Quote from: RPGPundit on September 29, 2024, 10:16:26 PMThe other big question will ultimately be whether OneDnD edition is already a failure?

It all hinges on just how stupid 5e players are. And judging by all the "Its backwards compatible!!!" idiots... wotc is gonna win this one by a landslide.

They just have to keep up the lie long enough for sunk fund syndrome to set in and then they are hooked and its too late to back out.

Quote from: S'mon on September 30, 2024, 04:19:58 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 29, 2024, 10:16:26 PMThe other big question will ultimately be whether OneDnD edition is already a failure?

According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZpA28d6XLg the PHB is selling very very poorly in normal outlets. Also in the runup to release WoTC has managed to alienate huge swathes of players. So yeah.

If the book fails to sell wotc will either blame it on "those mean ol haters who dont want to play a new system!" or "This is proof printed books are a thing of the past!"

Quote from: Chris24601 on September 26, 2024, 02:02:09 PMOne of the better things to come out of WotC's budget was research into the various player motivations and Immersion (what the researchers labeled The Actor) is only one of about eight primary types of player motivation.

Does anyone have a link to the results of this research?  I think I read it before but I'm having trouble finding it now.

5e brought in the woketards and 6e is built for them.

So total failure because everything woke turns to shit.

But ultimately a victory for the OSR and the growing segregation of our hobby.

Quote from: S'mon on September 30, 2024, 04:19:58 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 29, 2024, 10:16:26 PMThe other big question will ultimately be whether OneDnD edition is already a failure?

According to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZpA28d6XLg the PHB is selling very very poorly in normal outlets. Also in the runup to release WoTC has managed to alienate huge swathes of players. So yeah.

They keep telling people that it's not a new edition, and that it's backwards compatible.  Ok, so it's not needed, to play 5E? 

If you update to the new PHB, you're pretty much committing to a buy in of the entire new core 3 books, at your table.  Or, you could just keep running the 5E you already own.  Remember, it's still compatible.

Oh, and WOTC has been a crappy owner of the D&D brand, for years on end.  Got it!!!

Quote from: Spinachcat on September 30, 2024, 04:48:07 AMBut ultimately a victory for the OSR and the growing segregation of our hobby.

Seems to be. My 5e group are certainly enjoying Shadowdark, it's extremely accessible both to OSR types and 5e casuals. Only the crunch-happy min-maxers don't like it. They want 3e/PF/4e, 5e at a pinch.

Amazon UK right now says:

2024 Player's Handbook (Dungeons & Dragons Core Rulebook): Players Handbook Hard Cover (2024) Hardcover – 17 Sept. 2024

Product details
Publisher ‏ : ‎ Wizards of the Coast; 1st edition (17 Sept. 2024)
Language ‏ : ‎ English
Hardcover ‏ : ‎ 192 pages
ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 0786969512
ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-0786969517
Reading age ‏ : ‎ 13 years and up
Dimensions ‏ : ‎ 21.34 x 2.54 x 27.69 cm
Best Sellers Rank: 166 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
1 in Role-Playing & War Games
36 in Home & Garden (Books)

So they do have the Home & Garden market nailed, at least.

Customer reviews
4.1 out of 5 stars
4.1 out of 5
86 global ratings
5 star 55%
4 star 19%
3 star 11%
2 star 6%
1 star 9%

Wild enthusiasm, there.

Well the game has only been out for a decade at this point? I kind of doubt; outside of some of the founders, that any campaigns set in  prior editions such as OD&D, B/X or AD&D lasted a decade right off the heels of the games inception.

 holding 5th edition to a criteria of producing decade long campaigns in a hobby industry which at most has existed for 50 or 60 years? sorry even I find that an unreasonable metric.

The real question is. Was 5th edition good for the hobby; because asking if it was successful is pointless, it sold more than any prior edition, had more players than any prior edition, and it made more money for WOTC than any prior edition. Basically it was successful, case closed.

Was 5th edition in the long term good for the hobby? Now that is a far more worthwhile question, and I'd argue generally in the long run no, it created an entitled conformist play-culture centered around  celebrities influencers and their opinions. that or Jay-crawl and his utterly pedestrian rulings and game opinions.

I did run my 5e Wilderlands Ghinarian Hills campaign from 2015 to 2024 so nearly a decade, although no single player played for much over 7 years. One issue was that it only takes 2-3 years of typical play to reach level 20, so I got quite a few Epic Level PCs over the years, who need to eventually retire or ascend to godhood etc. They then become the revered gods and epic heroes of the next campaign cycle...

To better evaluate 2014 5E; I created a new character from scratch, in its predecessor, 2008 4E.

Comparing the two editions, via new character creation; allows me a quick nuts and bolts comparison.  5E was definitely an improvement, right out of the gate; in my opinion.  So, using that metric; I believe 2014 5E was an improvement, upon 2008 4E.  It made modern commercial D&D, better than it was.

Of course, WOTC created the lead up to the 4E to 5E era; for better or worse.  They deserve both blame, and credit.

However, 2024 5E is a different thing.

Quote from: S'mon on October 02, 2024, 04:11:31 AMI did run my 5e Wilderlands Ghinarian Hills campaign from 2015 to 2024 so nearly a decade, although no single player played for much over 7 years. One issue was that it only takes 2-3 years of typical play to reach level 20, so I got quite a few Epic Level PCs over the years, who need to eventually retire or ascend to godhood etc. They then become the revered gods and epic heroes of the next campaign cycle...

That's quite a good accomplishment. Congratulations!

Quote from: RPGPundit on October 02, 2024, 10:13:22 PM

Quote from: S'mon on October 02, 2024, 04:11:31 AMI did run my 5e Wilderlands Ghinarian Hills campaign from 2015 to 2024 so nearly a decade, although no single player played for much over 7 years. One issue was that it only takes 2-3 years of typical play to reach level 20, so I got quite a few Epic Level PCs over the years, who need to eventually retire or ascend to godhood etc. They then become the revered gods and epic heroes of the next campaign cycle...

That's quite a good accomplishment. Congratulations!

Thanks. After a few months off I've rebooted with new level 1 PCs, a new ruleset (Shadowdark) and just south of the previous main campaign area; but it's still the same setting & continuity so you might call it the same campaign. Setting continuity actually goes back to 2006 when I began running Wilderlands in AD&D/OSRIC and Labyrinth Lord, 2006-2014. Some NPCs made the jump 1e to 5e & now presumably to SD. And one player was playing 2009- ca 2022. So on one perspective it's an ongoing 18+ year campaign.