Quote from: SpikeVampire Hunters,

Bit of a low key vampire hunter by modern standards (which see Van Hellsing or Underworld or Blade).

Also a complete pansy compared to vampires.

Quote from: DrewAnd yet many, many games with low power levels have thrived over the last thirty plus years. Odd, that

Such as....

Quote from: Erik BoielleWell, this is pretty formulaic. Basically, follow the summer blockbuster formula to the letter.

One thing is the game needs Cool characters:-

Have you seen Assassins Creed?

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/2581.html

You do not play a fucking ratcatcher. You play a shamelessly cool Assassin. He is called Altair, which means Soaring Eagle or somesuch. He is specifically designed to look like a bird of prey when pirching on things or swooping on targets.

You will also note that he can free run. He probably also snowboards and drift races.

Too human?

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26080.html

Baldur. A god. Kicks ass.

Get over the whole munchkin thing. It is aspirational. You are selling people a dream here guys - no one dreams of being a prat.

Essentially, if you need to understand that people really, really like Drizzt Do-urden or whatever his name is. They want to play him. It is your JOB to sell him stuff that lets him.

Thanks for confirming your MO.

Nothing you have said there supports whatever kind of crazy arsed argument you are making. Want cool characters? Make one.

The only credence you have here is that so far there hasn't been adventure support for the high end of play. The rest is there if you bother to read it.

Quote from: One Horse TownNothing you have said there supports whatever kind of crazy arsed argument you are making. Want cool characters? Make one.

Last time I played it I got a one armed barrel chested ugly hunter. With a shit WS.

I was unenthused.

Quote from: Erik BoielleThe market gets what the market wants.

Except when it comes to warhammer roleplaying. Apparently.

You make it sound as though WFRP is a commercial failure. The game has been around for 20 years, and it's the second-best selling fantasy RPG out there.

It doesn't meet your teen power-gaming needs. Boo-fuckin-hoo. Lots of other people seem to like its gritty, gallows humour tone. There's definitely a market for the game. As to whether there's a bigger market for your utlra-violence hack game, I'll trust the folks who own the license to be the judge of that. They seem pretty good at identifying markets and making money.

Fuck me. Things must be slow today.

Ok Erik. You win. Shout rubbish until people give up. :haw:

Quote from: Erik BoielleLast time I played it I got a one armed barrel chested ugly hunter. With a shit WS.

I was unenthused.

So this is about your power-gaming needs not being met? Then play a different game. There are lots out there. Or does every game have to a teen-fantasy blood fest?

Quote from: HaffrungOr does every game have to a teen-fantasy blood fest?

Certainly not.

But really, WHY THE FUCK ISN'T WARHAMMER!!!!!!!!!

Its warhammer. Teen-fantasy blood fests is what Games Workshop sells.
 
I just don't think this is rocket science.

Quote from: Erik BoielleSuch as....

Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Traveller, Hunter: the Reckoning, Basic Fucking D&D... the list goes on.

Of course WFRP is one of the most overtly gritty fantasy games out there, and I believe owes no small amount of its success to being exactly so.

Quote from: DrewCall of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Traveller, Hunter: the Reckoning, Basic Fucking D&D...

Not exactly first tier games those. More niche games kept alive by a handful of hardcore fans. Except hunter. Which is just dead.

And DnD. But then, wasn't that the game with stats for god so you could kill them, and which is about to enter its fourth edition, now more like World of Warcraft than ever before, and with bonus hitpoints at first level because everyone agrees first level sux.

And WFRP, which has died several times, been resuscitated several times by hardcore fans and only soldiers on with the Warhammer name to prop it up and a lot of confused customers wondering why it has so little to do with the little men they like.

Quote from: Erik BoielleNot exactly first tier games those. More niche games kept alive by a handful of hardcore fans. Except hunter. Which is just dead.

For the longest time Traveller and RQ were top tier games. And if you're counting games that "died," (which for you seems to include folding for whatever reason, regardless of sales) then you might as well throw AD&D 2E on the pile. Yeah, that game with unlimited power growth fell by the wayside too. See how ridiculous your argument is when you ignore the specifics of circumstance?

QuoteAnd WFRP, which has died several times, resuscitated several times by hardcore fans and only soldiers on with the Warhammer name to prop it up and a lot of confused customers wondering why it has so little to do with the little men they like.

Where exactly are all these confused customers? Are you talking about the twelve-year-old battle gamers who can't countenance anything even remotely different from their favourite price-gouging-hobby-as-lifestyle designed to bleed their parents dry? Or somebody else? I haven't encountered anyone who was confused by the premise of WFRP after a few minutes of reading the ad copy or idly flipping through one of the books.

Except for you, of course.

Quotetwelve-year-old battle gamers who can't countenance anything even remotely different from their favourite price-gouging-hobby-as-lifestyle designed to bleed their parents dry?

Yes, that would be GWs target market, and the audience that has made them the worlds biggest hobby game company. Yknow, the people they sell their stuff to. People who like what they do. People primed to shell out cash for books filled with musclemen!

I mean, they buy the novels and whatnot.

Gah! Why is GW messing around with a piss-ant niche game! The foolishness and waste of it all genuinely makes my chest feel tight and gives me the need to sit down.

Its why I rant. I think I might pass out otherwise.

Probably because GW knows that in order to sell to 12 year olds you don't try to make them sit and read a lot of stuff, understand a lot of rules and then try to organize groups of other players. In otherwords: RPG's.  What fooken ordinary 12 year old is gonna spend 30-40 bucks for a damn book unless they are already brought into gaming by an older, and in your example, probably out of demographic for this sort of thing, gamer.


THAT is stupid marketing.

Of course, I think I can rewrite WHFRP to be more to your taste. You get one stat: badassatude. Its automatically at 5. On a d6 on a 1-5 you hit your opponent for stupid damage, killing lesser mortals and daemons with ease. On a 6, however, you decapitate yourself or somethign equally badass happens TOO you instead.

Player vs player tends to result in mutual bloodbaths. But very bloody and cool bloodbaths.

GO FORTH AND GAME AWESOME STYLE... and shut the fuck up.

Quote from: Erik BoielleYes, that would be GWs target market, and the audience that has made them the worlds biggest hobby game company. Yknow, the people they sell their stuff to. People who like what they do. People primed to shell out cash for books filled with musclemen!

And yet their profits are rapidly shrinking, their corporate policy is an utter shambles (no errata will ever be published, for fucks sake) and they're losing market share left right and centre, all the while doggedly following the same ideology you espouse.

But we've been here before, haven't we Erik? Maybe you should go back and reread the GW thread from a few months back. Virtually all this ground has already been covered. Granted, you spent most of the thread calling people "fatbeard" for disagreeing with you, but that's by the by. It's all there, and I have no desire to revisit it.

QuoteGah! Why is GW messing around with a piss-ant niche game! The foolishness and waste of it all genuinely makes my chest feel tight and gives me the need to sit down.

Its why I rant. I think I might pass out otherwise.

Quick question. Do you actually own a copy of WFRP 2E? Have you bothered to read it? So many of your complaints are in fact handled quite well by the system that I really do wonder.

Quotetheir corporate policy is an utter shambles

Well obviously, if they are pissing around with stupid shit like WFRP.

:-)

I dunno. Now is a bad time to be a toy soldier manufacturer. But I don't think it helps that Warhammer, once home to the badest dudes you could find anywhere, is now actually rather tame compared to other forms of entertainment.

They have been outgunned by their competitors.

I am familiar with WFRP2. It is so far below most of what I see on TV and video games that I wonder how anyone can say it can hold it's head up in the badass stakes.