Okay, in the second installment of -R. asks about games that he's overlooked, I want to know about Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

Is there a particular edition of the game that I'd want to check out?  Is everything good to go with just the main rulebook or are certain supplements extremely benefical?  &c.

I'm sure you'll hear from others, but I've done a little research on same, and here's my impression.

If you want a single rulebook that covers everything you'd need for a full campaign, you want first edition. It went through three printings, two from Games Workshop and one from Hogshead. The Hogshead is possibly the most desirable in that it supposedly incorporates the most errata, but I'm not sure it matters much.

If you want a more "up to date" version with more unified mechanics and, apparently, solutions to longstanding issues inherent in the system, then you'd want the Black Industries version, soon to be republished by Fantasy Flight. But unless FF changes the format, this version suffers from the post-90's problem of parceling out important bits of the system through several books.

Personally I just grabbed a copy of the softcover (revised) GW version since I found it cheap on eBay.

Elliot gets it in one. For a beginners overview of the setting 1E is definitely superior. For a smoother, more intergrated system 2E is the book to buy. Conversion between the two is easy because at heart they're the same game.

If product support ever does become an issue then second edition outdoes first by a long stretch. Setting details that were missing in the core get lavish treatment, building into the most comprehensive coverage of the Old World in print. The production values are far higher (glossy and full colour with excellent artwork), and whilst the trademark British humour is sometimes absent the more recent publications are in my opinion some of the best WFRP material to yet see print.

Whichever way you choose to jump you've picked a winner. Enjoy.

It's also worth pointing out that 2E has some of the best supplements put out for the game, ever, in the form of the revised Realms of Magic, the Tome of Corruption and the Tome of Salvation (as well as fun smaller supplements like Renegade Crowns).

On the other hand, the earlier supplements in the 2E line are, to my mind, of a lower quality. I'm not enough of an equipment-jockey to want the Old World Armoury, so I can't comment on it, but Sigmar's Heirs and the Old World Bestiary seem mainly devoted to covering material which should have been in the main rulebook. (Indeed, the 1E core is essentially the 2E core, plus the Old World Bestiary and Sigmar's Heirs, only it's lumbered with a crappy magic system), whereas I found Knights of the Grail to be pretty useless.

Quote from: WarthurOn the other hand, the earlier supplements in the 2E line are, to my mind, of a lower quality. I'm not enough of an equipment-jockey to want the Old World Armoury, so I can't comment on it, but Sigmar's Heirs and the Old World Bestiary seem mainly devoted to covering material which should have been in the main rulebook. (Indeed, the 1E core is essentially the 2E core, plus the Old World Bestiary and Sigmar's Heirs, only it's lumbered with a crappy magic system), whereas I found Knights of the Grail to be pretty useless.

I found the earlier supplements to be decent enough (and absoloutely loved the OWB), but agree that the recent books have surpassed all expectations. I believe WFRP was entering a bona fide renaissance in terms of quality, something which made GW's decision to pull the plug all the more galling. Ah well, I'm sure we'll see what the new licensees have to offer soon enough.

It's pretty much been covered.  The 1st ed book core book has more info then the 2nd ed core book.  However the quality of the 2nd ed book is superior and the rules revisions make it by far the better version.

Plus while the world setting info is handy, if you are planning on setting it in a very by the books version of Warhammer.  Then you don't really need it.  I find that generally I rarely crack the other 2nd ed books as it is.  Most of our play is strictly done from the core book.

Really? If so I've been steered wrong: I've been under the impression that the 2e book was missing fairly important bits of the system and hardware/accoutrements, not just fluffy setting stuff. Oh, well.

I know that if I were to choose between the two editions it'd be 2e every time.

And really, the most significant parts of the setting material are in the actual text of the rules themselves. You need only take a look at the careers to understand what life is like in the Empire. You need only look at the spell lists to understand how magic is viewed, or what the gods are all about.

RPGPundit

What system bits is it missing ?

I'm tempted to get the corebook and run a sesh or two from that.

Quote from: SeanWhat system bits is it missing ?

Nothing, really. Everything you need to run a game is there in the corebook.

I went ahead and bought the main 2e rulebook.  It contains what might well be the best arrangement of four words in any RPG book ever: "Small but vicious dog".

Any suggestions as to what supplements to pick up and in what order?

Here's a basic explanation of the system from another thread...

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9728&page=6

Quote from: Sacrificial LambWarhammer has "Characteristics", which are roughly similiar to Statistics. These characteristics have two columns. The first column is composed of Main Profile Characteristics which are usually generated by rolling 2d10+20. They're listed below:

* Weapon Skill (WS): Hand-to-hand combat skill, with or without weapons.
* Ballistic Skill (BS): Skill with missile weapons, like bows, crossbows, and pistols.
* Strength (S): Muscle and brawn.
* Toughness (T): Resistance to disease, injury, and poison.
* Agility (Ag): Physical quickness, manual dexterity, and reaction speed.
* Intelligence (Int): Intellect, insight, and ability to reason.
* Will Power (WP): Mental toughness and resolve.
* Fellowship (Fel): Charisma and social skills.

The second column is composed of Secondary Profile Characteristics:

* Attacks (A): Maximum number of attacks you make in 10 seconds.
* Wounds (W): Damage you can withstand (usually 10-20) before critical injury. Much like Hit Points. They don't increase much.
* Strength Bonus (SB): Derived from Strength, and used when inflicting damage in melee combat. A 36 Strength provides a SB of 3.
* Toughness Bonus (TB): Derived from Toughness, and used to resist damage. A 42 Toughness provides TB of 4.
* Movement (M): Base land speed, usually 3 to 5.
* Magic (Mag): Your magical power.
* Insanity Points (IP): The state of your sanity. You start with zero Insanity Points, but can gain them during play when horrible things happen to you.
* Fate Points (FP): Luck, and to a certain degree, your destiny. Fate Points can be used to escape Certain Death.  

Armor provides damage reduction.

Weapon damage is d10, plus a modifier (depending on the weapon, and possibly depending upon your Strength).

Initiative is also determined using a d10. Just add your Agility score to the roll. If I have a 32 Agility, and roll an 8, my final roll is 40 for Initiative. The highest roll wins.

Warhammer has Careers. They're kinda like Classes. Uh...kinda.  Troll Slayer is a Career. So is a Thief. And so is a Rat Catcher.

Each Career provides you with Skills and Talents. Talents are sorta like Feats, but without the prerequisites. You either have 'em due to your Race and Career, or you don't. Skills, on the other hand, are learnt proficiencies you gain by progressing through the various careers. Skills are percentile-based, and low rolls are good. If your Career has Swim as a Skill, then you'd roll equal to your Strength score or less on a percentile roll to succeed. If you don't have the Skill, you'd make a Skill Test as normal, but halve the Characteristic (rounding up).

So if I'm making a Swim check (and if I don't have the Swim skill), and my Strength is 32, I'd have a 16% chance of successfully swimming across the river with the strong current. If I had Swim as a Career Skill, then my chance of success would be 32%.

There are Skill Modifiers, based upon how difficult something is.

There are Basic Skills and Advanced Skills. Anyone can attempt a Basic Skill, but you can only use an Advanced Skill if it's on your Career Skill list.

You can Dodge and Parry in the game, and have the option of using Critical Hits.

The tone of Warhammer is sword 'n sorcery, grim and gritty, with undertones of dark humor. It has typical Demihumans, and Orcs and Goblins as well. Magic is wild, unpredictable, and dangerous. No spell slots or spell points here. The tech level is a bit higher than typical D&D, more along the lines of Renaissance than Middle Ages.

There's more to it than that, but other folks here can explain more about the setting and rules of the game. Warhammer 2e is an excellent rpg. It really oozes with flavor.....

Quote from: -R.I went ahead and bought the main 2e rulebook.  It contains what might well be the best arrangement of four words in any RPG book ever: "Small but vicious dog".

Any suggestions as to what supplements to pick up and in what order?

The Old World Bestiary - Non essential, but a great marriage of system and setting that will satisfy your monstering needs for years to come.

Sigmar's Heirs - An in-depth treatment of the Empire and it's provinces. Some readers find the writing a little dry, and the population stats seem small, but in my opinion it offers a great overview of the primary setting.

The Big Three - Namely Realms of Sorcery, Tome of Corruption and the Tome of Salvation. Purchase order will depend on which aspects of the setting and system you want to focus on, but for overall utility I'd recommend Salvation.

The WFRP Comapanion - An excellent compilation of articles that help breathe life into the odder aspects of the setting.


I'd measure everything else by it's enjoyment factor. Favourites of mine include Nights Dark Masters, Renegade Crowns, Children of the Horned Rat and and Realm of the Ice Queen.

Drew summed up the most important ones for me. Personally, I'd prioritise the Big Three; the value for money you get (especially with the two Tomes) is insane.

I also like Renegade Crowns, because it has a nice subsystem for coming up with a little border princedom on the edge of the Empire - a nice compromise if you want the flavour and background of the Old World without the weight of canon that playing in the Empire itself carries with it.

One thing that tipped me over to using 2e was the great free material out there. Black Industries' site is just the start. Very little need to make my own from scratch, esp. with the 1e, Mordheim, WFB or just pure fluff stuff as well. And the amazing maps. :cool:

All for free! :pundit:

some to start you off: (no map sites in this list )
Kalevala Hammer
Liber Fantatica
Specialist Games - Mordheim (also has wilderness, Araby Kherim, Lustria etc. supplements)
Specialist Games - Warmaster (good for quick views of factions, campaign ideas, battle flavor & big plots/artifacts/monsters)
Winds of Chaos (love the critical hits redo; (online version)

I keep most of the 2e rules as is then base most of my background on 1e, earlier WFB army books, Blackadder, Discworld, Grimm's Fairy Tales and early GW artwork and whatever I come up with during session.

edit: don't forget
Custard falling from the sky!
(I use this video as my litmus test for potential players)