "the Left" is the seeming effort from one side in particular that hating people for their political beliefs is "Good and Moral" is something I consider abhorrent and it's mainly being pushed by the SJWs and the political forces they are co-opting. Sadly the phenomena seems to only be coming from one side which makes the notion of "You shouldn't hate people for their political beliefs" a political notion instead of the basic common decency that it should be.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1056088BTW, you guys are drifting from the topic of RPG settings reflecting/being infected by real world politics and discussing real world politics directly.
A fine line and subtle distinction. And one drawn highlighted whenever conversations veer from the narrative.
But you're right CRKrueger. And I can't be bothered to explain this all again Rhedyn anyway.
I guess my feeling is that excessive socjus gives me another excuse not to buy books I probably wouldn't have used much anyway. I've had surprisingly little use out of Volo's, Xanathar's, or the third party monster books I bought - 5e feels very complete in three books. And WoTC have a tradition of producing pretty crappy adventure books; Tales From the Yawning Portal manages to be inferior to the stuff it was converted from, even for use in 5e.
So the big D&D survey was careful to ask which you identify as: male, female, or other.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056079As hate-filled as they are, I don't think SJWs have gone so far as "all non-woke must die" either.
But several on social media have promoted 'punching nazis' with nazi the default term for people they don't like. I've seen a post wherein a mentally ill comic creator claimed to want to bash Trump voters in the face with a baseball bat. I know of another who claimed to want a button that kills all Republican senators, push it and then go back to sleep.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056079The question was whether there are people on the right are ALSO guilty of hating people for their political beliefs.
Of course they do. But those used to be the extremists. Now, they're given a platform and are allowed to look bigger than they are.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056079I have ecountered people on the right who hate me because of what I believe. That's something I know, because they said to my face.
So? I have had people hate me because I'm ugly. Because I game. Because I don't drink the Kool-Aid. Because I simply exist. People will always hate you.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056079To what extent that anecdotal evidence indicates the nature of the right-wing demographic as a whole, I have no idea.
About as many as there are extreme leftists.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056079But let's not do the "we are the rational dispassionate ones" thing, please.
The problem is that most of those aren't right nor left to any major degree. But they're lumped into the Right because the Left don't want to hear what they want to say.
Quote from: KingCheops;1056112So the big D&D survey was careful to ask which you identify as: male, female, or other.
Yeah, I noticed that too. Puhlease...
Quote from: Haffrung;1055831Then he gushes over how the book is tremendously immersive and original because the author explains that Waterdeep has four seasons and describes in a sentence or so what each of those season feels like - and those seasons correspond to those of the Pacific Northwest. What astonishing creativity and imagination!
To be fair, the Oceanic climate zone also applies to most of Northwestern Europe (ex. London, Paris, Normandy, Dublin, etc.) and Waterdeep actually does reside in the upper middle latitudes on the Western coast of a Northern Hemisphere continent; exactly where you'd expect to find an Oceanic climate zone.
Not everyone who lives in say, Texas (significant wet and dry seasons) or New York (significant variations in temperature depending on time of year including LOTS of snowfall), appreciates what different climate zones are like. Prime example was one of my players back in the day who moved from Texas to Indiana with his parents. I asked him what he had for winter gear because it was coming up; he said he was fully prepared for winter, he had his (lightweight) leather jacket AND a scarf too. The rest of the group kept quiet after that, but then laughed and laughed and laughed at his expense when he was stuck waiting outside in 20 degree weather for 10 minutes huddled in his jacket and scarf looking miserable and as he exclaimed he didn't know it could even GET that cold.
Frankly, in my own work I was planning on including information about the climate specifically because of how it impacts the use of heavy armor, planting and harvest seasons and various other elements of life in a semi-medieval setting and because having a baseline lets them know when something supernatural is influencing the weather. In my campaign world many powerful supernatural creatures are able to influence the environment just by their presence so knowing that a week without any rainfall and temperatures in the 90's is extremely unseasonal even in the summer months is actually an important clue for PCs living in my sandbox that something supernatural linked to fire has probably made a lair nearby within the last couple of months and maybe they should start investigating as, left unchecked, the regions around powerful elemental fire creatures eventually become as parched and scorchingly hot as the Sahara and even the ground water begins to boil eventually (resulting in volcanic fissures, steam vents and geysers).
Quote from: S'mon;1056101I guess my feeling is that excessive socjus gives me another excuse not to buy books I probably wouldn't have used much anyway. I've had surprisingly little use out of Volo's, Xanathar's, or the third party monster books I bought - 5e feels very complete in three books. And WoTC have a tradition of producing pretty crappy adventure books; Tales From the Yawning Portal manages to be inferior to the stuff it was converted from, even for use in 5e.
I actually found Xanathar's to be extremely useful. The two PC's I actually played 5e with were a College of Swords Bard (the flourishes are fun) and a Celestial Warlock (who, as long as the group got one short rest in a day, could compete with a Life Cleric for healing ability), neither of which could be made using just the core three books. But, different strokes, different folks.
Quote from: Chris24601;1056133To be fair, the Oceanic climate zone also applies to most of Northwestern Europe (ex. London, Paris, Normandy, Dublin, etc.) and Waterdeep actually does reside in the upper middle latitudes on the Western coast of a Northern Hemisphere continent; exactly where you'd expect to find an Oceanic climate zone.
I agree that climate is an important aspect of a game setting, and really should be mentioned in a city book - at least so far as it impacts the way people in the city live in meaningful ways. (Just as long as it doesn't bang on about obvious stuff like in "winter people tend to dress in warm clothes.")
It just seems odd that the review would bring this out for special praise - to me it should be more of a baseline of competence. (And nothing, in the review at least, suggests it goes beyond that).
It's would be like if someone published a glowing review of an adventure because the "NPCs have motivations".
RPGPundit, please transfer this thread to your forum. It's clearly become a politics discussion and needs some quality profanity.
I'm happy to respond to people (or go for max LOLZ via poo flinging), but this ain't a RPG thread anymore.
Quote from: TJS;1056167I agree that climate is an important aspect of a game setting, and really should be mentioned in a city book - at least so far as it impacts the way people in the city live in meaningful ways..
Agreed. Lankhmar is known for its cloying humidity. Bland vanilla climate is just laziness but tbf weather and climate can easily be overlooked in urban settings.
A few real world examples can be stolen
Take for example Torshavn in the Faroe Islands: 840 hours of sun per year and even in the summer, average temperatures only creep up to 11 degrees Celsius/52 degrees Fahrenheit.
I saw this Waterdeep book on the shelf at Books-a-Million yesterday and flipped through it. Not a lot of art or maps (except the big one that was folded into the back), and not a lot of monster stuff either. What was there were big blocks of text. I only gave it about 5 minutes of my attention, but nothing reached out and made me want to take the book home.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1056206I saw this Waterdeep book on the shelf at Books-a-Million yesterday and flipped through it. Not a lot of art or maps (except the big one that was folded into the back), and not a lot of monster stuff either. What was there were big blocks of text. I only gave it about 5 minutes of my attention, but nothing reached out and made me want to take the book home.
Yes climate is important for establish a sense of place, which helps immersion. But it should have practical consequences too (which also help further reinforce immersion). If the city is in a cold climate and has a river through the middle of it - does that river freeze over in the winter (This could well affect a chase scene - or maybe they have annual ice-fairs)? If it gets really cold in winter does the market scale down and move inside during the winter months (it may be harder to get many kinds of items). If it's really hot, do people sleep outside on their roofs as in some middle eastern countries (this is going to affect a rooftop chase or stealthy entry)? And that's before we start thinking about the fantasy consequences - does a city by a lake have lookout towers to warn people in the summer months of incoming stirge swarms so they can head inside and lock the doors.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1055980Why would anyone assume someone holds the views presented in their work?
Because they lack the brain power to assume otherwise, or have some sort of agenda.
Quote from: Gagarth;1056006Roll20 has,within the last two days, changed their code of conduct regarding inclusivity.
Holy shit that's infuriatingly hypocritical.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1055980Why would anyone assume someone holds the views presented in their work?
I'll quote the article I linked to.
QuoteThis makes The Price of Freedom something of an oddity, a conservative game designed by a non-conservative designer wishing to sell games to conservatives.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1056289Because they lack the brain power to assume otherwise, or have some sort of agenda.
What agenda does Juhana Pettersson have? Well the author writes
QuoteWe're not politically conservative,
AHA! There it is. The agenda. Not politically conservative is what the agenda is.
You were right, Adderlan!
That's what I like about you: smart and not a whiff of an agenda of your own, either.
I don't buy the Team Red hates ideas while Team Blue hates people. Everybody fucking hates everybody. That's how humans roll. Nothing new about that.
Quote from: Gagarth;1056006The rot is spreading further from the setting to who you want to game with. Roll20 has,within the last two days, changed their code of conduct regarding inclusivity.
Could you explain this? Maybe I'm dense.
I'm not familiar with the situation on Roll20. Were people seeking players of particular genetics instead of game interest? Isn't their stance against tokenism a good thing? I would find it VERY creepy if a player invite was based on your skin color, your pants junk or where you like to put your junk.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1056299I don't buy the Team Red hates ideas while Team Blue hates people. Everybody fucking hates everybody. That's how humans roll. Nothing new about that.
QFT.
As regards inclusivity in games, I think for many gamers like myself, it is whoever wants to play and make the sessions regularly. Apart from basic courtesy fitting of an adult guest at somebody else's house, er...that's it.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1056299Could you explain this? Maybe I'm dense.
I'm not familiar with the situation on Roll20. Were people seeking players of particular genetics instead of game interest? Isn't their stance against tokenism a good thing? I would find it VERY creepy if a player invite was based on your skin color, your pants junk or where you like to put your junk.
People were posting games that were exclusively for women or LGBTIA+ according to the original Code of Conduct this was not allowed but went unsanctioned by the mods even when these posting were questioned. With the new wording they are explicit, it is fine and dandy to exclude straight white guys from your game. Also now if one of the "oppressed" i.e. anyone who is not a straight white guy does not get accepted to game they can sic the mods onto the GM.
Was the "particularly towards those that face systemic oppression" to subtle for you?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1056299I don't buy the Team Red hates ideas while Team Blue hates people. Everybody fucking hates everybody. That's how humans roll. Nothing new about that.
Yeah that is a crazy idea. I do not know who you are arguing with though.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1056299I don't buy the Team Red hates ideas while Team Blue hates people. Everybody fucking hates everybody. That's how humans roll. Nothing new about that.
Sure, there are hateful people of all ideologies and there are tolerant people of all ideologies. I don't want to draw a false equivalency though. Leftists, including a great many far left extremists, have no trouble hosting events to further their ideologies, all too often paid for by tax payers. Conservatives, though, have trouble having events or meeting because leftists extremists show up and attack people. This often happens even with very moderate barely conservative people or events - like Ben Shapiro.
Maybe I'm in the wrong hobbies, but I haven't noticed almost everything I'm interested in being dominated by a bunch of right wingers saying that if you don't except the tenants of Nazism or Christian Dominionism then you need to be bullied out of those hobbies. I've never had a bunch of Christian extremists trying to dox me for being openly an atheist, in fact just about all of the fundamentalist Christians I know and talk to have been very tolerant. I have had leftist cyber-stalking me trying to dox me for being right wing though. I'm not alone in that, doxxing people and trying to get people fired, expelled, or generally terrorized is an extremely common leftist tactic now.
So some conservatives are hateful, sure, but they are sufficiently few in number and/or moderate in animosity that they have relatively little impact. They same can't be said about the left.
Quote from: Naburimannu;1056075It could be the latter which are most widely broadcast - but by all means there has never been uniformity behind the "Punch a Nazi" messages.
Was not the original quote that half of Trump's supporters are ... deplorables?
That's correct, she said that
half of the
63 million people who voted for Trump are "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic". And 65 million people -- comprised entirely of those who you claim are more reasonable -- nevertheless voted for someone who said that.
And now gaming companies are jumping on that same quotewagon, and tacitly supporting those who "punch nazi's", and meanwhile shoving the ideology that's used to
justify "punching nazi's" right down the gullet of the gaming community.
I'll believe that there isn't tacit agreement with leftist extremism when those 65 million voters speak up and take a stand against it, instead of voting for the people who espouse it (or purchasing their gaming products).
Quote from: ShieldWife;1056336Sure, there are hateful people of all ideologies and there are tolerant people of all ideologies. I don't want to draw a false equivalency though. Leftists, including a great many far left extremists, have no trouble hosting events to further their ideologies, all too often paid for by tax payers. Conservatives, though, have trouble having events or meeting because leftists extremists show up and attack people. This often happens even with very moderate barely conservative people or events - like Ben Shapiro.
Maybe I'm in the wrong hobbies, but I haven't noticed almost everything I'm interested in being dominated by a bunch of right wingers saying that if you don't except the tenants of Nazism or Christian Dominionism then you need to be bullied out of those hobbies. I've never had a bunch of Christian extremists trying to dox me for being openly an atheist, in fact just about all of the fundamentalist Christians I know and talk to have been very tolerant. I have had leftist cyber-stalking me trying to dox me for being right wing though. I'm not alone in that, doxxing people and trying to get people fired, expelled, or generally terrorized is an extremely common leftist tactic now.
So some conservatives are hateful, sure, but they are sufficiently few in number and/or moderate in animosity that they have relatively little impact. They same can't be said about the left.
I think that's about right, with the proviso that there are lots of horrible apolitical people on the Internet too. When they are being mean to women & other Protected Groups, the socjus people assume they are Right Wing and of course emblematic of Systemic Oppression.
But there aren't many genuinely conservative people who are horrible. There are some self-described Alt-Right who are pretty bad (& some who aren't).
So I'm actually liking the adventure itself. It's pretty short but good. I think they really should have done this adventure for Eberron and found something more suitable to do in Waterdeep -- especially since this is just a "here's how to level them up for our next release".
Quote from: S'mon;1056346I think that's about right, with the proviso that there are lots of horrible apolitical people on the Internet too. When they are being mean to women & other Protected Groups, the socjus people assume they are Right Wing and of course emblematic of Systemic Oppression.
But there aren't many genuinely conservative people who are horrible. There are some self-described Alt-Right who are pretty bad (& some who aren't).
Well, there is a tendency for certain people to act like jerks online. I don't think that it's partisan or has any relationship to the various demographic groups that the SJW's are obsessed about. Once you get used to that, then the mean minority of Internet users are just background noise.
I don't think that the right really ruins people's fun or pose a real world danger to people like the left do.
Quote from: S'mon;1056346I think that's about right, with the proviso that there are lots of horrible apolitical people on the Internet too. When they are being mean to women & other Protected Groups, the socjus people assume they are Right Wing and of course emblematic of Systemic Oppression.
No, they're not assuming. They are CLAIMING that ANYONE who questions their views as Alt-Right or Nazi, and then promote violence.
Quote from: S'mon;1056346But there aren't many genuinely conservative people who are horrible. There are some self-described Alt-Right who are pretty bad (& some who aren't).
Most people aren't.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056292*stuff*
Hmm, you appear to have missed the first part of my statement and added extra context elsewhere. That's OK, I understand commas are confusing. So let me restate:
Only the weak minded
or those with an agenda assume someone holds the views they present in their work. So if it's not due to an agenda it's due to plain simple mindedness, especially when it comes to obvious
parodies which actually
do reflect their views.
Quote from: ShieldWife;1056336doxxing people and trying to get people fired, expelled, or generally terrorized is an extremely common leftist tactic now.
You're not wrong.
I wonder what they're hoping to achieve with it.
The dominant cultural mindset always comes with the ability to intimidate others socially, and sometimes to get away with extending that into others personal lives, their jobs, etc. A certain amount of that happens automatically, almost by osmosis. The major difference at the moment is perhaps that we have a cultural mindset that is dominating almost all methods of cultural transmission, but is not shared by anywhere near the majority of the populace. It might be akin to, say, English nobility/upper class control over England at various times (though I'm only guessing from indirect, imperfect sources).
When people are telling you that you must reinforce the cultural mindset in your leisure activities, or else, they are on a crusade.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1056393You're not wrong.
I wonder what they're hoping to achieve with it.
Control. It's their end game, control of everything so they can be moral arbiter of the 'world'.
Stick to the RPG themed topic. If you start bringing up broader news items in the culture war I'll have to start issuing warnings, and I don't want to do that.
Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1056393That's OK, I understand commas are confusing.
Is that why you havent't finished writing the KS?
Quote from: Gagarth;1056312People were posting games that were exclusively for women or LGBTIA+ according to the original Code of Conduct this was not allowed but went unsanctioned by the mods even when these posting were questioned. With the new wording they are explicit, it is fine and dandy to exclude straight white guys from your game. Also now if one of the "oppressed" i.e. anyone who is not a straight white guy does not get accepted to game they can sic the mods onto the GM.
What an exclusive inclusivity policy!
That's a lawsuit waiting to happen, if Roll20 doesn't implode from its utter stupidity.
Quote from: Gagarth;1056312Was the "particularly towards those that face systemic oppression" to subtle for you?
No, but I was actually surprised they recognized the creepiness of token recruiting.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1056321Yeah that is a crazy idea. I do not know who you are arguing with though.
The invisible gnome in the corner. That little ass keeps mouthing off.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1056447Is that why you havent't finished writing the KS?
If only it were possible to
write physical dice into existence, it would have been done before it began. Sadly my mastery over matter is not at that level.
Does the new Waterdeep have $6 cups of milk tinted with coffee and $3.50 vegan artisan donuts?
It seems to beg for a parody product, with some of those very 'incorrect' tables from the original City State of the Invincible Overlord.
"Starbucks Fantasy".
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1055946Moreover, I wouldn't buy Price of Freedom because I found the whole thing paranoically jingoistic and ignorant of history and geopolitics.
Be honest you wouldn't buy Price of Freedom because you are a commie fuck and find it offensive because you have the same sort of Stalinist ideas as the Goldsmiths, University of London student group.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1056456What an exclusive inclusivity policy!
No, but I was actually surprised they recognized the creepiness of token recruiting.
.
They had done with original text before the "systemic oppression" was added. I have not seen any posts with "seeking African American" or "seeking Gay to represent" type posts so the whole idea tokenism is bollocks. But there have been plenty of LGBTIA+ and women only posts.
The rot is now spreading to Glorantha/Runequest. A lot of Glorantha cultures have had multiple genders and sexes before all the this SJW fascism so they cannot target that so they are going after the in game myths so they are safe for women.
QuoteAm I the only one who finds the Wooing of Ernalda story (Glorantha Sourcebook, p. 115, but also in Heortling Mythology) incredibly creepy?
Let's break this down. According to the myth, Orlanth goes to Ernalda and demands her earth from her. She agrees to a trade (earth for bullroarer), but when he goes back home, his brothers make fun of him. So he goes back to Ernalda and vehemently insults her for humiliating her (which she hasn't actually done). He threatens to attack her, so she calms him down by returning the bullroarer and having sex with him. He goes back to his brothers, who again mock him, so he goes back to Ernalda again In a blind rage and forces Ernalda to beg for mercy from him. Then he marries her.
This looks an awful lot like domestic violence. The boyfriend gets mocked by his male friends for being gentle, so he demonstrates his physical power by attacking his girlfriend, who appeases him with sex and ultimately agrees to marry him because she's afraid to say no. His friends are taunting him into abusing his girlfriend, and he blames her for the fact that his friends are being dicks to him. This is literally exactly how toxic masculinity operates in the real world.
I get that this is supposed to be a demonstration of how Earth calms Air. But it reads as a mythic justification for men engaging in violence against women
QuoteAs I'm sure we're all aware, table-top gaming has a long history of not being very friendly to female players. Glorantha is, I think, a friendlier game world for women than a lot of the alternatives, but I know a couple of women who find the highly-gendered nature of Glorantha pretty uncomfortable, and a myth like this strikes me as likely to trigger female players who have experienced domestic violence or rape. I'm in the early stages of planning a large-scale Sartar LARP that will probably involve a fair number of female players, so I need to be thinking about how a myth like this is going to read to female players.
QuoteThat's great if we're all Bronze Age people just living our lives. But we're not. We're 21st century people playing a game. The kind of stories we choose to tell when we game have impacts on us and how we think about our lives and our world. Telling misogynistic stories encourages misogyny.
Quote from: Gagarth;1056611The rot is now spreading to Glorantha/Runequest. A lot of Glorantha cultures have had multiple genders and sexes before all the this SJW fascism so they cannot target that so they are going after the in game myths so they are safe for women.
Do you have a link to the thread?
QuoteThat's great if we're all Bronze Age people just living our lives. But we're not. We're 21st century people playing a game. The kind of stories we choose to tell when we game have impacts on us and how we think about our lives and our world. Telling misogynistic stories encourages misogyny.
That quote sums up everything that's wrong with the SJW dogma in RPGs. History shows us people who had different values from us. Therefore, history can make people uncomfortable. Therefore, if you recount history you're spreading hatred. Therefore, history should be suppressed.
I guess all the women who study history, who are historians, who write historical fiction, have been captured by the patriarchy and suffer from PTSD from their exposure to people with different values. Barbara Tuchman, Mary Beard, Mary Renault, Rosemary Sutcliff, Colleen McCullough, Sharon Kay Penman - all spreading misogyny.
How can anyone who isn't a complete dimwit go along with this nonsense?
Quote from: Gagarth;1056607Be honest you wouldn't buy Price of Freedom because you are a commie fuck and find it offensive because you have the same sort of Stalinist ideas as the Goldsmiths, University of London student group.
WTF?
I thought this was the kind of intolerant shit we were supposed to be better than?
Quote from: TJS;1056733WTF?
I thought this was the kind of intolerant shit we were supposed to be better than?
Hahaha no, neither is saying the other one shouldn't be allowed to speak. That's it.
Quote from: TJS;1056733I thought this was the kind of intolerant shit we were supposed to be better than?
Nah. This is Mos Eisley, keep your blaster handy. "Intolerant shit" is flung regularly, but that's the point. Both Gargath and Mike the Mage are welcome to go mega monkey poo flinging at each other (and everyone else) without being banned for badwrongthink. It's a free speech site, not a nice speech site, and that means semi-regular shit tennis.
And Price of Freedom was weak. Classic Traveller was WAY better to use for Red Dawn RPGing. We converted Twilight 2000 to Classic Traveller too.
Quote from: TJS;1056733I thought this was the kind of intolerant shit we were supposed to be better than?
Nah. This is Mos Eisley, keep your blaster handy. "Intolerant shit" is flung regularly, but that's the point. Both Gargath and Mike the Mage are welcome to go mega monkey poo flinging at each other (and everyone else) without being banned for badwrongthink. It's a free speech site, not a nice speech site, and that means semi-regular shit tennis.
And Price of Freedom was weak. Classic Traveller was WAY better to use for Red Dawn RPGing. We converted Twilight 2000 to Classic Traveller too.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1056802Nah. This is Mos Eisley, keep your blaster handy. "Intolerant shit" is flung regularly, but that's the point. Both Gargath and Mike the Mage are welcome to go mega monkey poo flinging at each other (and everyone else) without being banned for badwrongthink. It's a free speech site, not a nice speech site, and that means semi-regular shit tennis.
And Price of Freedom was weak. Classic Traveller was WAY better to use for Red Dawn RPGing. We converted Twilight 2000 to Classic Traveller too.
And GDW converted Classic Traveller to Twilight 2000... :)
Quote from: Gagarth;1056611The rot is now spreading to Glorantha/Runequest. A lot of Glorantha cultures have had multiple genders and sexes before all the this SJW fascism so they cannot target that so they are going after the in game myths so they are safe for women.
I find real life Greek myths pretty problematic as well. Someone should get to work rewriting those.
Quote from: Joey2k;1056955I find real life Greek myths pretty problematic as well. Someone should get to work rewriting those.
They think so. Their bullshit won't work with Glorantha. GS don't give a fuck what so,e twenty somethings think about his secondary world
SJWs despise myth and archetype. Because, you know, they're part of human reality. And human reality is deeply offensive to their fantasies.
Quote from: Joey2k;1056955I find real life Greek myths pretty problematic as well. Someone should get to work rewriting those.
You joke, but I got my first ban on RPGnet for defending my use of the Greek pantheon in a fantasy world. Apparently, since I can make a pantheon anything I like in a fantasy world, using the patriarchal Greek pantheon is a deliberate choice to be exclusionary. And as a long-time members of the site I surely knew that it was trying to be safe space for female gamers, my persistence in defending the Greek pantheon was hostile. 3-day ban. This was about 8 years ago.
Quote from: Haffrung;1057026You joke, but I got my first ban on RPGnet for defending my use of the Greek pantheon in a fantasy world. Apparently, since I can make a pantheon anything I like in a fantasy world, using the patriarchal Greek pantheon is a deliberate choice to be exclusionary. And as a long-time members of the site I surely knew that it was trying to be safe space for female gamers, my persistence in defending the Greek pantheon was hostile. 3-day ban. This was about 8 years ago.
I'm guessing you'd get an instant permaban just for setting your game in Medieval Europe these days due to all the patriarchy and Christian religious beliefs you'd be "championing" by not having gender-fluid neo-pagan Africans ruling over all the kingdoms of Medieval Europe... or something.
Quote from: Chris24601;1057045I'm guessing you'd get an instant permaban just for setting your game in Medieval Europe these days due to all the patriarchy and Christian religious beliefs you'd be "championing" by not having gender-fluid neo-pagan Africans ruling over all the kingdoms of Medieval Europe... or something.
As I said upthread, when
Paladin hits shelves, I expect the Usual Suspects at TBP to be quite disapproving.
Quote from: Lurtch;1056957They think so. Their bullshit won't work with Glorantha. GS don't give a fuck what so,e twenty somethings think about his secondary world
GS is not much more than a figure head in the new version of Chaosium. Also based on what I have just read on the Runequest facebook group the Orlanth cult has been re-written from a men only cult with a side door for women to a cult for everyone and a women only safe space. Given that and the recent version fof Masks I would say Chaosium packed with SJWs, I would expect myth rewrites in the not too distant future.
Quote from: Gagarth;1057104GS is not much more than a figure head in the new version of Chaosium. Also based on what I have just read on the Runequest facebook group the Orlanth cult has been re-written from a men only cult with a side door for women to a cult for everyone and a women only safe space. Given that and the recent version fof Masks I would say Chaosium packed with SJWs, I would expect myth rewrites in the not too distant future.
You need to ha e a reread. The weird rewrite had all of two positive comments and was otherwise ignored.
Quote from: Gagarth;1057104GS is not much more than a figure head in the new version of Chaosium. Also based on what I have just read on the Runequest facebook group the Orlanth cult has been re-written from a men only cult with a side door for women to a cult for everyone and a women only safe space. Given that and the recent version fof Masks I would say Chaosium packed with SJWs, I would expect myth rewrites in the not too distant future.
Who rewrote it? My leather bound Glorantha set doesn't have that nonsnse. Ignore the FB group.
Quote from: Gagarth;1056607Be honest you wouldn't buy Price of Freedom because you are a commie fuck and find it offensive because you have the same sort of Stalinist ideas as the Goldsmiths, University of London student group.
Actually I would describe myself as an Anarcho-Syndicalist and I find myself agreeing with Noam Chomsky, Michael Parenti, John Pilger and Julian Assange.
As for "commie fuck" and "Stalanist" that kind of language places you in the same league as the SJW's: i.e. smear, label and insult anybody that holds a different opinion than yourself.
Well done, mate. You're one of them.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057177Actually I would describe myself as an Anarcho-Syndicalist
You're in the spider mafia? :cool:
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057177Actually I would describe myself as an Anarcho-Syndicalist and I find myself agreeing with Noam Chomsky, Michael Parenti, John Pilger and Julian Assange.
As for "commie fuck" and "Stalanist" that kind of language places you in the same league as the SJW's: i.e. smear, label and insult anybody that holds a different opinion than yourself.
Well done, mate. You're one of them.
Gagarth has never, to my knoweldge, posted any thing to this forum that wasn't purely political.
He's basically just a troll hoping to find a sympathetic audience.
Quote from: TJS;1057185Gagarth has never posted, to my knoweldge, posted any thing to this forum that wasn't purely political.
He's basically just a troll hoping to find a sympathetic audience.
Thanks for the heads up. Appreciated.
I will get back on topic: one of the problems of making a city in a D&D campaign more palatable to ones moral and political sensibilities is that there's less for the PCs to do there.
Lankhmar is a fairly dystopian society and Port Blacksand was introduced in FF as a "City of Thieves".
In fact I would suggest that, unless the city is being used as a "safe haven" for the PC's between adventures ourside its walls, then the city must be dangerous and full of wrongs that need to be righted.
I think Pundit made this point about a supplement for MERP/TOR/AIMM that focused on Rivendale.
It would be ironic if the Waterdeep of Wonderful Politics was overturned by a group of Neutral Evil PCs that wanted to reintroduce prejudice and intolerance in order to divide and rule the city.
Quote from: TJS;1057185Gagarth has never, to my knoweldge, posted any thing to this forum that wasn't purely political.
.
Where is it stated that you have to make non-political posts and who made you the gatekeeper of this forum.
Do you even play RPGs?
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057192Thanks for the heads up. Appreciated.
I will get back on topic: one of the problems of making a city in a D&D campaign more palatable to ones moral and political sensibilities is that there's less for the PCs to do there.
Lankhmar is a fairly dystopian society and Port Blacksand was introduced in FF as a "City of Thieves".
In fact I would suggest that, unless the city is being used as a "safe haven" for the PC's between adventures ourside its walls, then the city must be dangerous and full of wrongs that need to be righted.
Yes. You run the risk of beings being purely reactive, with nothing much to do unless the DM is throwing threats to the status quo at the PCs for them to respond to.
It's funny that this is largely the same criticism that was often levelled at the Forgotten Realms during it's 2e heyday.
Quote from: Lurtch;1057114Who rewrote it? My leather bound Glorantha set doesn't have that nonsnse. Ignore the FB group.
The Guide to Glorantha information on Orlanthi gender roles does not go into a lot of detail but is based on information in from Hero Wars / Heroquest. In that line Orlantha and Ernalda are gendered cults based on the information in King of Sartar written by Greg Stafford. There are ways for other genders to enter the cults. Females can join Orlanth through Vinga and males can join Ernalda through Nandan, but they must join the sub-cults first. In Runequest roleplaying in Glorantha Vinga being the first stop for females joining Orlanth has been changed to a female only sub-cult, a nice safe space for women. Men can join Ernalda as initiates but not progress to God-talker (this could be argued) or Priestess. As usual SJWs are only really worried about genderisim when it effects women. All this very evident with the NPCs in the GM pack.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057198Do you even play RPGs?
Yes I have played RPGs for decades. I am surprised you have time to play since you probably spend most of your time trashing Starbucks coffee shops .
Quote from: TJS;1057199T..the DM is throwing threats to the status quo at the PCs for them to respond to.
Indeed, instead of forgeing your own domain (Conan) or overturning a tyranny (Hawkmoon) or setting the World to rights (Aragorn) you are running errands for the establishment. Both GM and PCs end up lacking agency or a chance to make a significant impact upon the imaginary world
Quote from: TJS;1057199It's funny that this is largely the same criticism that was often levelled at the Forgotten Realms during it's 2e heyday.
That fits. The lack of agency compunded with the infuriating high-level NPCs giving you lectures, grading your efforts and sending you on railroad missions.
All of which indicates that a Waterdeep of Wonderful Social Justice rules by Benevolent 30th level NPCs that send you on errands to protect the Socially Just Status Quo is a setting designed to appeal to conformists of the most extreme kind.
Rather than play the main protagonist of their own world, they must play the errand boy to the real heroes in a world that they have no say in and must pay plenty dollar for.
That is for the creatively impotent.
Quote from: Gagarth;1057201Yes I have played RPGs for decades. I am surprised you have time to play since you probably spend most of your time trashing Starbucks coffee shops .
I live in Italy so why the hell would I go to a Starbucks?:rolleyes:
Quote from: TJS;1057185Gagarth has never, to my knoweldge, posted any thing to this forum that wasn't purely political.
Why don't you click on my username and select view forum posts and then you would know.
Well that was two minutes of my life that I won't get back.:rolleyes:
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057203I live in Italy so why the hell would I go to a Starbucks?:rolleyes:
To trash it obviously.
Back on topic: How soon before WotC get into hot water from their own drivel about hate speech directed towards sufferers of mental illness?
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wbVRQIOuI8s/maxresdefault.jpg)
Quote from: Gagarth;1057208To trash it obviously.
Like you're doing with this thread?
Starbucks opened its first Italian branch in Italy two weeks ago you fucking moron.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/starbucks-italy-first-coffee-shop-milan-reserve-roastery-a8526971.html
I'm confused.
Are Starbucks an enemy of the left because they're an anti-unionist corporation or are they enemies of the right because they've gone all woke and introduced racial sensitivity training?
Or is it just their shit coffee that makes them evil?
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057202That fits. The lack of agency compunded with the infuriating high-level NPCs giving you lectures, grading your efforts and sending you on railroad missions.
All of which indicates that a Waterdeep of Wonderful Social Justice rules by Benevolent 30th level NPCs that send you on errands to protect the Socially Just Status Quo is a setting designed to appeal to conformists of the most extreme kind.
Rather than play the main protagonist of their own world, they must play the errand boy to the real heroes in a world that they have no say in and must pay plenty dollar for.
That is for the creatively impotent.
For those who don't have a copy and aren't reading what's in the actual adventure let me state very clearly that none of this is reflective of this particular product. Player agency is actually pretty good considering it is a 1st tier adventure. My main complaint other than "muh diversity" is that there aren't enough strong hooks for players to get involved beyond informing the City Watch.
Quote from: KingCheops;1057284For those who don't have a copy and aren't reading what's in the actual adventure let me state very clearly that none of this is reflective of this particular product. Player agency is actually pretty good considering it is a 1st tier adventure.
Well that's some good news at least. I am happy to be wrong.
Quote from: KingCheops;1057284aren't enough strong hooks for players to get involved beyond informing the City Watch.
Oh. Oh well then. Never mind.
Shame.
Quote from: Chris24601;1057045I'm guessing you'd get an instant permaban just for setting your game in Medieval Europe these days due to all the patriarchy and Christian religious beliefs you'd be "championing" by not having gender-fluid neo-pagan Africans ruling over all the kingdoms of Medieval Europe... or something.
Case in point, RPGnet has apparently refused to publish Lion & Dragon reviews that were posted to their reviews section.
Quote from: Chris24601;1057045I'm guessing you'd get an instant permaban just for setting your game in Medieval Europe these days due to all the patriarchy and Christian religious beliefs you'd be "championing" by not having gender-fluid neo-pagan Africans ruling over all the kingdoms of Medieval Europe... or something.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1057375Case in point, RPGnet has apparently refused to publish Lion & Dragon reviews that were posted to their reviews section.
You know, I actually kinda want to build that campaign now; where changeling priests of dark pagan gods have installed themselves through subversion and deceit as the "benevolent" (i.e. completely fascist) rulers of fantasy Europe in the High Middle Ages and the PCs are members of a secret rebellion against their shadow oppressors.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1057375Case in point, RPGnet has apparently refused to publish Lion & Dragon reviews that were posted to their reviews section.
It's their loss. By their, I mean those who filter their reviews for anything other than the material itself. They are indulging in censorship and their "community" will either accept that ot look elsewhere. IOW The Big Purple will eat itself.
L&D and ACKS are two of the best OSR products on the market in terms of value for money.
Let me ask you, Pundit: Were you to find out that Mike Mearls and you disagreed on politics, would you stop playing DCC?
I am pretty sure you wouldn't.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057210Like you're doing with this thread?
Starbucks opened its first Italian branch in Italy two weeks ago you fucking moron.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/starbucks-italy-first-coffee-shop-milan-reserve-roastery-a8526971.html
Starbucks is a metaphor for any capitalist target you leftie fucks like to attack to get your rocks off and supposedly further the cause of the proletariat, you dumb hoodie wearing fuck. You lot attack physical targets the same way SJWs attack reputations and products online to create their SJW Utopia.
Quote from: Gagarth;1057393Starbucks is a metaphor for any capitalist target you leftie fucks like to attack to get your rocks off and supposedly further the cause of the proletariat, you dumb hoodie wearing fuck. You lot attack physical targets the same way SJWs attack reputations and products online to create their SJW Utopia.
We have had actual Antifa on this board. Save this stuff for them.
Quote from: S'mon;1057394We have had actual Antifa on this board. Save this stuff for them.
Indeed. Well said. Thank you.
Quote from: Gagarth;1057393Starbucks is a metaphor for any capitalist target you leftie fucks like to attack to get your rocks off and supposedly further the cause of the proletariat, you dumb hoodie wearing fuck. You lot attack physical targets the same way SJWs attack reputations and products online to create their SJW Utopia.
What the Ever-Loving Fuck?
Quote from: jeff37923;1057396What the Ever-Loving Fuck?
I am inspired to write an adventure in Waterdeep in which the players have to kill a mermaid queen living in the bay called Buckstar. Her minions are a band of pirates called Shipsters who dress even worse than the prat in the hat on the cover of Dragon Heist
Quote from: jeff37923;1057396What the Ever-Loving Fuck?
https://goo.gl/images/MyHBK5
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057384Let me ask you, Pundit: Were you to find out that Mike Mearls and you disagreed on politics, would you stop playing DCC?
I am pretty sure you wouldn't.
DCC is Joseph Goodman's baby of Goodman Games, not Mike Mearls'. And Goodman Games have, as yet, eschewed political preaching in their games while letting their authors and artists be up front about their personal politics. Which, I think, is a classy row to hoe.
Quote from: KingofElfland;1057404DCC is Joseph Goodman's baby of Goodman Games, not Mike Mearls'. And Goodman Games have, as yet, eschewed political preaching in their games while letting their authors and artists be up front about their personal politics. Which, I think, is a classy row to hoe.
I did not know that. I agree with you, that is classy.
Quote from: KingofElfland;1057404DCC is Joseph Goodman's baby of Goodman Games, not Mike Mearls'. And Goodman Games have, as yet, eschewed political preaching in their games while letting their authors and artists be up front about their personal politics. Which, I think, is a classy row to hoe.
Doesn't Goodman Games use William McAusland's art? Austland's own game, Mutant Epoch is filled to the brim with rape references (look at their Pitford guide--every hotel/hostel/bar has some random chance of sexual assault, and then the brothels have some interesting details too) that would no doubt trigger a SJW within 10 pages. It's still a fun game though, and I've used Pitford as a Mos Eisley replacement on a pirate controlled world in Star Wars to great effect.
Quote from: S'mon;1057394We have had actual Antifa on this board. Save this stuff for them.
Hooded and masked anti-capitalist anarchists were trashing property before Antifa surfaced.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Noam_Chomsky%2C_2004.jpg/220px-Noam_Chomsky%2C_2004.jpg)
Terrifying.
(https://maverickmedia.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/parenti-sf-2010a.jpg)
You can just see the violence.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNDY4YzE3OTYtODU4Yy00NDNhLTgxNDctYzU4NzE3ODBhYmI2L2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDkzNTM2ODg@._V1_UY317_CR176,0,214,317_AL_.jpg)
OMFG!
Run for your lives!
The evil mermaid Buckstar that lives in a secret lair off Waterdeep's Coast.
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/001/267/806/large/sana-farooq-mermaid.jpg?1443304572)
The captain of the pirate crew the Shipsters that hijacked a ship and dumped its tea into the bay so that all citizens of Waterdeep had to drink their shitty coffee and milk drinks instead.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5a/08/56/5a08567a03f6a7c229d7840ec36bb122.jpg)
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057487(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5a/08/56/5a08567a03f6a7c229d7840ec36bb122.jpg)
Who is the artist of this one? i really like it.
Borislav Mitkov
Bulgarian artist and yeah I ike his stuff a lot.
I'd hire him.
https://www.artstation.com/bmitkov
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/LWe1w
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1055903If you want to culture-jam 5e just make sure you stick to human paladin, set fire to anyone/anything that falls outside of conformity with your God, and remember the phrase : "My armour is contempt. My shield is disgust. My sword is hatred. In God's name, let none survive."
I love it.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;1055903If you want to culture-jam 5e just make sure you stick to human paladin, set fire to anyone/anything that falls outside of conformity with your God, and remember the phrase : "My armour is contempt. My shield is disgust. My sword is hatred. In God's name, let none survive."
I want that quote on a t-shirt. Fucking bad-
ass!
Waterdeep ain't anything like Seattle 2018. It's got more gay representation in the first two chapters than a local Starbucks, and a Trans Druid.
Can I rant for a sec? Thanks.
WHAT THE FUCK IS A BLOODY DRUID DOING WITHOUT A GENDER/SEX? They're about NATURE, and transgender is NOT NATURAL, which is different than wrong, but that's not the point of this. Secondly, as a follower of Corellon who is neither gender, to have the UNMITIGATED GALL AND SHEER EGO of trying to be as genderless as a deity? One that kicked the elves out? Ego much? Fala is lucky Corellon doesn't smite their presumptous ass into a fine powder and give to Mielikki or probably more appropriately Rillifane Rallathil to dust the crops! Fucking hell, do they even care about their setting? Or just raping it to fit their bigoted ideology???
And what freakin' year is it? You speak of spellplague and spell fire and Laeral having been the Open Lord and in the same breath you speak of Mirt The Merciless, as if he's the original, despite the cheesy reason as to why Durnan is immortal, he should be DEAD! He's a human former thief! And the fuck with all 18 physical stats for an obese man? And his wife, from Second edition, just recently died? What, she was secretly an elf? Not according to your lore!
Oh, and speaking of Durnan, do you even read your own bloody lore? The man was known as 'The Thinking Man's Barbarian', fine you want to make him an asshole who murders his clientele, whatever, but an 18 Strength and Constitution does not look like the rat-faced rogue on the cover of Tales From The Yawning Portal, that fool couldn't lift a bloody D&D greatsword much less swing it. If anything, he should look like an aged Conan with short hair! Fucking hell, people. Read your stuff! You're all over the damn time line!
Bloody hell.
/Rant
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1057581Waterdeep ain't anything like Seattle 2018. It's got more gay representation in the first two chapters than a local Starbucks, and a Trans Druid.
Can I rant for a sec? Thanks.
WHAT THE FUCK IS A BLOODY DRUID DOING WITHOUT A GENDER/SEX? They're about NATURE, and transgender is NOT NATURAL, which is different than wrong, but that's not the point of this. Secondly, as a follower of Corellon who is neither gender, to have the UNMITIGATED GALL AND SHEER EGO of trying to be as genderless as a deity? One that kicked the elves out? Ego much? Fala is lucky Corellon doesn't smite their presumptous ass into a fine powder and give to Mielikki or probably more appropriately Rillifane Rallathil to dust the crops! Fucking hell, do they even care about their setting? Or just raping it to fit their bigoted ideology???
And what freakin' year is it? You speak of spellplague and spell fire and Laeral having been the Open Lord and in the same breath you speak of Mirt The Merciless, as if he's the original, despite the cheesy reason as to why Durnan is immortal, he should be DEAD! He's a human former thief! And the fuck with all 18 physical stats for an obese man? And his wife, from Second edition, just recently died? What, she was secretly an elf? Not according to your lore!
Oh, and speaking of Durnan, do you even read your own bloody lore? The man was known as 'The Thinking Man's Barbarian', fine you want to make him an asshole who murders his clientele, whatever, but an 18 Strength and Constitution does not look like the rat-faced rogue on the cover of Tales From The Yawning Portal, that fool couldn't lift a bloody D&D greatsword much less swing it. If anything, he should look like an aged Conan with short hair! Fucking hell, people. Read your stuff! You're all over the damn time line!
Bloody hell.
/Rant
In fairness, transgender is natural for clown fish and other sequentially hermaphroditic species, but then again it isn't exactly natural for a human being to transform into a clown fish (let alone a tree, or a dinosaur).
D&D druids aren't about nature though. D&D druids are about NATURE!!1
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057486(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Noam_Chomsky%2C_2004.jpg/220px-Noam_Chomsky%2C_2004.jpg)
Terrifying.
(https://maverickmedia.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/parenti-sf-2010a.jpg)
You can just see the violence.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNDY4YzE3OTYtODU4Yy00NDNhLTgxNDctYzU4NzE3ODBhYmI2L2ltYWdlXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDkzNTM2ODg@._V1_UY317_CR176,0,214,317_AL_.jpg)
OMFG!
Run for your lives!
Stop posting images of faeces on this list.
This is what you really should have posted
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2937[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2938[/ATTACH]
Quote from: Gagarth;1057585Stop posting images of faeces on this list.
You were having a good run there, a streak of 6s, maybe even a 7, but alas it seems to have fizzled out.
This one is really more of a 2.
Quote from: TJS;1057587You were having a good run there, a streak of 7s, maybe even an 8, but alas it seems to have fizzled out.
This one is really more of a 2.
Oh, look the peanut gallery has chimed in.
Quote from: Gagarth;1057588Oh, look the peanut gallery has chimed in.
As opposed to the nut gallery.
I would be quite happy to discuss our political differences elsewhere, but here is not the place.
Capisci?
Quote from: Gagarth;1057196Where is it stated that you have to make non-political posts and who made you the gatekeeper of this forum.
Take a look at the top of the page, where it says
Rules.
"This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule:
do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming.So talking about the topics related to game settings and other things mentioned in the OP video: Ok.
Getting sidetracked into non-gaming related political generalizations and basically shitting up one of Pundit's threads: Surprised you guys haven't been warned by a mod already.
Quote from: Gagarth;1057588Oh, look the peanut gallery has chimed in.
Dude, I'm not really fond of Leftists and their wankery either,
BUT YOU ARE NOT HELPING.Tone it the fuck down, use your brain, and post political only crap in the Pundit's forum. What you doing now is just embarrassing yourself.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057384It's their loss. By their, I mean those who filter their reviews for anything other than the material itself. They are indulging in censorship and their "community" will either accept that ot look elsewhere. IOW The Big Purple will eat itself.
L&D and ACKS are two of the best OSR products on the market in terms of value for money.
Let me ask you, Pundit: Were you to find out that Mike Mearls and you disagreed on politics, would you stop playing DCC?
I am pretty sure you wouldn't.
Did you mean to write D&D? Because if I disagreed on politics with Mearls, I definitely wouldn't stop playing DCC!
Quote from: Gagarth;1057196Where is it stated that you have to make non-political posts and who made you the gatekeeper of this forum.
You can't post anything political outside of the RPG hobby on this main forum.
Quote from: Cave Bear;1057584In fairness, transgender is natural for clown fish and other sequentially hermaphroditic species, but then again it isn't exactly natural for a human being to transform into a clown fish (let alone a tree, or a dinosaur).
D&D druids aren't about nature though. D&D druids are about NATURE!!1
MOST species on the planet are sexually dimorphic, and to deny that is to deny NATURE! Druids as a class respect NATURE. Says so. In fact, in older editions it prevents players from using most metal objects as part of the class, because forged metal is considered unnatural.
And that's ignoring the fact that this speshul snoflak of a character believes that 'they' are so important that 'they' can mimic a God in not having a gender. A God that apparently kicked all the Elves out of the happy place for being Elves.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1057723Because if I disagreed on politics with Mearls, I definitely wouldn't stop playing DCC!
That is what I meant and that is what I thought. :cool:
So why would anybody stop playing ACKS because of something unrelated to the game? It's not as if the game contains anything political anyway. The tropes it uses are the same as Dungeon World, so even a political science major can't start pointing to them saying "patriarchy" like Donal Sutherland's doppleganger.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3CYrt77iU90aucloC5/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057732That is what I meant and that is what I thought. :cool:
So why would anybody stop playing ACKS because of something unrelated to the game? It's not as if the game contains anything political anyway. The tropes it uses are the same as Dungeon World, so even a political science major can't start pointing to them saying "patriarchy" like Donal Sutherland's doppleganger.
I think you're confused.
Dungeon Crawl Classics was written and produced by Goodwin Games with no input from Mike Mearls at all. All Mike Mearls has done is contribute some content to the re-release of some classic D&D modules that Goodwin Games has licensed the use of. You could easily play DCC while contributing NOTHING to Mearls or WotC simply by avoiding those modules.
My bad. Indeed I confused the DDC rules with its contributed modules authors.
My question should have been, should the political opinions of Joeseph Goodman differ from your own would you stop playing DCC?
My answer is "no"
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057739My answer is "no"
My answer is it depends on the political opinion. Some political issues are less existential than others.
There's a big difference between "what is the most effective means of maintaining a social safety net for those who can't take care of themselves" and "all whites (or blacks or Christians) need to die."
I would say that your example "all whites (or blacks or Christians) need to die." is extreme but I guess were somebody a genocidal maniac, they wouldn't be getting my money.
The problem is SJWs and some other groups is the way that a difference in political opinion is siezed upon as evidence of being .....well..... a genocidal maniac.
The idea that MRA are Nazis or equatable to Nazis is absurd but my own political opinion (socialist libertarian)was enough for somebody here to imagine that I smash up coffee shops.
I mean, that's the kinda crap that had Charlie Chaplin chased out of the country. It's also the crap that is spouted by SJWs that all Trump supporters are racists or the crap in the UK that all Brexiters are racists.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1057725You can't post anything political outside of the RPG hobby on this main forum.
That was a response to TJS repeating gatekeeping attempts he had made in your forum implying that no one could post in your forum unless they posted in this forum first.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057753The idea that MRA are Nazis or equatable to Nazis is absurd but my own political opinion (socialist libertarian)was enough for somebody here to imagine that I smash up coffee shops.
No it was your blustering about The Price of Freedom.
Quote from: Gagarth;1057879That was a response to TJS repeating gatekeeping attempts he had made in your forum implying that no one could post in your forum unless they posted in this forum first.
Bullshit.
Freedom to behave like an ass means others also have the freedom to point it out.
Quote from: Mike the Mage;1057739My bad. Indeed I confused the DDC rules with its contributed modules authors.
My question should have been, should the political opinions of Joeseph Goodman differ from your own would you stop playing DCC?
My answer is "no"
My answer is that if the designer/publisher had different political views than my own (for example, Venger Satanis has some different political views from my own, or James Raggi has different political views from my own) that in and of itself is not enough for me not to purchase their games.
If a designer/publisher has different political views from my own and their games are absolutely infused with those politics, and their public position is one of open hostility toward me or people like me for any number of reasons, then I probably wouldn't buy their games because their games would be shit and it would be giving money to people who despise me and people like me.