With the future release of the Warhammer 40k RPG I was wondering if the Warhammer 40k Role Playing game will bring some of the 40k miniature game players over to the rpg side of things who currently only play the miniatures game.

I know there are people who play both, but there are some who only play the miniature game.  Do you think the 40K game might recruit them over to the RPG Side?

Quote from: Blue DevilDo you think there is a chance that maybe fans of the Warhammer miniatures game might be interested in role playing in the universe, give the rpg a try and maybe become a gamers?

Warhammer players AREN'T gamers already?  WTF?

Quote from: GMSkarkaWarhammer players AREN'T gamers already?  WTF?

Ok, maybe I needed to be clearer (I will fix the OP).

While there are people who play both RPGS and the Warhammer 40k Miniatures games, I know there are 40k players who don't play RPGS.

I was wondering if the 40k RPG might bring Miniatures only players to the rpg side of things

Yes, I think it's inevitable that the RPG will attract some of the wargamers.

The real question is how many?

If GW decided to stock the game on the shelves of their retail outlets, backing the release with aggresseive marketing, demos and the like then it could be huge. They won't do that, though, so at best I think we'll see a trickle of new blood rather than a flood.

Quote from: DrewYes, I think it's inevitable that the RPG will attract some of the wargamers.

The real question is how many?

Well that's always the gamble though.

When you go to create a rpg you don't know how many gamers are going to play it.

It's not like "Ok, I created this game and 5000 people are going to play it", it could be more could be less.  Like everything in business and publishing it's a gamble.

It would be nice if it brought in a ton of new gamers who in turn start playing other games as well.

Quote from: DrewIf GW decided to stock the game on the shelves of their retail outlets backing the release with aggresseive marketing, demos and the like then it could be huge. They won't do that, though, so at best I think we'll see a trickle of new blood rather than a flood.

I have no idea why GW would be like this.   It's a licensed game which, correct me if I am wrong they stand to make some money off of, there was an article that the sales of their miniatures are down why wouldn't they work as hard as they could to bring in money whereever they can?

Quote from: Blue DevilI have no idea why GW would be like this.   It's a licensed game which, correct me if I am wrong they stand to make some money off of, there was an article that the sales of their miniatures are down why wouldn't they work as hard as they could to bring in money whereever they can?

Try reading the 'Games Workshop: Set to Self Destruct?' thread. My OP quotes an ex-employee waxing lyrical about their current business methodology.  Later posts delve into the murky water of how and why GW could be better supporting their licensed RPGs.

Be warned, though. There's a lot of threadcrapping and outright nonsense in there.

I've already stated it in another thread here, but I'll state it again:  no.

It will sell primarily to a subset of the existing WFRP fanbase, and that's about it.  

GW hates RPGs and only begrudgingly allows any of the RP games to be made, and thusly won't give it any cross promotion, because they fear it will take away sales from miniatures.

On top of that, the basic concept of the first game being release is idiotic and unappealing.  No gamer wants to buy a game where they spend the entire think taking orders from a GMPC.  Inquisitor retinue my ass.  

And support for any other modes of play is being put off into other books that are months down the line.

The 40k RPG is being designed to fail, and likely because of GW's influence.  40k is their favorite cash cow, and anything that could potentially split that market off into something that doesn't involve spending $20 for a single lead figure is anathema to them.  

And again, you're also making the same mistake made in the WoW RPG thread:  Just because something's popular in another sphere of entertainment, doesn't mean that popularity will traslate directly to another sphere of entertainment.  

It's been my experience that a lot of those GW wargame players have over the years been just as indoctrinated with GW's attitude towards roleplaying, and that by and large the only cross-pollination is between individuals who got into roleplaying early on, often either during WFRP1's days when GW wasn't yet in full on RPG-hate mode, or because they started roleplaying first.

How popular was Inquisitor?

Quote from: signoftheserpentHow popular was Inquisitor?

Not.

Quote from: J ArcaneGW hates RPGs and only begrudgingly allows any of the RP games to be made, and thusly won't give it any cross promotion, because they fear it will take away sales from miniatures.

Well, if by "hates RPGs and only begrudgingly allows any of the RP games to be made" you actually mean "publishes them through their own book division"....

and if by "won't give it any cross promotion because they fear it will take away sales from miniatures" you mean "pushes heavily into the mass-market book trade, where their book division is carried heavily and none of their miniatures lines even appear"....

Well, then.....yeah, I guess.

Quote from: GMSkarkaWell, if by "hates RPGs and only begrudgingly allows any of the RP games to be made" you actually mean "publishes them through their own book division"....

and if by "won't give it any cross promotion because they fear it will take away sales from miniatures" you mean "pushes heavily into the mass-market book trade, where their book division is carried heavily and none of their miniatures lines even appear"....

Well, then.....yeah, I guess.

I've yet to see WFRP2 on the shelf next to the rest of the Black Library fanfiction.  Or hear of it sitting in GW stores across the country.  

GW treats it's RPGs about the same as it treats the Specialist Games range.

They didn't even develop it in house, they farm it out to another company and then just printed the result.

Quote from: J ArcaneI've yet to see WFRP2 on the shelf next to the rest of the Black Library fanfiction.  Or hear of it sitting in GW stores across the country.  

....and yet, it's sitting in the RPG sections of Borders, Waldenbooks, Hastings, B. Dalton, Virgin Megastore, etc. etc., which outnumber the GW stores worldwide by a considerable sum.

Sorry, but you're really stretching.

Quote from: J ArcaneI've already stated it in another thread here, but I'll state it again:  no.

It will sell primarily to a subset of the existing WFRP fanbase, and that's about it.  

GW hates RPGs and only begrudgingly allows any of the RP games to be made, and thusly won't give it any cross promotion, because they fear it will take away sales from miniatures.

From what I have read from the article and thread about GW's problems what you are telling me is not surprising at all.

Kind of sad really

Quote from: J ArcaneOn top of that, the basic concept of the first game being release is idiotic and unappealing.  No gamer wants to buy a game where they spend the entire think taking orders from a GMPC.  Inquisitor retinue my ass.  

And support for any other modes of play is being put off into other books that are months down the line.

The 40k RPG is being designed to fail, and likely because of GW's influence.  40k is their favorite cash cow, and anything that could potentially split that market off into something that doesn't involve spending $20 for a single lead figure is anathema to them.  

And again, you're also making the same mistake made in the WoW RPG thread:  Just because something's popular in another sphere of entertainment, doesn't mean that popularity will traslate directly to another sphere of entertainment.  

It's been my experience that a lot of those GW wargame players have over the years been just as indoctrinated with GW's attitude towards roleplaying, and that by and large the only cross-pollination is between individuals who got into roleplaying early on, often either during WFRP1's days when GW wasn't yet in full on RPG-hate mode, or because they started roleplaying first.

The 3 book is unapealing and I have heard others say it as well so I think you are right on this point as well.

Agreed, thinking because something is popular in one sphere doesn't mean it will be in another sphere.   As I pointed out in the post where I said it would be a gamble I meant it would be a gamble on whether it would bring in players from the miniatures game AND it would be a gamble if it would be successful.

But from the things you have outlined it appears GW is doing everything it can to doom it before it is even released

Quote from: Blue DevilI was wondering if the 40k RPG might bring Miniatures only players to the rpg side of things

Well, I’ll give you my humble opinion (which I know you don’t personally have much respect for).  I don’t think it will have very much success as a RPG (by that, I mean becoming a major power in the RPG industry), despite the fact that it seems like it will.

The WFRP (v2) had very little appeal to WFB fans as a whole.  The people who really picked up on the RPG were mostly those die-hards who had been fans already (of WFRP v1) for decades.  A few hardcore WFB fans have purchased choice books simply for the setting material for expanding their battles campaigns, but I have seen very little crossover (as a one time serious fan of both games, a regular competitor in Rogue trader tournaments, and also a WFRP 1st ed GM).  Most WFB and 40K players simply have no interest in RPGs.  Miniature gaming is really an entirely different hobby, and crossover isn’t as natural as some may think (hell, look at how many RPGers adamantly detest using minis in their RPGs.)

In fact, I think 40 K will have less appeal (than WFRP), since the battles gamers seem to be younger than the fantasy battles players.  Thus, generally less interest in the setting and fluff than just fighting out mini battles.  40K doesn’t have the original fan base that the fantasy game already had, and 40K just isn’t going to have the opportunities for solid fundamental adventures like fantasy does.

So yes, I think it will bring in a few mini players, but overall, not many.  40K will most likely appeal to preexisting RPG players who have always thought that 40K looked cool…but they don’t play mini games.

Quote from: GMSkarka....and yet, it's sitting in the RPG sections of Borders, Waldenbooks, Hastings, B. Dalton, Virgin Megastore, etc. etc., which outnumber the GW stores worldwide by a considerable sum.

Sorry, but you're really stretching.

Show me pictures.

I'm serious.  I've never seen anything other than D&D releases in a Barnes & Noble or a Borders, and the one Waldenbooks I ever found that went beyond that did so because they had an assistant manager who was basically turning it into their own personal FLGS.

The book's in the distribution channels, sure, but that means jack fucking shit.  For $500 you can get any Lulu book in the big three book distributors.

But it takes actual promotion effort to get them on the shelves, and I've seen no evidence that GW is putting any such effort into things.

For fuck's sake, they even hide the shit on their own site.  There's no mention of WFRP on the main GW page, and even on the Black Library page, it's not included or mentioned openly in any way, instead it's hid behind a very fine print image link to the Black Industries sub-label at the bottom right.