Ok, after a month of reading 2nd second edition (and skimming 1st edition, mostly because it has way more background information in the main book), I'm feeling froggy and ready to try it out on my Saturday guys. Having never played or GM'd it, of course, I'll be feeling my way around a lot of the little details and such, but I can say it looks like a ton of fun, and not at all like D&D (mostly due to wonky magic and super-deadly combat).
So, just looking for advice or suggestions from folks who have played it before - I know we seem to have quite a few with experience in the system and setting. What are some things that might be handled differently with experience that a first-timer might miss? Any "must do" or "must have" elements of an adventure (I'm loving the Lovecraftian vibe of the setting, so I've got a handle on that already)? Having read a couple of short adventures, it seems much more suited to "skulk and dagger" rather than the "kick the door down, kill the moster, loot, repeat" style, which I'm frankly bored with.
So, whatchagot?
My advice would be to always use sudden death criticals for most enemies. It's just not worth the effort.
Insanity points - fun for everyone. Be quick handing those out.
Other than that, make sure to play up the various Chaos gods rather than just an all out "Chaos Undivided Deluge" of various monsters. All kinds of good stuff on Greater Daemons and what they do to the world around them in Tome of Corruption.
Being a rookie WFRP gm myself and starting the Enemy Witin-campaign next Thursday, I'll tag onto this thread. Bring on the good advice!
Yeah, make sure you post about how that's working out and I'll do the same. Always nice to know what other people are doing with the same rules. :)
I'm thinking I'll use one of the pre-gen short adventures first, to get everyone into the true feel of the setting and rules, before branching out into my own thing. Also, that way, if it flops, I haven't spent 40 hours preparing stuff that'll never be used. ;)
Heh, I was thinking the same thing. So today I picked up the Death's Dark Shadow adventure-pack from the local library. I will probably use some of those smaller adventures to cut my teeth rule-wise with something that won't fuck up the entire campaign.
Make the most of the Career system, make sure every character is buying into the idea of playing their career and coming up with how they progress to the next career in game. Its the thing that is most unique to wfrp, and when used well it can really elevate the game.
Remember: the players think they're playing D&D. You know they're playing Call of Cthulhu. Have fun!
All kidding aside, try to avoid dungeon crawls: what your average D&D party eats for breakfast will kill a similarly arrayed bunch of adventurers ten times over (e.g., a room of 30 goblins, etc.)
It's a good game for small groups, I've found.
That's all I have. Anyone else?
Someone's story of how a WFRP game runs (I gather it was 1st ed).
This probably tells you everything you need to know about how to run a WFRP campaign ;)
James Wallis Sunk My Barge (http://www.criticalmiss.com/issue8/jameswallisruined3.html)
Fuckin' hell, I can only pray my adventures are half as cool. :)
I'm a doctor-cum-merchant with a shotgun in Herr Arnulfe's WFRP game. It's a blast.
Nobody that I've ever gamed with has ever given out insanity points for being critted, and Pundit IIRC once mentioned it as a rule he'd never seen anyone use, either. Stick with a winning trend.
Multiple attacks are usually more deadly than single big attacks because of how active defenses work. This means more shitty opponents can be more difficult than a smaller number of tougher opponents to overcome.
Rolls outside of combat or high-stress should usually have at least a +10 to them. In combat, PCs should be ganging up, flanking, charging all-out-attacking, etc. to get the maximum bonuses possible. Played smartly, there isn't really a whiff factor in WFRP.
Blunderbusses can be used by people without the Specialist Weapon Training (Gunpowder) talent because they don't require rolls to hit.
I recommend using degrees of success and failure as interpretive tools for almost every roll. Zero degrees of failure is a narrowly unsuccessful attempt. Three degrees is a serious failure. Six is catastrophic. For knowledge rolls, zero degrees of failure is incomplete, three degrees is unhelpful, and six is outright falsehoods.
Magic isn't nearly as deadly as people sometimes pretend. Neither is combat, unless your PCs are dummies.
As a guideline for treasure, a PC exiting their first career will usually need to have spent between 50 and 100 GC to acquire the trappings of their next career (especially if they require Trade Tools of any sort). They'll probably be hauling around about 250 GC worth of gear (a decent suit of armour, a good set of weapons, some miscellaneous adventuring gear, and some raw cash).
Everybody has their own set of healing rules.
The Empire is a world of men. The inhuman is feared. Magic isn't trusted unless its from a priest, preferably one of Sigmar. The Old Ways and Old Things lurk in the background and the Empire sometimes mistakes them for Chaos. Paranoia, fear and wanton violence are the order of the day.
I like to delve into everyday life around the Empire and let the players drink in the squalor and splendor of the cities versus the beauty and danger of the wilds.
Remember there are plenty of threats beyond Chaos. Men, very bad men, have all sorts of plans they seek to put into action. Don't forget the Empire isn't one big happy family either, nor are they on great terms with their neighbors.
D&D is a wonderful monster mash. Warhammer is best when its more like a horror movie than a fantasy film. The Monstrous is a centerpiece of terror and not just an action scene.
Oh, and Elves aren't really your friends, Dwarves are too consumed by their own feuds to notice the Apocalypse, and the Skaven just might have an underground honeycomb of tunnels under the entire world.
And those Vampire Counts? Scary fuckers, but can the Empire stand without them?
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;407523Nobody that I've ever gamed with has ever given out insanity points for being critted, and Pundit IIRC once mentioned it as a rule he'd never seen anyone use, either. Stick with a winning trend.
I do! When that troll bites off your hand, it haunts you.
Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;407523Rolls outside of combat or high-stress should usually have at least a +10 to them. In combat, PCs should be ganging up, flanking, charging all-out-attacking, etc. to get the maximum bonuses possible. Played smartly, there isn't really a whiff factor in WFRP.
Very Important Point.
Being a WFRP 1st veteran (I liked 2nd but it didn't have the same flavour as the 1st - and I was stuck in my ways considering I'd been playing it since 1989), I'd advise:
- Whilst you're getting used to the rules, I find it helps not to allow any magic users (I do this with any game). The magic system in 1st is bulky and pretty naff, to be honest, and the 2nd edition cleans it up but I wasn't impressed by it. That's just to make your opening games a bit easier, so that's up to you.
- Don't get hung up on the career progression rules, such as having to complete all advances and gather all skills. I just asked the players to get all the advances and then they could move on. Sure, they might be in a certain career but it doesn't mean they were any good at it.
- Always let the players roll on the critical chart when they inflict damage on the NPCs/monsters that take them below 0 wounds. There's nothing more satisfying than their reactions when they roll a decent critical. If you can get hold of the old Hogshead GM screen they had an extended Critical Hit chart in there, for different types of weapons etc. Also, there was a great fumble table.
- Although the setting is 'a grim world of perilous adventure' remember that there are places that aren't always at war and under threat. Letting players visit and adventure in these places makes experiencing the darkness even more effective as being continually morose and grim and reminding the players how dark and futile it all is can ruin a game as the players either get bored of all the dark or just say, 'so what's the point?'
- Insanity points are fun and I used to hand them out if the PC was critted and failed a Willpower + Tx5 check. Thing is, if the players all start having mental health episodes during a game it seriously slows things down so don't be too generous.
Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you have to bleed to death in a stinking alley in order to play WFRP properly.
Personally, i think that v2 Insanity is less playable than v1, so if you've got that version take a look and compare and see which version suits you best.
Download as much fan material as you can - there's some very good stuff out there. There's also something like 60 free fan-made adventures from various BI competitions. A lot of them are very good.
Minor threadjack. What are the main differences between 1e and 2e, system-wise, if any?
Quote from: One Horse Town;407534Download as much fan material as you can - there's some very good stuff out there. There's also something like 60 free fan-made adventures from various BI competitions. A lot of them are very good.
//www.strike-to-stun.net is a pretty good fan site for that kind of stuff.
I used insanity points, too. Played as written, the chances of going insane are fairly low (you need what, 6 points, if I recall correctly). The main source of insanity in the campaign is critical hits, and such hits have a 20% or greater chance of killing you. There are a few other ways (first sight of a demon, and the like), but they're rare enough that it's not a factor unless the GM really works to hose the players.
My big advice is to read the modules at least twice through, if not more, before running them. In a D&D module, it's a pretty big deal (and very rare) if even 3 rooms are somehow interconnected, but WFRP adventures link up in all sorts of ways, and the GM has to have a good overall feel for the whole structure to run the adventure properly.
Personally I would play with a more detailed critical hit table. The one in the book is too basic for my tastes.
Make generous use of the Difficulty Modifiers.
Don't be fooled by claims that it's hard to make a decent combat character right out of the gate or that combat is overly deadly. In my experience combat between two equally skilled and equally geared opponents often comes down clever use of the combat maneuvers. If your players use too many swift attacks once they get 2+ attacks then throw some defense heavy opponents at them.
Spellcasters are as vulnerable to an arrow/bullet/bolt as just about anybody. While they can certainly pull off incredible stunts they are often over specialized, and thus have huge holes in their defenses.
Use magic items sparingly. Some items or properties can do nasty things like ignore non-magical armor or add to damage done after armor is applied. In my experience it's fights with magic items that become death traps.
Tailor the career system to your group's taste. Some will claim you need to use the system completely as written, and while this can be fun it doesn't lend itself to every type of campaign.
Consider using weapon traits to differentiate between basic weapons. Go with what makes sense or how the weapon is designed. Axes with Impact, Blunt weapons with Stunning, etc. I believe there might be rules for this in the Old World Armory.
Take advantage of the flexible system that sits nicely in the background. I find WFRP works best when you let description and roleplaying take precedence over die rolls. While this is possible with any system I think Warhammer lends itself very well to this style of play.
There are, or at least were, some very excellent "more detailed" Crit tables out there for WFRP 2e, and I strongly recommend you get those. There were some in particular that I thought quite good that were made by a guy who was an actual doctor irl, so they had a great deal of very good and realistic anatomical detail.
Aside from that, definitely do not buy into the idea that WFRP can't be a game about combat. Have your PCs fight regularly, but make sure its thematically appropriate and interesting.
WFRP is like Fantasy Shadowrun, sort of. There's lots of plot to it, but in the end its about being a kind of scuzzy guy on the fringes of society who Kicks Motherfucking Ass (or dies trying).
RPGpundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;407721There are, or at least were, some very excellent "more detailed" Crit tables out there for WFRP 2e, and I strongly recommend you get those. There were some in particular that I thought quite good that were made by a guy who was an actual doctor irl, so they had a great deal of very good and realistic anatomical detail.
HA has them, and we've used them, or if not the same ones, another set of crit tables also done by a doctor. They go to +15 or something similar. It's harder to kill someone using them, though easier to cripple them. We gave them up out of frustration at how long combat was going while using them, IIRC.
Quote from: RPGPundit;407721There are, or at least were, some very excellent "more detailed" Crit tables out there for WFRP 2e, and I strongly recommend you get those. There were some in particular that I thought quite good that were made by a guy who was an actual doctor irl, so they had a great deal of very good and realistic anatomical detail.
Do you have any links?
The website Winds of Chaos has two detailed crit tables. The one written by the trauma surgeon also has a 76 page document about healing, surgery, infection, and magical healing that goes along with it. Some crits can only be healed by certain magic. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get the website to load recently.
They also have updated TEW stats for WFRP v2
Also, Pundit's advice about Fantasy Shadowrun is dead on.
Edit: Got the link to work.
http://www.windsofchaos.com/?page_id=19
The second version is the most detailed one I've seen, and includes the healing document.
I thought Earthdawn was fantasy Shadowrun...
@Simlasa: Love the Avatar from a great, great movie.
Disclaimer: it's almost 6am and I can't sleep. Please forgive any grammar mistakes or crap like that. Heh.
I've been running WFRP since 1991. I absolutely fell in love with the gritty Renaissance feel of the setting, tainted by the underlying threat of Lovecraftian horror. I tend to mix both settings, since 1e and 2e are radically different in some areas (I prefer 1e Bretonnia).
I do agree that it is VERY possible to make a kick-ass combat character out of the gates, and it is VERY possible to have a combat-heavy campaign that doesn't involve a whole lot of character deaths. I once ran a Dwarf campaign that took place in a Dwarf hold in the decades before and leading up to the Greenskins finally overrunning the place. It was epic and involved a whole lot of combat (as well as tons of exploration and role-playing). Even in their first careers they had some brutal crawls through Skaven-infested warrens and Ghoul-haunted catacombs. Yes it can be bloody. Yes it can be lethal. But yes it isn't as lethal as some people make it out to be.
And some good advice was given before: remember that there are WAY more threats than Chaos. I'd even recommend using Chaos sparingly. It keeps the creepy mystique about them. The Undead, the Greenskins, the Skaven, the Dark Elves, and the Norse all present some very serious threats to the Empire. Oftentimes, though, the biggest threat to the Empire is the Empire itself. The Great Provinces war amongst themselves when an outside threat isn't present, and generational feuds along the borders can sometimes leads to skirmishes... or even invasions (read the history of the Empire; it happens). Or it wars amongst the religions. The bad blood between Sigmar and Ulric's cult is a powder keg in some areas, waiting for one little thing to trigger it. When it isn't the Grand Provinces or the religions, it's the races. While Dwarves are given great status in the Empire and Halflings have their own Elector-Count, Elves are greatly persecuted. And ignorance is RIFE in the Empire, so a lot of places have never seen a Halfling or Dwarf and might mistake them for a mutant!
Play up the ignorance. It's everywhere.
If you feel that the Empire is too overwhelming for you right now, being new to the setting, why not run your game in the Border Princes. Heck the book Renegade Crowns helps you make your Border princedom, and I happen to like that book. The whole region is the GMs personal touch on an already established world, since he gets to create whatever he wants there. It's a microcosm of the rest of the world of Warhammer.
And read the novels. I had players that didn't "get" the setting at first. So I had them read some of the books. And then they were like new players. Some books are crap. Some books are decent. Quite a few are really good.
A trilogy worth reading, since it takes you from the ignorant life of a peasant to a traveler in the Empire, dealing with everything and everyone, are the Death's Messenger * Death's City * Death's Legacy books. They're by Sandy Mitchel. C.L. Werner's Witch Hunter books finally have an omnibus out, so all three books are in one. They're really good (I love Witch Hunters). Guardian's of the Forest is absolutely essential for any Elf player or GM looking to see how Elves are (the three races of non-Dark Elf - Sea, Wood, and High - are one race; Wood Elves are just those who defied the King's edict and stayed behind). Riders of the Dead is an awesome look at Kislev and the Chaos Marauders. And the Black Hearts series by Nathan long are just plain, ol' fun.
I hated the Dark Elf and Trollslayer books. YMMV.
Also - run the rules AS IS until a few sessions go by. Then decide what you like and what needs changing. What works for some might not for you and vice versa.
Oooh and another thing: really have the PCs roleplay the transition between Careers. But as the GM it is also your responsibility to present the player with opportunities to do just that. If a PC wants to pay the 200 XP to go from Peasant to Roadwarden, have the Roadwardens post a sign that they're recruiting due to a shortage of men after the recent Chaos invasion.
A side note: I really fucking hated that Chaos invaded. I removed that garbage. I felt it cheapened the subtle madness of Chaos. Instead of made it a Norse invasion from the north but with RUMORS that Daemons aided them (or Skaven, or Undead, or Greenskins, or the Emperor, or Bretonians, or Elfs, or whatever the rumormonger hates the most, hah!).
Most of all, have fun. It's a great game for a great setting.
-=Grim=-
I am Blackhand, and I approve this thread. You may all now eat your puddings.
Everyone gives good advice here, and the setting seems to have reached out to all of you.
I'd go so far as to say the extra crit tables are just that - extra. I tend to not burden myself with extra material and stick to the published game, but your mileage may vary, I've found that the players don't really care if the crit tables weren't drawn up by a doctor. I also have been playing WFRP since 1991, oh what a great year that one.
The advice about using Chaos sparingly is true, unless your main antagonist is chaos! I should talk however ... my last campaign featured greenskins as the primary antagonist, but a vampire was a 'flavor villain' added to season the mix and a chaos daemon was the mastermind. It's all about variance in flavor.
Yeah, I think making Chaos be cause behind all the bad stuff gets old... so use it as a sparse flavoring. If it were as omnipresent as some people make it out to be it would have overwhelmed the world long ago.
Even in Call of Cthulhu I'd often have non-mythos goings on... the cults are few and secret... the PCs are paranoid... not all things that look mythos related turn out to be... plenty of people are just plain evil without any weird cosmic influences.
That said, I always thought it would be fun to play/run a campaign in WFRP where the PCs start as bottom run members in a chaos cult... aspiring to climb the ladder to success.
At the end of the Storm of Chaos, the influence of the Ruinous Powers IS omnipresent. That's 2522 I.C. + (i.e. WFRP 2e)
During The Enemy Within campaign (which takes place much earlier than the present moment) chaos within the Empire is still in hiding. It's been many years since the last great Chaos Incursion (give or take 500 or so years) and it has faded from memory. This background is given in WFRP1.
So...I guess it depends on when you're running the game, but generally - yes, chaos is behind everything, including all the Chaos armies, daemons, dark elves, skaven and most other things. Except necromancers and ogres, but there are chaos ogres and dragon ogres (which are creatures of chaos) and most the other monsters and chaos beasts, such as cockatrices and minotaurs. All of them are chaos beasts.
Also, anything to do with magic, Chaos is behind. All magic IS chaos. So...when Chaos gets old, play another game.
Quote from: Simlasa;407952That said, I always thought it would be fun to play/run a campaign in WFRP where the PCs start as bottom run members in a chaos cult... aspiring to climb the ladder to success.
I've done just that.
I ran it as a side-campaign to my main one, running it whenever enough players couldn't make it to bother running the main campaign, but there were still enough to warrant game night going on. It was awesome! Some of the most memorable WFRP scenes my players talked about were actually from that campaign. The PCs started out at mutants though. They were normal commoners with crap stats, at first, and a band of "brave adventurers" happened to be battling a group of footpads in the street outside of their homes (the band of NPC adventurers were going through the Odenhaller Contract from the 1e corebook, I decided). Well, the NPC adventurer-wizard fumbled his spell and got a Tzeentch's Curse effect that warped everything with Chaos within 50'. This happened to be the PCs, who were huddling in their hovels and hoping the fight didn't trash their property. The PCs suddenly went from lower-class commoners to mutants on the run. They were minor mutations, at first, but they knew they still had to run, hide and hope to eke out an existence somehow.
They started out at pawns in a power play between Tzeentch and Slaanesh cults, both of whom needed peons in their machinations and thus both wanted the PCs. It was a truly awesome, fun, creepy, and completely different WFRP game. I'd do it again in a second.
Quote from: Blackhand;407962At the end of the Storm of Chaos, the influence of the Ruinous Powers IS omnipresent. That's 2522 I.C. + (i.e. WFRP 2e)
Which is why I made the invasion Norse with Kurgan allies instead of open Chaos. Chaos is the "enemy within", the rotten core at the heart of the Empire. Making it so overt was silly on the part of Black Library. And they only did it because the tabletop game did it first. And the miniatures game always does insane, hyper-unrealistic crap just to warrant every single army they put out having a reason to fight. To let such a thing influence the role-playing game was bad. The RPG had it's own history and flavor. It should have continues off of the Enemy Within and Doomstones, not... ugh... Archaon's invasion (i.e. the WFRP Battle Royale).
And I wouldn't say that Chaos' power is now Omnipresent. It's is OVERT, yes, but not omnipresent. There are places in the Empire that have only heard RUMOR of the war and what invaded (with conflicting stories), knowing only their the local lord went north with a lot of his men-at-arms. In many places Greenskins and Undead are more present than Chaos. And in places outside of the Empire it is even less affected by the war.
Just sayin'. :)
-=Grim=-
P.S.: yea I can B.S. about this game/fluff all day and night. I dig it that much.
Quote from: GrimJesta;408056I've done just that.
I ran it as a side-campaign to my main one, running it whenever enough players couldn't make it to bother running the main campaign, but there were still enough to warrant game night going on. It was awesome! Some of the most memorable WFRP scenes my players talked about were actually from that campaign. The PCs started out at mutants though. They were normal commoners with crap stats, at first, and a band of "brave adventurers" happened to be battling a group of footpads in the street outside of their homes (the band of NPC adventurers were going through the Odenhaller Contract from the 1e corebook, I decided). Well, the NPC adventurer-wizard fumbled his spell and got a Tzeentch's Curse effect that warped everything with Chaos within 50'. This happened to be the PCs, who were huddling in their hovels and hoping the fight didn't trash their property. The PCs suddenly went from lower-class commoners to mutants on the run. They were minor mutations, at first, but they knew they still had to run, hide and hope to eke out an existence somehow.
They started out at pawns in a power play between Tzeentch and Slaanesh cults, both of whom needed peons in their machinations and thus both wanted the PCs. It was a truly awesome, fun, creepy, and completely different WFRP game. I'd do it again in a second.
Which is why I made the invasion Norse with Kurgan allies instead of open Chaos. Chaos is the "enemy within", the rotten core at the heart of the Empire. Making it so overt was silly on the part of Black Library. And they only did it because the tabletop game did it first. And the miniatures game always does insane, hyper-unrealistic crap just to warrant every single army they put out having a reason to fight. To let such a thing influence the role-playing game was bad. The RPG had it's own history and flavor. It should have continues off of the Enemy Within and Doomstones, not... ugh... Archaon's invasion (i.e. the WFRP Battle Royale).
And I wouldn't say that Chaos' power is now Omnipresent. It's is OVERT, yes, but not omnipresent. There are places in the Empire that have only heard RUMOR of the war and what invaded (with conflicting stories), knowing only their the local lord went north with a lot of his men-at-arms. In many places Greenskins and Undead are more present than Chaos. And in places outside of the Empire it is even less affected by the war.
Just sayin'. :)
-=Grim=-
P.S.: yea I can B.S. about this game/fluff all day and night. I dig it that much.
The Storm of Chaos nearly destroyed the Empire. With Grimgor's horde and the other Chaos lords attacking from the east over the World's Edge, it pretty much smashed all the lands of the Empire in some form or fashion. Even if it wasn't Chaos that did the smashing, smashing was done and it's pretty well blamed on Archaon.
I liked Archaon as a villain. I didn't really care for the Sigmar reborn stuff, i.e. Norse Jesus with a Hammer.
Quote from: Spinachcat;407762Do you have any links?
I'm afraid I don't. I used to, back when I was running WFRP 2e a few years ago, but I've lost them since then. They're pretty well known, though, so hopefully some hardcore fan on here will post them.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Simlasa;407798I thought Earthdawn was fantasy Shadowrun...
Only in-setting.
WFRP 2e is like the spirit of Shadowrun in a Fantasy version.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Simlasa;407952That said, I always thought it would be fun to play/run a campaign in WFRP where the PCs start as bottom run members in a chaos cult... aspiring to climb the ladder to success.
Tome of Corruption would be a big help there.
RPGpundit
Quote from: Blackhand;407962At the end of the Storm of Chaos, the influence of the Ruinous Powers IS omnipresent. That's 2522 I.C. + (i.e. WFRP 2e)
Yeah, I just ignore that crap... Even GW has backpedaled on it.
In the war-game it always felt against the fluff to have any chaos 'armies' except for Khorne... Maybe small band of Nurgle cultists... But Slaanesh cultists would be too busy with drunken orgies... Tzeench not interested in static military organization or violence just for the sake of violence.
Even a huge Skaven army, out in the open... In the sunshine... Seems ridiculous.
Expunging the nonsense from the war-game seems like a good idea.
From what I've read so far, I agree: Warhammer seems far more the "lurking horror" style RPG as opposed to "hulk smash" rpg. Not that you couldn't do either, of course. For some reason I envision huge stretches of the Empire as being exactly like Darkshire in Warcraft. :)
Quote from: Werekoala;408109For some reason I envision huge stretches of the Empire as being exactly like Darkshire in Warcraft. :)
I was thinking the same thing just this morning as I was reading one of the Matthias Thulmann stories... Darkshire was one of my favorite areas in WOW. It was pretty scary the first time I wandered across the river from Kansasland (place with farms, pumpkins and mechanical scarecrows?) and into that huge cemetery and its catacombs.
Quote from: Simlasa;408105Yeah, I just ignore that crap... Even GW has backpedaled on it.
**Something Else**
Expunging the nonsense from the war-game seems like a good idea.
How has GW backpedaled on it? I have the new edition of Warhammer right here in front of me and almost all the background section is how the Storm of Chaos changed the Empire and the new era of total destruction has dawned.
It's the end of the freaking world man. For real. It's done, they are coming for us RIGHT NOW.
Canon is for wusses.
Quote from: RPGPundit;408074Tome of Corruption would be a big help there.
RPGpundit
Is 'Tome' a good sourcebook? Is it overly locked into the 'Storm of Chaos' nonsense? I've got the original 'Realm of Chaos' books... which at this point are probably cheaper to track down than 'Tome of Corruption'.
Quote from: One Horse Town;408115Canon is for wusses.
YES! YES! A thousand times YES!
Quote from: One Horse Town;408115Canon is for wusses.
Totally. There's no such thing as "canon" as far as my RPG games are concerned.
Reading through the mechanics again this evening, it occurs to me how easily you could use these rules for a straight-up Conan game. Very much a "spiritual successor" to Howard as well as Lovecraft, seems to me.
Also, am I a bad person since I sooo want to have an NPC witch-finder (general?) who is a direct ripoff of Colonel Landa from Inglorious Bastards?
Quote from: Werekoala;408136Also, am I a bad person since I sooo want to have an NPC witch-finder (general?) who is a direct ripoff of Colonel Landa from Inglorious Bastards?
Sounds awesomely nasty to me... poor little mutant girl hiding under the floorboards... Witch Finder Landa (as played by Vincent Price) ordering that pots of boiling water be poured between the cracks.
While I'm not a fan of the 'chaos behind every rock' brand of WFRP the paranoia and zealotry regarding witches and mutants... the evils of the mob and the witch hunters... is a big part of what I find interesting about the setting. Even if chaos is an impending threat people will be tearing each other apart out of fear long before the armies of Khorne come marching down the street...
Kinda reminds me of that Twilight Zone episode "The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street" UTube Link. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJyaBxYjWcQ)
Quote from: Simlasa;408116Is 'Tome' a good sourcebook? Is it overly locked into the 'Storm of Chaos' nonsense?
Oh man, yes.
Back in Ye Olden Tymes I had the two old Chaos books, and honestly, I like the Tome of Corruption better. It's like they finally figured out what they want Chaos to be and how Chaos functions, so to speak. And there's a LOT of information in that book (rivaled only by Tome of Salvation, another fantastic book), more than just Chaos. They touch on all of Norsca, for starters, going into the various tribes and how they worship Chaos on a different level than most think (also: new Careers for Norse). You could run a straight up Norse campaign. Wouldn't that be a trip? Plundering, raiding, and causing mayhem, sailing the Sea of Claws on your longship, and playing to the elemental forces of "Chaos" (elemental as in part of the physical realm, not D&D elemental). There's also information of the Chaos Wastes and some of the strange crap you'll find there.
Then they go into the creatures of Chaos. Picture it as an exceptionally detailed expansion of the Old World Bestiary in this part, going so far as to present Beastmen and Marauders as playable. Lots of new monsters too. The chapter on Demons is pretty sweet!
And then there's the tons of magic - new spells. New magic items. New rituals. New Marks of Chaos and Chaos Manifestations. And the mutation tables rival the old ones, only without some of the sillier stuff (wacky is still there though). The book also has a chapter on Witch Hunters and Templar orders that hunt Chaos. Separate from the art and objects of Chaos are the cursed (but usually also beneficial to the wielder, to tempt them to use it) weapons and armor. I love that chapter.
And that's not everything. Yea. Tome of Corruption is worth it. So it Tome of Salvation. I'd go so far as to say that the game isn't complete without the three "Tome" books.
Shit, I sound like I was pitching a sale. Heh.
-=Grim=-
Lots of information of Chaos cults and ow they operate within the Empire and elsewhere. Also, specific named cults, which is nice.
Quote from: Simlasa;408116Is 'Tome' a good sourcebook? Is it overly locked into the 'Storm of Chaos' nonsense? I've got the original 'Realm of Chaos' books... which at this point are probably cheaper to track down than 'Tome of Corruption'.
Tome of Corruption is an INCREDIBLE sourcebook. And no, it has fuck all to do with the storm of chaos. Its all about very detailed stuff on all of the Chaos gods, how they can fuck you up, what their respective servitors are like, chaos items, mutations, a guide to Norsca, and the chaos wastes in the north. Its fantastic. Easily to me the best WFRP sourcebook ever done, and please note that I'm not an "i like evil" stuff. I was quite concerned that it was going to be for powergamers who wanted to play "evil" badass PCs, but it turned out to be nothing of the sort.
RPGpundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;408347Tome of Corruption is an INCREDIBLE sourcebook.
$141 on Amazon, it BETTER be good. :)
$141!?! Whaaaaaat? I almost want to put mine in plastic. Heh. I don't think any RPG book is worth that much. Seriously. Not a single one. It's just an RPG book.
-=Grim=-
My Wilderlands of High Fantasy box set is worth something like $200-210.
On to WFRP
The Tome books and Realms of Sorcery are must haves. Full stop.
The "monster manual" is excellent and a real fun read.
Career Compendium is invaluable as it collects every career in v2, and has expanded character gen tables.
Night's Dark Masters and Children of the Horned Rat as good if you plan on using vampires or Skaven in your games. CotHR include rules for playing Skaven.
Old World Armory (if you ignore costs) and the setting books (Empire, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, etc) are non-essential, but nice to have.
The adventures are so-so, but try to grab any book (v1 or v2) that has Night at the Three Feathers.
Quote from: MonkeyWrench;408365The Tome books and Realms of Sorcery are must haves. Full stop.
The "monster manual" is excellent and a real fun read.
Career Compendium is invaluable as it collects every career in v2, and has expanded character gen tables.
Night's Dark Masters and Children of the Horned Rat as good if you plan on using vampires or Skaven in your games. CotHR include rules for playing Skaven.
Old World Armory (if you ignore costs) and the setting books (Empire, Bretonnia, Dwarfs, etc) are non-essential, but nice to have.
*sigh* I wish I bought the Career Compendium when I had the chance. Now it's stupid expensive!
The WFRP Companion is also a good book to have. It's really just a collection of articles expanding something in the universe, but some of it is really useful. Heck, the monsters and the organizations alone were worth it for me. Ignore the trade rules.
Speaking of organizations, being new to the Empire you might want to grab Shades of Empire or whatever it's called. It's a book on several organizations within the Empire and while I didn't use it nonstop I got good use out of the Roadwarden, Hedgefolk, and Knights of Magritta sections. Also used the Brothers of Handrich section for an adventure I never got to run, so it was used a lot less, but used nonetheless. If you can get it cheap on eBay, go for it. I wouldn't pay full price for it though.
Actually, if given the chance I wouldn't have paid full price for the Companion either. Both are good to have, but not critical.
I really wish I had that Career Compendium. Perhaps I'll break down and get the .pdf? It still seems so expensive for such an ephemeral thing...
-=Grim=-
Makes me happy that I got the Tome of Corruption when I did!
I never even heard of the Career Compendium until now.. that must have been one of their final products before 3e?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;408495I never even heard of the Career Compendium until now.. that must have been one of their final products before 3e?
RPGPundit
Sadly, the last.
Yeah, it's very handy to have. Too bad the binding on mine sucks.
Quote from: MonkeyWrench;408577Yeah, it's very handy to have. Too bad the binding on mine sucks.
Yeah, mine started to disintegrate after two weeks. Although in part that's probably because it gets used so much.