Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 21, 2022, 02:42:26 PM

Quote from: Zelen on April 20, 2022, 02:54:59 PM
this terminology is fairly logical once you understand the real root/reference of the term in the game.

Really? We're actually having this conversation? How is a tribe of mixed-race indigenous people relevant to deformed werewolf incest babies? On one hand, that's horrifically offensive cultural appropriation (imagine if the deformed werewolf incest babies were called teutons, slavs, jews, yankees, romani, or any other name for a real ethnic group). On the other, it's not logical or clever because outbreeding and inbreeding are opposites. It would be much more logical to call the deformed werewolf incest babies "sawney beans."

Quote from: Zelen on April 20, 2022, 02:54:59 PM
I mean, I think WW are wankers but you just seem to be looking for a reason to be upset here.

Maybe so, but it's not like that's hard to find. This is low-hanging fruit and ShieldWife already mentioned the big apples earlier.

Honestly, I'm not even really upset about that. Horrified? Disgusted? Certainly. Like, one of the books includes a magic ritual where the participants must have furry sex. There is just so much disgusting stuff in those books.

Some of it is intended to be profound but comes off as lulzy. One of the books recounts the feminist fairytale that men formed patriarchy after learning where babies come from as historical fact and goes on to complain about how all human cultural heroes are actually evil patriarchs who murdered all the good matriarchs and demonized them as literal monsters in myths (e.g. the gorgons are claimed as actually being werewolf heroines murdered by patriarchy). That's the absolute laziest and poorly educated feminist reimagining of myth and history that I've ever come across.

And, again, they did try to invent a cool made-up name for deformed werewolf incest babies. How does somebody get to that point? That's bad enough by itself, but the fans are actually complaining that W5 is removing them from continuity. Again: these fans are upset that deformed werewolf incest babies named after a real ethnic group are being taken out of continuity. If I'm looking for reasons to be upset, then so are they and they're even worse at it than I am.

It's more exhausting to me than anything else. The books are full of so much deranged shit that trying to dredge it up makes me sad and depressed.

Quote from: ShieldWife on April 21, 2022, 12:30:34 PM
Leftism hasn't been about overthrowing oppressive aristocrats in a century.

Maybe so, but I can't think of many other reasons that "eat the rich" would be enshrined in the rules and setting. That wasn't a thing in Anne Rice, or indeed any other vampire fiction. Vampires in Anne Rice used very vaguely defined power levels where vampires grew more powerful with age but could transfuse/sacrifice their power to increase the power of weaker vampires and to create new vampires, and the power of new vampires was a fraction of their maker's so more powerful makers produced more powerful new vampires. This was a plot point in The Vampire Lestat where the Children of Satan had rules about it and despised Lestat because he was a gary stu too powerful for his young age.

If you reread what Zelen said in the post that kicked off this side combo you'll notice that the actual origin for the name "Metis" is a French word with Latin roots. And it's been awhile since I read Werewolf, but IIRC Metis were not 100% the product of incest per se (though, they were culturally considered as such within werewolf society), but of werewolves breeding with other werewolves, rather than with either wolves or humans.

Which... honestly, I don't care. I'm not gonna get offended that they decided to include some quasi-incestuous breed of werewolves as part of their lore, that aren't even 100% the product of incest, but rather some weird, setting specific Werewolf rule.

And how can you possibly be "not even really upset about that" yet simultaneously be "Horrified? Disgusted? Certainly."? How can you even be horrified and disgusted by something, but not upset by it? How does that even work?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 21, 2022, 02:42:26 PM
Honestly, I'm not even really upset about that. Horrified? Disgusted? Certainly. Like, one of the books includes a magic ritual where the participants must have furry sex.

LOL won't, someone, think of the children!?

Luckily nobody gives a shit what you like or don't otherwise we'd all be playing patty-cake with multi-colored eunuch-corns.

You big girl's blouse.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 21, 2022, 07:25:35 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 21, 2022, 02:42:26 PM
Honestly, I'm not even really upset about that. Horrified? Disgusted? Certainly. Like, one of the books includes a magic ritual where the participants must have furry sex.

LOL won't, someone, think of the children!?

Luckily nobody gives a shit what you like or don't otherwise we'd all be playing patty-cake with multi-colored eunuch-corns.

You big girl's blouse.

Oddly enough people can dislike something, find it morally reprehensible or otherwise repugnant. You should find weird furry shit gross. But you don't. Which says more about you than anything else. That shit should be done in the privacy of one's own home and not enacted in a public group. I'm not even all that conservative but I'm fed up with people just nodding their head to degeneracy. We live in clown world because god forbid we judge a sick fuck as a sick fuck.

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 22, 2022, 08:12:17 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 21, 2022, 07:25:35 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 21, 2022, 02:42:26 PM
Honestly, I'm not even really upset about that. Horrified? Disgusted? Certainly. Like, one of the books includes a magic ritual where the participants must have furry sex.

LOL won't, someone, think of the children!?

Luckily nobody gives a shit what you like or don't otherwise we'd all be playing patty-cake with multi-colored eunuch-corns.

You big girl's blouse.

Oddly enough people can dislike something, find it morally reprehensible or otherwise repugnant. You should find weird furry shit gross. But you don't. Which says more about you than anything else. That shit should be done in the privacy of one's own home and not enacted in a public group. I'm not even all that conservative but I'm fed up with people just nodding their head to degeneracy. We live in clown world because god forbid we judge a sick fuck as a sick fuck.

Please do infer that I looooove furries. LOL You thick fuck.

Furries are morons but why do you even give a toss if they bang each other? Are they destroying the world? Don't like it don't read it.

Far more dangerous are far-right conservative Christians that want to try to ban and control everything others do. I piss on your bible. Truth be told you are just another homophobe who is terrified that the US and A will be 'infected'.

Of course, I'm not having a go at the more sensible and moderate Christians out there, just the bedwetters like yourself and that other twonk.

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 22, 2022, 08:12:17 AM
I'm not even all that conservative but I'm fed up with people just nodding their head to degeneracy. We live in clown world because god forbid we judge a sick fuck as a sick fuck.

And this right here is why all the woke nonsense in rpgs (and everywhere in the broader culture) is going to lead to the mother of all pendulum backswings and the most woke (like WotC and Paradox) will be the hardest hit.

My money is on the upcoming D&D 6e (even though they'll try to claim its still 5e) as the point where the backswing begins in earnest... 5e's core books are mostly woke-free and so many customers just aren't exposed to all the crazy in the supplements or that the creators spew online. Once the woke garbage is front and center in the core books though is when the customer base walks away en mass (instead of the current trickle).

The other thing I'm going to predict is thd backswing won't translate to people who aren't already roleplayers picking up alternative systems; it's just going to collapse the whole market as those people take their entertainment dollars elsewhere.

I've always found Werewolf: the Apocalypse to be the most objectionable of the WW game lines. I'm actually a supporter of environmentalism, but getting beaten over the head with over the top Captain Planet propaganda was just obnoxious. Plus with the Wyrm basically representing the right wing (as I referred to in the Book of the Wyrm) and the various leftist politics of the Tribes. The furry bestiality fetish stuff was also a little unsettling.

Years ago, I was involved in an online play by post game run by my husband in his own custom made setting which was similar in many ways to the World of Darkness, with some of the same creature types and some new ones, including werewolves. The werewolves weren't W:tA Garou though and had no Lupus Garou and no wolf sex, which caused one of the players to complain.

I don't want to attack anybody's fetishes, but has always been unsettling to me that werewolves, who have human intelligence, are supposed to have sex with and reproduce with wolves. It's way stranger than the incest analogue with the Metis, which isn't actually incest at all.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 22, 2022, 08:24:02 AM
Far more dangerous are far-right conservative Christians that want to try to ban and control everything others do. I piss on your bible. Truth be told you are just another homophobe who is terrified that the US and A will be 'infected'.

What far right is this you're talking about? It's been decades since the right (with minor exceptions) wanted to censor anything and it's likewise been decades that the default leftist position has been to censor things which go against their ideology. In fact, usually if "conservatives" want to censor something these days, it's because they have been influenced by the left and are censoring something that they perceive as being too far right.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 22, 2022, 08:24:02 AM

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 22, 2022, 08:12:17 AM

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 21, 2022, 07:25:35 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 21, 2022, 02:42:26 PM
Honestly, I'm not even really upset about that. Horrified? Disgusted? Certainly. Like, one of the books includes a magic ritual where the participants must have furry sex.

LOL won't, someone, think of the children!?

Luckily nobody gives a shit what you like or don't otherwise we'd all be playing patty-cake with multi-colored eunuch-corns.

You big girl's blouse.

Oddly enough people can dislike something, find it morally reprehensible or otherwise repugnant. You should find weird furry shit gross. But you don't. Which says more about you than anything else. That shit should be done in the privacy of one's own home and not enacted in a public group. I'm not even all that conservative but I'm fed up with people just nodding their head to degeneracy. We live in clown world because god forbid we judge a sick fuck as a sick fuck.

Please do infer that I looooove furries. LOL You thick fuck.

Furries are morons but why do you even give a toss if they bang each other? Are they destroying the world? Don't like it don't read it.

Far more dangerous are far-right conservative Christians that want to try to ban and control everything others do. I piss on your bible. Truth be told you are just another homophobe who is terrified that the US and A will be 'infected'.

Of course, I'm not having a go at the more sensible and moderate Christians out there, just the bedwetters like yourself and that other twonk.

Saying "hey man, cut that shit out. This is a public place." is not a political or religious statement. It's not about being gay or straight or whatever. Seeing weird shit in an RPG and saying "Oh man, that's fucking revolting. What the fuck?" isn't either. Nor is it "controlling people". Or are the very concept of laws a fascist statement to you?  I'm not even American. I don't know what weird shit happens there.  But for fuck's sake, we have drag queens walking around town with their dicks out reading stories to kids and advocating for genital mutilation. And it all started with people getting afraid of being "bigots" for telling that weirdo in the LGS to stop going on about his bestiality kink. And that guy deciding to write a book with his kink front and center. Which tells the other degenerates that they're fine to do whatever they want and in public too. Because people like you shout down anyone who just wants to get on with their day without seeing a fucking furry orgy in their RPG book. That is not a left/right issue. It is not political. It's not even sexual. It's normal people versus weird fetishists.  Oh so terrible. So bigoted.  People are allowed to be disgusted by things and not want to see them in their daily lives.  That's normal. The average person doesn't want to read about some fucked up furry orgy.  And people are starting to care less and less about being called whatever the fuck you want to strawman in your head. What is even the point of an author showing his barely disguised fetish in an RPG book? God forbid people actually want to play an RPG.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 22, 2022, 08:24:02 AM
Furries are morons but why do you even give a toss if they bang each other? Are they destroying the world? Don't like it don't read it.

Far more dangerous are far-right conservative Christians that want to try to ban and control everything others do. I piss on your bible. Truth be told you are just another homophobe who is terrified that the US and A will be 'infected'.

Of course, I'm not having a go at the more sensible and moderate Christians out there, just the bedwetters like yourself and that other twonk.

Based as hell.

Quote from: ShieldWife on April 22, 2022, 10:43:02 AM
In fact, usually if "conservatives" want to censor something these days, it's because they have been influenced by the left and are censoring something that they perceive as being too far right.

Oh Sure. LOL

The conservatives are not trying to ban transgender bathrooms and force creationism into the classroom.

The far-right I speak of is basically all those evangelical crumbly gits in the republican party. They make the English Tories look almost palatable in comparison.

But I don't really care, as far as I'm concerned the 'conservative evangelical Christians' and the Wokes are made from the same vile skin. You both want to control others.

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 22, 2022, 10:57:00 AM
That's normal. The average person doesn't want to read about some fucked up furry orgy.  And people are starting to care less and less about being called whatever the fuck you want to strawman in your head. What is even the point of an author showing his barely disguised fetish in an RPG book? God forbid people actually want to play an RPG.

So why are you reading it in the first place?

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 22, 2022, 11:22:49 AM
Oh Sure. LOL

The conservatives are not trying to ban transgender bathrooms and force creationism into the classroom.

Is banning transgender bathrooms a free speech issue? It is the left who are forcing people to act like trans "women" are actual women, to include letting them into girls' locker rooms and competing in women's sports. Including censoring people for disagreeing with the trans agenda. Bathrooms are part of that, probably a more minor part, but regardless of what anybody thinks of the entire trans issue, the right isn't trying to censor anyone based on their opinions about it.

I don't think that there are many US public school classrooms teaching creationism. There are a vocal minority within what is sometimes called "the religious right" that care very much about their children not being taught evolution. Which I can sympathize with, since no parents should abide by having beliefs that they object to forced on their children. In recent decades, these parents tend to just home school their kids rather than try to change the unsalvageable public school system. Which is also something I sympathize with, especially as a homeschooling mom.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 22, 2022, 11:22:49 AMThe far-right I speak of is basically all those evangelical crumbly gits in the republican party. They make the English Tories look almost palatable in comparison.

"Far right" is essentially a meaningless term in this day and age. It could mean evangelical Christians, which is how you seem to use it, it could mean someone who actually believes in biological science like X and Y chromosomes, it could be someone who isn't racist against white people, or it could mean someone who is anti-war. Basically, "the far right" are just people who disagree with the establishment's narrative on at least one important issue.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 22, 2022, 11:22:49 AMBut I don't really care, as far as I'm concerned the 'conservative evangelical Christians' and the Wokes are made from the same vile skin. You both want to control others.

Maybe in the past (meaning before most of the people here were born) there could be some comparison between social conservatives and social leftists, but since the turning of the millennium the woke have become so much more extreme and downright nasty while the social conservatives have become so relatively innocuous that any comparison is absurd.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 22, 2022, 11:22:49 AMYou both want to control others.

Who is this "you" that you speak of?

Quote from: ShieldWife on April 22, 2022, 11:49:58 AM
Who is this "you" that you speak of?

You.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 22, 2022, 11:51:17 AM

Quote from: ShieldWife on April 22, 2022, 11:49:58 AM
Who is this "you" that you speak of?

You.

I can translate from deranged leftist.

He's saying you should shut up and let the deranged fetishists rape you in the bathroom, you mean old bigot. Women are only allowed to speak when it serves the correct agenda.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on April 22, 2022, 11:51:17 AM
You.

I wondered if that is what you meant.

I'm not even a Christian at all, much less an evangelical one.

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 22, 2022, 11:55:16 AM
I can translate from deranged leftist.

He's saying you should shut up and let the deranged fetishists rape you in the bathroom, you mean old bigot. Women are only allowed to speak when it serves the correct agenda.

Yeah apparently so.

Quote from: King Tyranno on April 22, 2022, 11:55:16 AM
He's saying you should shut up and let the deranged fetishists rape you in the bathroom, you mean old bigot.

How many trans women have been raping women in the bathroom again? Women are far more likely to be attacked in the street by men. But you pull your 'facts' out of your arse so they can suit your Christian political position.