Quote from: One Horse TownActually, having read Erik's last post, i kind of agree that it would be pretty cool to have a mega-epic adventure or series of adventures published.

If they just Tried it once. Made a game that shamelessly tries to pander to every fourteen year olds whim with assassins and deamons and chaos warriors and bare chested barbarians and space marines out the wazoo, and then it didn't sell, I could at least rest.

It just seems so obvious to me.

Why, given that you have warhammer to play with, would you not?

Look at the original WFRP; and look at the Warhammer minis game at the time WFRP1e came out; the two were very similar. The WFB had not yet gone the route of massive power-creep to the point of absurdity, and the WFRP first edition before the "enemy within" was a brutal violent, dungeon-crawl and combat heavy wilderness and city adventures companion to the WFB of that time.

What happens is they went in different directions.

WFRP did "enemy within", which suddenly meant that a bunch of Swine took over WFRP as fans and tried to demand that the game be deep and thoughtful and combat-discouraged; while the fanboys of the minis game kept wanting (and GW kept supplying) more and more powerful minis and armies till that game lost all sense of proportion.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditwhile the fanboys of the minis game kept wanting (and GW kept supplying) more and more powerful minis and armies till that game lost all sense of proportion.

The market gets what the market wants.

Except when it comes to warhammer roleplaying. Apparently.

Quote from: DrewThe closest GW came to that was the Doomstones campaign, although that was a hastily rewritten D&D campaign IIRC.

Yeah, got it, played it, loved it! *ducks*

I'm thinking even more epic than that really, but along the same lines.

As Erik hasn't answered twice now what he would change to get what he wants or how he can't achieve it with what has come out, i guess i should have seen this as his by-monthly troll on these matters that seems to get him banned from forums. Well, this or cyberpunk or *insert game here* The art is always good though.

Quote from: Erik BoielleSo the game works fine for doing everything else warhammer so long as you change the rules and make up your own adventures. And background.

If by "chane the rules" you mean "apply the experience and career advancement rules as written" then yes, however insane that may sound. As for "making up you own adventures," welcome to the wonderful world of RPG's, where creativity and vision is kind of a requirement.

And as for "background," WTF?  

QuoteChrist, its their money they are wasting.

BI's relentless publishing schedule would indicate that they're faring bloody well with the game at the moment.

Quote from: DrewBI's relentless publishing schedule would indicate that they're faring bloody well with the game at the moment.

Meh. I simply don't believe they wouldn't be selling more if they hewed a little closer to the formula.

Quote from: One Horse TownYeah, got it, played it, loved it! *ducks*

I'm thinking even more epic than that really, but along the same lines.

Something along the lines of 5000 xp+ character competence would be all kinds of cool. Set it in Kislev/The Chaos Wastes and you're set.

QuoteAs Erik hasn't answered twice now what he would change to get what he wants or how he can't achieve it with what has come out, i guess i should have seen this as his by-monthly troll on these matters that seems to get him banned from forums. Well, this or cyberpunk or *insert game here* The art is always good though.

I know, I know. I've seen my responses in this thread as more of a public service announcement than anything else. There's too many people who harp on about what WFRP can't do already, occasionally I feel obliged to counter the prejudice with a little common sense and actual experience.

Y'know, somewhere I have an adventure that comes with prepackaged three career characters.

Picking  your starting level is a feature, not a bug, Erik. The fact that I can play a 0 Xp bonepicker should in no way affect your ability to play a full bore judicial champion.

Or... are you pissed that people are playing it wrong if they DON"T start as judical champions or vampire hunters or daemon slayers?

Quote from: Erik BoielleMeh. I simply don't believe they wouldn't be selling more if they hewed a little closer to the formula.

There's absolutely no way of knowing unless they choose to do so. Oddly enough they have stuck with the formula. Barring a few systemic and setting revsions the core of WFRP has remained pretty much intact from first publication.

Quote from: One Horse TownAs Erik hasn't answered twice now what he would change to get what he wants or how he can't achieve it with what has come out,

Well, this is pretty formulaic. Basically, follow the summer blockbuster formula to the letter.

One thing is the game needs Cool characters:-

Have you seen Assassins Creed?

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/2581.html

You do not play a fucking ratcatcher. You play a shamelessly cool Assassin. He is called Altair, which means Soaring Eagle or somesuch. He is specifically designed to look like a bird of prey when pirching on things or swooping on targets.

You will also note that he can free run. He probably also snowboards and drift races.

Too human?

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/26080.html

Baldur. A god. Kicks ass.

Get over the whole munchkin thing. It is aspirational. You are selling people a dream here guys - no one dreams of being a prat.

Essentially, if you need to understand that people really, really like Drizzt Do-urden or whatever his name is. They want to play him. It is your JOB to sell him stuff that lets him.

Quote from: SpikeOr... are you pissed that people are playing it wrong if they DON"T start as judical champions or vampire hunters or daemon slayers?

More that GW make endless minis and books and computergames and whatnot about vampire hunters and deamon slayers, and yet for some reason the roleplaying game doesn't cover this area.

Instead you get inquisition flunkies who are dissed by guard sergents and expected to take it. Pansies.

I just don't think this is optimal. In fact, I think it is stupid. If there is a market for a non-warhammer low fantasy game, then make one. Then make the warhammer Barbarians and Slayers kick ass game and spend the proceeds on hookers and blow.

Quote from: Erik BoielleEssentially, if you don't understand that people really, really like Drizzt Do-urden or whatever his name is. They want to play him. It is your JOB to sell him stuff that lets him.

Only if you believe that the entirety of gaming is one big munchkin infested monoculture.

Some people want to play Drizzt. Others want to play Hamlet. Some even want to play Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. WFRP allows you to play the lot

It's like saying that D&D is too limiting because you don't automatically start at 15th level. A specious argument at best.

Quote from: DrewOnly if you believe that the entirety of gaming is one big munchkin infested monoculture.

As games workshop and palladium and White Wolf and WotC* neatly demonstrate, no one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the public.

(while the FUCKING STUPID roleplaying game has turned up its toes and died on what, three separate occassions now? Christ, do people never learn?)

IDEALLY you want to pander while still looking clever and arty and whatnot so people can feel smart while indulging themselves, but really. It is munchkin infested. Learn to love it, or doom yourself to forever being a niche.

*That is Space Marine, Glitter Boy, Vampire and Hero Explosively Growing In Power )who as of fourth ed gets bonus hit points at first level, because everyone agrees first level sux) for those of you playing the home game.

Quote from: Erik BoielleMore that GW make endless minis and books and computergames and whatnot about vampire hunters and deamon slayers, and yet for some reason the roleplaying game doesn't cover this area.

Instead you get inquisition flunkies who are dissed by guard sergents and expected to take it. Pansies.

I just don't think this is optimal. In fact, I think it is stupid. If there is a market for a non-warhammer low fantasy game, then make one. Then make the warhammer Barbarians and Slayers kick ass game and spend the proceeds on hookers and blow.

WTF are you smoking. Open your fucking book and stop being a prat. Right there! There! In the fucking book!!! Vampire Hunters, Deamon Slayers, Judicial Champions!!!

Christ, are you blind? Do I have to make a special trip back to the god damn house and feed you page numbers? Shit, man, the second ever WHFRP game I ever played in we had a fucking halfling who was doing everything in his power to become a JC on his second fucking career!  Its not the Game that forces you to be a fucking PRAT its your own willful. obdurate. behavior.

Or in that case the GM insisting that the halfling buy all the gear in this little hamlet we were based out of where no one, apparently, ever made weapons or armor. Weeks to purchase on god damn weapon at a time. GM being a prat, sure. Game? Nope, not a bit.  Of course, we still took down a necromancer and his skeleton army, a vampire in a tower and did some god damn Indiana Jones style archeology despite that!

Quote from: Erik BoielleAs games workshop and palladium and White Wolf and WotC* neatly demonstrate, no one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the public.

And yet many, many games with low power levels have thrived over the last thirty plus years. Odd, that.

Quote(while the FUCKING STUPID roleplaying game has turned up its toes and died on what, three separate occassions now? Christ, do people never learn?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fantasy_Roleplay

Scroll down to the history section. You'll find that poor support, overly restrictive licensing deals and bizarro GW corporate policy is largely to blame. WFRP has turned a profit in every incarnation, the latest one in particular.