Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHonestly, I'm having trouble seeing this guy.  The art is so busy, poorly composed, and lacking substantive depth that I'd have about as easy a time seeing this guy in a Pollack or Steadman painting.

You don't have to like it - you just have to know that it is what games workshop sells.

I love it. The big muscles, the stupid poses waving inflatable warhammers in the air - it is the coolest thing in the world. If I didn't love it I wouldn't like GW as much, because, yknow, it is what they do.

(I am reminded of a comment on the Black Libraries board about how no one ever seemed to complain about the writing quality of black library novels, so they must be pretty good. Er, no...)

It is like Loaded or Maxim - it ain't big and it ain't clever, but it is wonderful to read while taking a dump.

Quote from: Herr ArnulfeIf you can find a way to make a successful roleplaying game with mass battles as its main focus, then you should pitch the idea to GW.

Not actually very difficult, I say. Er, take a look at a book like Antony Beevors Stalingrad or Berlin. They are more or less told as high level narratives. So, er, to take an example, Montgomery knows there are panzer divisions in the way of the allied invasion, so he keeps launching attacks at Caen to draw in more enemy tanks and eventually allow his american allies to break through elsewhere (or he gets his ass handed to him and makes the plan up later, depending), all the while having to convince people that he knows what he is doing so he doesn't get replaced.

Or have you played Republic of Rome?

Anyway, the only real difference is that you say 'I dispatch scouts to reconoiter the village' instead of I listen at the door' or, 'I charge with my heavy cavalry' instead of 'I hit him'.

If you have read The Sabbat Worlds Crusade, a room in a dungeon becomes a new planet invaded by the crusade. You listen at the door (deploy sensor sats), kick in the door (perform an assault landing with drop pods) and slay the orks (order your armies to slay the orks RTS style).

Dave Nilsens Lone Wolf is a decent example:-

http://www.geocities.com/pentapod2300/mag/lonewolf.htm

Possibly too weird for GW, but doable.

QuotePowerful heroes in Warhammer don't travel in dungeoncrawling adventure parties with other epic-level heroes.

Actually, I don't think there is any reason to think they don't.

QuoteGW isn't keen to lose money on longshots, as far as I can tell.

Yeah, but that means making World of Warhammer, not WFRP. WFRP was an odd concept.

Quote from: Erik BoielleYou don't have to like it - you just have to know that it is what games workshop sells.

I was always kind of embarrassed by the ineptitude of this kind of art, even when I was hardcore into WH40K.  Admittedly it packed lots of emotion and enthusiasm into the gaps where technique was missing, all of which appealed to GW's targetted demographic -- boys in their late teens to early 20s.  I grew up and got off that bus, and I suspect that the design and development crew at GW were onto a similar notion.  The wargame was selling to a younger crowd, and a roleplaying game would sell to an older crowd.  Enough similar elements would appeal to both demographics.

In short, they decided to market the RPG, a line that couldn't rely on lightning fast sales of expensive minis and almost equally fast turn-over of consumers, to a steadier consumer base.

!i!

QuoteI was always kind of embarrassed by the ineptitude of this kind of art, even when I was hardcore into WH40K.

Still hooked you like a fish, bitch...

:-)

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThe wargame was selling to a younger crowd, and a roleplaying game would sell to an older crowd.  

And... that's a wrap.

Goodnight folks, and drive safe.

Quote from: Erik BoielleStill hooked you like a fish bitch...

:-)

...which would make you a "fish bitch" as well...

QuoteAnd... that's a wrap.

And yet the big roleplaying games are DnD, Vampire, Exalted, Rifts...

The idea that roleplayers don't like what GW sells is simply not evident in their buying habits.

Quote from: Koltar...which would make you a fish bitch as well...

Well, er, yes.

So, I think tactics that worked on me, him and everyone else would seem a good strategy neh?

I dunno. It is just that you can claim till you are blue in the face that no one really likes what Games Workshop does, but if this is true, how the hell did they get so big?

Quote from: Erik BoielleAnd yet the big roleplaying games are DnD, Vampire, Exalted, Rifts...

WRONG!!!!
 ...on at least TWO of those.
(DO you even look at the Market Beat sticky that I and Warthur update each month???)

Dungeons & Dragons is VERY BIG - its the top seller.
They also have better artwork and thats in believable scale and porportion to their fictional characters.

Vampire? If you mean World of Darkness, then yes that does sell pretty well...but not as much as it used to.

Exalted? NOT a "Top Seller" - its up and down the chart. Not ever really a big selling item. Hasn't been for quite awhile. (It also has better artwork than Warhammer)

Rifts??
You gotta be kidding.
Last year it only got to the # 2 spot because of that online pleading from Kevin S. - biggest traceable artificial bump up the charts that I've seen in 4 years.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Erik BoielleHell, I'm British!

I would like to take this opportunity to apologise on behalf oof my fellow countryman, and to assure you all that efforts are underway to have Erik deported. Anyone who can claim to be British and still not get the glorious and very British humour of WFRP isn't really one of us.

Never read 2000ad huh?

I'm curious. If Erik's arguments are starting to make sense to me is that a testament to his arguments and clear-headed points, his stubborness, a slow festering insanity, or the fact I'm really, really tired? Someone please answer.

Quote from: Erik BoielleNever read 2000ad huh?

Yes I have. What's your point?

Quote from: TrevelyanYes I have. What's your point?

We don't only make the Full Monty or romantic comedies with Hugh Grant.

Nothing more british than a Commando comic:-



Balls of British Steel mate.





Smug superiority and rampant xenophobia - BRITISH!

Quote from: SaskwachI'm curious. If Erik's arguments are starting to make sense to me is that a testament to his arguments and clear-headed points, his stubborness, a slow festering insanity, or the fact I'm really, really tired? Someone please answer.

Erik's arguments make no sense.

His basic objection is that WFRP let's you play gritty, mud-and-blood games, while the average Warhammer fan wants epic action with big swords and silly armour.

What he fails to understand, in spite of the fact that several posters have spelled it out using simple words that even Erik should be able to understand, is that WFRP accomodates both styles of play with the simple proviso that a player wanting immediate gonzo action needs to create an experienced character.

Erik has yet to offer a counter argument beyond simply saying that he doesn't like to create experienced characters and/or doesn't believe that anyone else does either.