Quote from: Haffrung;1055831Then he gushes over how the book is tremendously immersive and original because the author explains that Waterdeep has four seasons and describes in a sentence or so what each of those season feels like - and those seasons correspond to those of the Pacific Northwest. What astonishing creativity and imagination!

To be fair, the Oceanic climate zone also applies to most of Northwestern Europe (ex. London, Paris, Normandy, Dublin, etc.) and Waterdeep actually does reside in the upper middle latitudes on the Western coast of a Northern Hemisphere continent; exactly where you'd expect to find an Oceanic climate zone.

Not everyone who lives in say, Texas (significant wet and dry seasons) or New York (significant variations in temperature depending on time of year including LOTS of snowfall), appreciates what different climate zones are like. Prime example was one of my players back in the day who moved from Texas to Indiana with his parents. I asked him what he had for winter gear because it was coming up; he said he was fully prepared for winter, he had his (lightweight) leather jacket AND a scarf too. The rest of the group kept quiet after that, but then laughed and laughed and laughed at his expense when he was stuck waiting outside in 20 degree weather for 10 minutes huddled in his jacket and scarf looking miserable and as he exclaimed he didn't know it could even GET that cold.

Frankly, in my own work I was planning on including information about the climate specifically because of how it impacts the use of heavy armor, planting and harvest seasons and various other elements of life in a semi-medieval setting and because having a baseline lets them know when something supernatural is influencing the weather. In my campaign world many powerful supernatural creatures are able to influence the environment just by their presence so knowing that a week without any rainfall and temperatures in the 90's is extremely unseasonal even in the summer months is actually an important clue for PCs living in my sandbox that something supernatural linked to fire has probably made a lair nearby within the last couple of months and maybe they should start investigating as, left unchecked, the regions around powerful elemental fire creatures eventually become as parched and scorchingly hot as the Sahara and even the ground water begins to boil eventually (resulting in volcanic fissures, steam vents and geysers).

Quote from: S'mon;1056101I guess my feeling is that excessive socjus gives me another excuse not to buy books I probably wouldn't have used much anyway. I've had surprisingly little use out of Volo's, Xanathar's, or the third party monster books I bought - 5e feels very complete in three books. And WoTC have a tradition of producing pretty crappy adventure books; Tales From the Yawning Portal manages to be inferior to the stuff it was converted from, even for use in 5e.

I actually found Xanathar's to be extremely useful. The two PC's I actually played 5e with were a College of Swords Bard (the flourishes are fun) and a Celestial Warlock (who, as long as the group got one short rest in a day, could compete with a Life Cleric for healing ability), neither of which could be made using just the core three books. But, different strokes, different folks.

Quote from: Chris24601;1056133To be fair, the Oceanic climate zone also applies to most of Northwestern Europe (ex. London, Paris, Normandy, Dublin, etc.) and Waterdeep actually does reside in the upper middle latitudes on the Western coast of a Northern Hemisphere continent; exactly where you'd expect to find an Oceanic climate zone.

I agree that climate is an important aspect of a game setting, and really should be mentioned in a city book - at least so far as it impacts the way people in the city live in meaningful ways.  (Just as long as it doesn't bang on about obvious stuff like in "winter people tend to dress in warm clothes.")

It just seems odd that the review would bring this out for special praise - to me it should be more of a baseline of competence.  (And nothing, in the review at least, suggests it goes beyond that).

It's would be like if someone published a glowing review of an adventure because the "NPCs have motivations".

RPGPundit, please transfer this thread to your forum. It's clearly become a politics discussion and needs some quality profanity.

I'm happy to respond to people (or go for max LOLZ via poo flinging), but this ain't a RPG thread anymore.

Quote from: TJS;1056167I agree that climate is an important aspect of a game setting, and really should be mentioned in a city book - at least so far as it impacts the way people in the city live in meaningful ways..

Agreed. Lankhmar is known for its cloying humidity. Bland vanilla climate is just laziness but tbf weather and climate can easily be overlooked in urban settings.

A few real world examples can be stolen

Take for example Torshavn in the Faroe Islands:  840 hours of sun per year and even in the summer, average temperatures only creep up to 11 degrees Celsius/52 degrees Fahrenheit.

I saw this Waterdeep book on the shelf at Books-a-Million yesterday and flipped through it. Not a lot of art or maps (except the big one that was folded into the back), and not a lot of monster stuff either. What was there were big blocks of text. I only gave it about 5 minutes of my attention, but nothing reached out and made me want to take the book home.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1056206I saw this Waterdeep book on the shelf at Books-a-Million yesterday and flipped through it. Not a lot of art or maps (except the big one that was folded into the back), and not a lot of monster stuff either. What was there were big blocks of text. I only gave it about 5 minutes of my attention, but nothing reached out and made me want to take the book home.

Yes climate is important for establish a sense of place, which helps immersion.  But it should have practical consequences too (which also help further reinforce immersion).  If the city is in a cold climate and has a river through the middle of it - does that river freeze over in the winter (This could well affect a chase scene - or maybe they have annual ice-fairs)?   If it gets really cold in winter does the market scale down and move inside during the winter months (it may be harder to get many kinds of items).  If it's really hot, do people sleep outside on their roofs as in some middle eastern countries (this is going to affect a rooftop chase or stealthy entry)?  And that's before we start thinking about the fantasy consequences - does a city by a lake have lookout towers to warn people in the summer months of incoming stirge swarms so they can head inside and lock the doors.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1055980Why would anyone assume someone holds the views presented in their work?

Because they lack the brain power to assume otherwise, or have some sort of agenda.

Quote from: Gagarth;1056006Roll20 has,within the last two days,  changed their code of conduct regarding inclusivity.

Holy shit that's infuriatingly hypocritical.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1055980Why would anyone assume someone holds the views presented in their work?

I'll quote the article I linked to.

QuoteThis makes The Price of Freedom something of an oddity, a conservative game designed by a non-conservative designer wishing to sell games to conservatives.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1056289Because they lack the brain power to assume otherwise, or have some sort of agenda.

What agenda does  Juhana Pettersson have? Well the author writes

QuoteWe're not politically conservative,

AHA! There it is. The agenda. Not politically conservative is what the agenda is.

You were right, Adderlan!

That's what I like about you: smart and not a whiff of an agenda of your own, either.

I don't buy the Team Red hates ideas while Team Blue hates people. Everybody fucking hates everybody. That's how humans roll. Nothing new about that.

Quote from: Gagarth;1056006The rot is spreading further from the setting to who you want to game with. Roll20 has,within the last two days,  changed their code of conduct regarding inclusivity.

Could you explain this? Maybe I'm dense.

I'm not familiar with the situation on Roll20. Were people seeking players of particular genetics instead of game interest? Isn't their stance against tokenism a good thing? I would find it VERY creepy if a player invite was based on your skin color, your pants junk or where you like to put your junk.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1056299I don't buy the Team Red hates ideas while Team Blue hates people. Everybody fucking hates everybody. That's how humans roll. Nothing new about that.

QFT.

As regards inclusivity in games, I think for many gamers like myself, it is whoever wants to play and make the sessions regularly. Apart from basic courtesy fitting of an adult guest at somebody else's house, er...that's it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1056299Could you explain this? Maybe I'm dense.

I'm not familiar with the situation on Roll20. Were people seeking players of particular genetics instead of game interest? Isn't their stance against tokenism a good thing? I would find it VERY creepy if a player invite was based on your skin color, your pants junk or where you like to put your junk.

People were posting games that were exclusively for women or LGBTIA+ according to the original Code of Conduct this was not allowed but went unsanctioned by the mods even when these posting were questioned. With the new wording they are explicit, it is fine and dandy to exclude straight white guys from your game. Also now if one of the "oppressed" i.e. anyone who is not a straight white guy does not get accepted to game they can sic the mods onto the GM.


Was the  "particularly towards those that face systemic oppression" to subtle for you?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1056299I don't buy the Team Red hates ideas while Team Blue hates people. Everybody fucking hates everybody. That's how humans roll. Nothing new about that.

Yeah that is a crazy idea. I do not know who you are arguing with though.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1056299I don't buy the Team Red hates ideas while Team Blue hates people. Everybody fucking hates everybody. That's how humans roll. Nothing new about that.

Sure, there are hateful people of all ideologies and there are tolerant people of all ideologies. I don't want to draw a false equivalency though. Leftists, including a great many far left extremists, have no trouble hosting events to further their ideologies, all too often paid for by tax payers. Conservatives, though, have trouble having events or meeting because leftists extremists show up and attack people. This often happens even with very moderate barely conservative people or events - like Ben Shapiro.

Maybe I'm in the wrong hobbies, but I haven't noticed almost everything I'm interested in being dominated by a bunch of right wingers saying that if you don't except the tenants of Nazism or Christian Dominionism then you need to be bullied out of those hobbies. I've never had a bunch of Christian extremists trying to dox me for being openly an atheist, in fact just about all of the fundamentalist Christians I know and talk to have been very tolerant. I have had leftist cyber-stalking me trying to dox me for being right wing though. I'm not alone in that, doxxing people and trying to get people fired, expelled, or generally terrorized is an extremely common leftist tactic now.

So some conservatives are hateful, sure, but they are sufficiently few in number and/or moderate in animosity that they have relatively little impact. They same can't be said about the left.

Quote from: Naburimannu;1056075It could be the latter which are most widely broadcast - but by all means there has never been uniformity behind the "Punch a Nazi" messages.

Was not the original quote that half of Trump's supporters are ... deplorables?

That's correct, she said that half of the 63 million people who voted for Trump are "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic". And 65 million people -- comprised entirely of those who you claim are more reasonable -- nevertheless voted for someone who said that.

And now gaming companies are jumping on that same quotewagon, and tacitly supporting those who "punch nazi's", and meanwhile shoving the ideology that's used to justify "punching nazi's" right down the gullet of the gaming community.

I'll believe that there isn't tacit agreement with leftist extremism when those 65 million voters speak up and take a stand against it, instead of voting for the people who espouse it (or purchasing their gaming products).

Quote from: ShieldWife;1056336Sure, there are hateful people of all ideologies and there are tolerant people of all ideologies. I don't want to draw a false equivalency though. Leftists, including a great many far left extremists, have no trouble hosting events to further their ideologies, all too often paid for by tax payers. Conservatives, though, have trouble having events or meeting because leftists extremists show up and attack people. This often happens even with very moderate barely conservative people or events - like Ben Shapiro.

Maybe I'm in the wrong hobbies, but I haven't noticed almost everything I'm interested in being dominated by a bunch of right wingers saying that if you don't except the tenants of Nazism or Christian Dominionism then you need to be bullied out of those hobbies. I've never had a bunch of Christian extremists trying to dox me for being openly an atheist, in fact just about all of the fundamentalist Christians I know and talk to have been very tolerant. I have had leftist cyber-stalking me trying to dox me for being right wing though. I'm not alone in that, doxxing people and trying to get people fired, expelled, or generally terrorized is an extremely common leftist tactic now.

So some conservatives are hateful, sure, but they are sufficiently few in number and/or moderate in animosity that they have relatively little impact. They same can't be said about the left.

I think that's about right, with the proviso that there are lots of horrible apolitical people on the Internet too. When they are being mean to women & other Protected Groups, the socjus people assume they are Right Wing and of course emblematic of Systemic Oppression.

But there aren't many genuinely conservative people who are horrible. There are some self-described Alt-Right who are pretty bad (& some who aren't).