WANNA REPLACE GURPS (lite) FANTASY?
http://www.stargazergames.eu/warrior-rogue-mage/ (http://www.stargazergames.eu/warrior-rogue-mage/)
Warrior, Rogue & Mage (for me) is everything kewl from GURPS Fantasy without the mountains of crunch I never enjoyed from GURPS.
Fans of GURPS lite & Fantasy RPGs will probably enjoy W,R&M (often called Wyrm by fans) and I can confirm it runs great at the table and there's PLENTY of bips and bobs to customize your campaign and characters. Not to the Nth degree like GURPS, but more than enough to run a kewl campaign of kewlness.
And it's free. With lots of supplements. Which are also free.
And also on DriveThruRPG and Stargazer's own site.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/82643/Warrior-Rogue--Mage?cPath=5635_5757 (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/82643/Warrior-Rogue--Mage?cPath=5635_5757)
However, I know NOTHING about the author's politics...and hope to never know.
Cool, I'll check it out...
Dare I say, for those seeking a replacement for GURPS, that Hero System never went anywhere :-)
I think there's a real need for a fan driven alternative to GURPS. I've take a few stabs at it from a variety of angles but nothing ever really felt right. It's hard to get a concensus because GURPS is something different to everyone. But it seems to me a unified stat set and range and skill list would be the important part. One might envision a dozen combat systems to meet every need but the data needs to be compatible.
Quote from: David Johansen on July 13, 2022, 08:38:21 PM
I think there's a real need for a fan driven alternative to GURPS. I've take a few stabs at it from a variety of angles but nothing ever really felt right. It's hard to get a concensus because GURPS is something different to everyone. But it seems to me a unified stat set and range and skill list would be the important part. One might envision a dozen combat systems to meet every need but the data needs to be compatible.
IIRC 3DT (a Brazilian RPG) is 3d6 based and it's author placed it in the public domain.
There's also Action! but that's a Hero or Fuzion clone, it's OGL.
It's a pretty good game, I've had it for years. But why do you compare it specifically to GURPS (or GURPS lite I guess). What do you think makes it a good alternative to GL in particular?
(Not criticizing, just curious about your reasoning)
Quote from: Joey2k on July 14, 2022, 12:16:46 AMIt's a pretty good game, I've had it for years. But why do you compare it specifically to GURPS (or GURPS lite I guess). What do you think makes it a good alternative to GL in particular?
Minimal Stats
Rules lite universal system
Lots of Kewl Ability & Skill Choices
No Classes, but easy to emulate any class
Many options to customize the ruleset & campaign
A dozen supplements with stacks of goodies
Quote from: Joey2k on July 14, 2022, 12:16:46 AM
. . . But why do you compare it specifically to GURPS (or GURPS lite I guess) . . .
Plus with a post like that, it will suck in a GURPS fan like me to check out his post.
It is a cool little game.
Not much to do with GURPS.
I'm almost tempted to write my own version of GURPS but it wouldn't have a zillion skills, which is why I stopped playing the game.
Also, D&D stats are better than GURPS; most GURPS fans agre that Int does too much by taking Charisma, Perception and Willpower in a single stat, and even Kromm mentions Charisma is too cheap in GURPS.
Quote from: Spinachcat on July 14, 2022, 03:58:24 AM
Quote from: Joey2k on July 14, 2022, 12:16:46 AMIt's a pretty good game, I've had it for years. But why do you compare it specifically to GURPS (or GURPS lite I guess). What do you think makes it a good alternative to GL in particular?
Minimal Stats
Rules lite universal system
Lots of Kewl Ability & Skill Choices
No Classes, but easy to emulate any class
Many options to customize the ruleset & campaign
A dozen supplements with stacks of goodies
Is it really universal? From reading the core system, it seems strictly medieval fantasy - and very few of my GURPS games were medieval fantasy. Could it handle post-apocalyptic steampunk or space opera?
I'm a sucker for classless systems, even if I'm probably never going to run them. Thanks for the recommendation, WYRM sounds like a lot of fun.
Quote from: jhkim on July 14, 2022, 09:45:23 PMIs it really universal? From reading the core system, it seems strictly medieval fantasy - and very few of my GURPS games were medieval fantasy. Could it handle post-apocalyptic steampunk or space opera?
I don't believe GURPS (or any system) is universal. Every system does some genre better than it does others, and no alleged universal system is going to please everyone.
WyRM is built for heroic fantasy. Could it do post-apoc, steampunk or space opera? Probably with some reskinning of talents and depending how much fantasy is involved in those campaigns. Could WyRM do Space Fantasy, aka Star Wars? Probably without much effort, but D6 Star Wars does that genre better.
As is, WyRM could do World of WarCraft very well - especially when you use the bells and whistles of the supplements to tweak and tune the campaign. But could it do StarCraft equally well? Doubtful.
Quote from: jhkim on July 14, 2022, 09:45:23 PM
Is it really universal? From reading the core system, it seems strictly medieval fantasy - and very few of my GURPS games were medieval fantasy. Could it handle post-apocalyptic steampunk or space opera?
Here are some of my opinions:
Is GURPS really universal? Yes. Absolutely.
Can it do post-apocalyptical? Sure. No problem. Go grab "High-Tech" and maybe "Ultra-Tech" for the really advanced future tech toys. The real question for the GM is how devolved is your post-apocalyptic is your setting? What's available? What's not?
Steampunk? As a separate genre from post-apocalyptic yes. Figure out what flavor you want for your steampunk and there's GURPS "Cyberpunk" setting book to help with those elements.
Space Opera? Maybe? GURPS tends to do well with grounded Role Playing settings. Can it handle mystical powers? Sure. GURPS Magic may not work as well thematically, but check out GURPS Powers for how to budget and balance super powers/mutations/psionics. As the GM you'll need to spend some time figuring out what powers are appropriate for your setting.
While I have never participated in a Super Heroes campaign (in ANY genre or rule set) in theory GURPS Powers has the guide stones for making low powered superheroes.
I wrapped up a Cyberpunk campaign this spring using GURPS.
I think the most important thing to consider when approaching using GURPS is to remember that you're not going to be using EVERYTHING in GURPS (unless you're running a Banestorm campaign) but you'll need to figure out what elements of GURPS are appropriate for your setting.
And yes. GURPS excels at pulp Fantasy. In part I believe that GURPS Magic is the best magic system ever developed for a roleplaying game.
Quote from: Spinachcat on July 13, 2022, 04:38:41 PM
WANNA REPLACE GURPS (lite) FANTASY?
http://www.stargazergames.eu/warrior-rogue-mage/ (http://www.stargazergames.eu/warrior-rogue-mage/)
Warrior, Rogue & Mage (for me) is everything kewl from GURPS Fantasy without the mountains of crunch I never enjoyed from GURPS.
Will check it out. Thanks.
ADDED:
Um. This game is too lite to even be compared to GURPS. It's barely a game mechanic.
Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 15, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: jhkim on July 14, 2022, 09:45:23 PM
Is it really universal? From reading the core system, it seems strictly medieval fantasy - and very few of my GURPS games were medieval fantasy. Could it handle post-apocalyptic steampunk or space opera?
Here are some of my opinions:
Is GURPS really universal? Yes. Absolutely.
Mark Caliber - sorry if I was unclear. My question was whether Warrior, Rogue, & Mage is universal, not whether GURPS is. No system is "universal" in the sense of pleasing everyone and doing everything, but some systems are designed for multiple settings and genres - like GURPS, Hero System, Savage Worlds, and Basic Roleplaying.
Though to be fair, the subject from the original post (OP) does suggest it as a replacement for GURPS (lite) Fantasy - but Spinachcat cited it as a universal system. I've only read the core game, but it is built for a particular fantasy setting - and it looks like there are 5 supplements which are all expanding the fantasy setting.
Quote from: jhkim on July 15, 2022, 02:15:35 PM
Mark Caliber - sorry if I was unclear. My question was whether Warrior, Rogue, & Mage is universal, not whether GURPS is.
Ah, no worries. Now that we've clarified that question we can dig into that point of topic! (I have no opinion on WRME so I will not comment to that question)
Quote from: jhkim on July 15, 2022, 02:15:35 PM
No system is "universal" in the sense of pleasing everyone and doing everything,
From an gaming industry perspective "Universal" RPG's have never been defined in this way.
The only game that seems to have 'universal' appeal seems to be D&D, but even that game fails to be 'universally' appealing.
D&D has the edge because it was first and first to market itself well.
Quote from: jhkim on July 15, 2022, 02:15:35 PM
but some systems are designed for multiple settings and genres - like GURPS, Hero System, Savage Worlds, and Basic Roleplaying.
Since GURPS was designed from the ground up to address multiple genres well it and since GURPS IV (Fourth Edition) literally went through a decade of extensive playtesting, I think as an end product, GURPS does what it was designed to do fairly well.
I also happen to prefer the core gaming mechanics aside from it's genre versatility.
I haven't played Hero System, but it has a reputation for being even more crunchy and complicated than GURPS is professed to be.
Savage World (herein "SW") (IMHO) is overly simplistic. While it professes to handle multiple genres well, I think the SW it's simply just its own rule sets with different setting skins slapped on top of it.
"Basic Roleplaying" is a new term for me. Any insight on what this is?
While I stumbled into this topic due to the mention of GURPS, I'll admit that my problem isn't finding a GURPS replacement but in finding GURPS players.
Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 15, 2022, 02:37:37 PM
Quote from: jhkim on July 15, 2022, 02:15:35 PM
but some systems are designed for multiple settings and genres - like GURPS, Hero System, Savage Worlds, and Basic Roleplaying.
Since GURPS was designed from the ground up to address multiple genres well it and since GURPS IV (Fourth Edition) literally went through a decade of extensive playtesting, I think as an end product, GURPS does what it was designed to do fairly well.
I also happen to prefer the core gaming mechanics aside from it's genre versatility.
I haven't played Hero System, but it has a reputation for being even more crunchy and complicated than GURPS is professed to be.
Savage World (herein "SW") (IMHO) is overly simplistic. While it professes to handle multiple genres well, I think the SW it's simply just its own rule sets with different setting skins slapped on top of it.
"Basic Roleplaying" is a new term for me. Any insight on what this is?
Filling you in a little on Hero System and Basic Roleplaying (BRP) --
Hero System is a little more complicated than GURPS at present, but I would say 4th edition Hero System (1989) is roughly equivalent to 4th edition GURPS (2004). Still, both of them are overly complicated for most gamers today.
Basic Roleplaying is the name of the Chaosium core percentile system. Versions of this system were used in RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, but it was published independently in 1982 as the first universal RPG, "Worlds of Wonder" that included three genre books: Magic World, Future World, and Super World. Here's about the original game:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_of_Wonder_(game)
Here's the current edition from Chaosium:
https://www.chaosium.com/basic-roleplaying/
Quote from: jhkim on July 15, 2022, 05:00:34 PM
Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 15, 2022, 02:37:37 PM
Quote from: jhkim on July 15, 2022, 02:15:35 PM
but some systems are designed for multiple settings and genres - like GURPS, Hero System, Savage Worlds, and Basic Roleplaying.
Since GURPS was designed from the ground up to address multiple genres well it and since GURPS IV (Fourth Edition) literally went through a decade of extensive playtesting, I think as an end product, GURPS does what it was designed to do fairly well.
I also happen to prefer the core gaming mechanics aside from it's genre versatility.
I haven't played Hero System, but it has a reputation for being even more crunchy and complicated than GURPS is professed to be.
Savage World (herein "SW") (IMHO) is overly simplistic. While it professes to handle multiple genres well, I think the SW it's simply just its own rule sets with different setting skins slapped on top of it.
"Basic Roleplaying" is a new term for me. Any insight on what this is?
Filling you in a little on Hero System and Basic Roleplaying (BRP) --
Hero System is a little more complicated than GURPS at present, but I would say 4th edition Hero System (1989) is roughly equivalent to 4th edition GURPS (2004). Still, both of them are overly complicated for most gamers today.
Basic Roleplaying is the name of the Chaosium core percentile system. Versions of this system were used in RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, but it was published independently in 1982 as the first universal RPG, "Worlds of Wonder" that included three genre books: Magic World, Future World, and Super World. Here's about the original game:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_of_Wonder_(game)
Here's the current edition from Chaosium:
https://www.chaosium.com/basic-roleplaying/
Mark,
I can let you borrow my copy of the most recent edition of BRP if you'd like.
I actually downloaded the free pdf of the BRP and got a good preview of the rules.
I did play a couple of games of RuneQuest WAY BACK when and it looks the Chaosium has updated and made their skills systems work better than the original RuneQuest rules.
I'm guessing that BRP works a bit better than D&D? What are your experiences with BRP vs D&D?
Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 15, 2022, 05:24:15 PM
I actually downloaded the free pdf of the BRP and got a good preview of the rules.
I did play a couple of games of RuneQuest WAY BACK when and it looks the Chaosium has updated and made their skills systems work better than the original RuneQuest rules.
I'm guessing that BRP works a bit better than D&D? What are your experiences with BRP vs D&D?
So far, my experience is that it takes up less shelf space than my D&D books. I've never played it, and I only bought it because it was on a clearance shelf for $10. It was in perfect shape and was interesting to flip through, but I never pursued it any further.
Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 15, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
In part I believe that GURPS Magic is the best magic system ever developed for a roleplaying game.
OK, sell me on Gurps Magic. What are the basic rules? How does it work? How does it scale? How flexible is it? Give me some examples, because I'm curious about different approaches to magic...
Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 15, 2022, 05:24:15 PM
I actually downloaded the free pdf of the BRP and got a good preview of the rules.
I did play a couple of games of RuneQuest WAY BACK when and it looks the Chaosium has updated and made their skills systems work better than the original RuneQuest rules.
I'm guessing that BRP works a bit better than D&D? What are your experiences with BRP vs D&D?
I've played a bunch of Call of Cthulhu and some variant RuneQuest which use the BRP system, but never used BRP universal book directly.
I don't think I can compare it to D&D, because it's very different genres. Call of Cthulhu is horror with PCs regularly dying or doing insane. In my experience, BRP tends to be even grittier and/or more realistic than GURPS. In principle, it can be high power, but that doesn't seem to be where the focus is. I've generally used it for more down-to-earth games where the PCs were regular people caught up in big events.
GURPS, and any OSR-like attempts, needs to be simplified suites... little bundles of skills tied to a setting. That and an on-table cheat sheet for core mechanics resolution. Those two things, a) skill deluge, and b) 1 second round analysis paralysis, kills most new player interest dead on contact. GURPS needs new blood more that it needs another mechanics book, and for that it needs glossy, normie-friendly re-packaging. Normies barely want to think for their entertainment; they typically want to sit passively and be pleasured and then move on. Quick (chargen), easy (decision trees), disposable (mechanics experience). KISS design.
This is a relevant topic, in light of SJG's latest statement. Many GURPS players are probably shopping for a replacement.
Quote from: Opaopajr on July 17, 2022, 04:22:55 AM
GURPS, and any OSR-like attempts, needs to be simplified suites... little bundles of skills tied to a setting. That and an on-table cheat sheet for core mechanics resolution. Those two things, a) skill deluge, and b) 1 second round analysis paralysis, kills most new player interest dead on contact. GURPS needs new blood more that it needs another mechanics book, and for that it needs glossy, normie-friendly re-packaging. Normies barely want to think for their entertainment; they typically want to sit passively and be pleasured and then move on. Quick (chargen), easy (decision trees), disposable (mechanics experience). KISS design.
GURPS purists denouncing you as an apostate in 5, 4, 3...
Seriously tho, this is something that has been propossed before (and said purists got their panties in a bunch). There's a reason why IMHO GURPS
ONLY good products are their setting books.
Overcomplicated BS rubs me the wrong way.
But then Again I favor Champions over Hero and have said MANY times that Hero should stop producing RULE
BRICKS BOOKS and focus on producing whole self contained games a la Fantasy, Cyberpunk, etc Hero.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 16, 2022, 12:12:16 AM
Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 15, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
In part I believe that GURPS Magic is the best magic system ever developed for a roleplaying game.
OK, sell me on Gurps Magic. What are the basic rules? How does it work? How does it scale? How flexible is it? Give me some examples, because I'm curious about different approaches to magic...
I'll try by best. Here goes.
* Spells, in GURPS are skills. So each spell you pick up is a new skill. When it comes time to cast a spell, the player rolls a skill check to see if the spell succeeds. (Stands to reason as GURPS is a skills based RPG).
* Mana. In addition to doing a skill check the spells have a Mana cost that needs to be paid. There are generally three sources for Mana: 1) Fatigue Points from the spell Caster, 2) Hit Points (also from the spell caster), and 3) Lastly there are a handful of external sources one can use. Typically, Powerstones are used as they can store up Mana over time and that power can be channeled into spells.
Usually, Fatigue Points are the preferred currency. But if you spend all of those, you become exhausted and can faint. Hit points are possible and yes, a Mage can literally kill themselves while casting a powerful spell.
Powerstones have limitations, but they're well worth their price. Be sure to pick some up at the store while your out and about.
With some spells the caster can inject a variable amount of Mana into the spell. The Fireball Spell, for instance, the caster can inject Mana equivalent to their Magery level. Most PC's are encouraged to have at least a Magery 3 so a player character should be able to channel between 1 to 3 Mana into a basic fireball spell, which conversely makes the fireball more powerful.
Last point about Mana; a Mage that achieves advanced levels of skill mastery can cast spells at a reduced Mana cost (as they tap into external mana rather than grabbing it all internally). So a Mage expert in Fireball, has the option to cast low powered fireballs all day long.
* Advanced Spells and Prerequisites. More powerful spells require a Mage to learn simpler spells first. As an example, one of the basic Fire college spells "Fireball" (most similar to D&D Firebolt or eldritch blast) requires a Mage to know the two spells Create Fire & Shape Fire before Fireball can be learned.
And to learn the spell "Explosive Fireball" one needs to master Fireball first.
Though its different from the other skills in GURPS I love how the magic systems has this built on feeling. Sure you can Cast an awesome spell like "Fire Cloud" but you won't be casting that on your first day at the Mages Academy. Spells like that take some time to master.
* There are over 400 unique spells in the GURPS Magic sourcebook.
That's more spells than pages in the D&D Players Handbook and Dungeon Masters Guide COMBINED! (Sure, I exaggerate. But not by much . . .)!
The possibilities of what's possible are mind blowing. Not for the weak of mind or the faint of heart to be sure. The diversity of spells available allow players to create Mages of different focuses and capabilities. I once played a "Ranger" whose most impressive spell was "Rain of NUTS!" which he actually used to great effect.
* Flexible? Yeah GURPS is flexible and so is GURPS Magic.
As a GM you can just use the default GURPS Magic rules but there are variations available. If you want to have a healing specific Clerical mage class available, instead of taking the "Magery" advantage (a prerequisite for spell casters) pick up the Clerical Endowment (sp) Advantage and limit those clerics to healing college spells only.
And there are Magic limiting disadvantages that limit casters to one or a handful of colleges too, for added forced focus, if the players so choose.
* Spell slots? How stupid. GURPS Mages generally can cast WAY more spells than their D&D equivalent. Indeed, those life and death combat spells that an adventuring Mage needs can be cast all day without the issue of running out of arrows, like that poor archer.
* Memorized spells? Of course your spells are memorized in GURPS! You couldn't cast any of these spells until you memorize them! But once you do, you cast those spells a will. Once a spell is learned it STAYS learned. Casters can cast any spell they know so long as they have the Mana to power that spell. And they can cast it as often as they wish, so long as they are awake and have mana to pour into their spells. For a D&D parallel, Mages can recharge on a "short rest."
If your mages spends time in the morning memorizing spells, its time spent memorizing NEW spells. It may take you a couple of weeks, but once a new spell is picked up it stays learned.
* Sleep? Who needs sleep? Well everyone does actually. You can go crazy without sleep. Sleep deprivation is bad!!! But missing a nights sleep isn't any worse off for a Mage than it is for the Meat Shield. I mean fighter.
In conclusion, those are some of the basics to GURPS Magic and some of the reasons why it appeals to me. From a meta standpoint, the GURPS Magic system makes more sense than anything else I've seen.
Sure there are nay-sayers who are going to complain that GURPS is too hard (for you). And you're right. It's too difficult. GURPS has long been the purview of the erudite intellectual.
That said, when I wrote my comparison article on GURPS where I compared it to D&D 5E (Herein available: https://www.jongedge.com/rpg-articles/gurpsreview/ ) I noted that GURPS 4th Edition is actually simpler than D&D 5E . . . (Yes I know the Wordpress site is broken. Just click the "close" button at the bottom of the page to finish loaded. I'm working on a Cobalt Template format for the site and that should be up and running by the end of August 2022). In reality, the Magic rules for GURPS is a handful of pages and then has options for variety. The vast majority of GURPS Magic is the catalogue of 400+ unique spells.
My observations have also led me to believe that anyone too lazy to learn GURPS is also too lazy to actually learn D&D 5E.
However, GURPS Magic has over 400 spells! That alone is a steep learning curve. But it's one that I enjoyed climbing.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 17, 2022, 12:11:06 PM
GURPS purists denouncing you as an apostate in 5, 4, 3...
I might be the only GURPS purist on this site . . .
BUT guilty as charged!
Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 17, 2022, 12:30:19 PM
Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 16, 2022, 12:12:16 AM
Quote from: Mark Caliber on July 15, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
In part I believe that GURPS Magic is the best magic system ever developed for a roleplaying game.
OK, sell me on Gurps Magic. What are the basic rules? How does it work? How does it scale? How flexible is it? Give me some examples, because I'm curious about different approaches to magic...
I'll try by best. Here goes.
* Spells, in GURPS are skills. So each spell you pick up is a new skill. When it comes time to cast a spell, the player rolls a skill check to see if the spell succeeds. (Stands to reason as GURPS is a skills based RPG).
* Mana. In addition to doing a skill check the spells have a Mana cost that needs to be paid. There are generally three sources for Mana: 1) Fatigue Points from the spell Caster, 2) Hit Points (also from the spell caster), and 3) Lastly there are a handful of external sources one can use. Typically, Powerstones are used as they can store up Mana over time and that power can be channeled into spells.
Usually, Fatigue Points are the preferred currency. But if you spend all of those, you become exhausted and can faint. Hit points are possible and yes, a Mage can literally kill themselves while casting a powerful spell.
Powerstones have limitations, but they're well worth their price. Be sure to pick some up at the store while your out and about.
With some spells the caster can inject a variable amount of Mana into the spell. The Fireball Spell, for instance, the caster can inject Mana equivalent to their Magery level. Most PC's are encouraged to have at least a Magery 3 so a player character should be able to channel between 1 to 3 Mana into a basic fireball spell, which conversely makes the fireball more powerful.
Last point about Mana; a Mage that achieves advanced levels of skill mastery can cast spells at a reduced Mana cost (as they tap into external mana rather than grabbing it all internally). So a Mage expert in Fireball, has the option to cast low powered fireballs all day long.
* Advanced Spells and Prerequisites. More powerful spells require a Mage to learn simpler spells first. As an example, one of the basic Fire college spells "Fireball" (most similar to D&D Firebolt or eldritch blast) requires a Mage to know the two spells Create Fire & Shape Fire before Fireball can be learned.
And to learn the spell "Explosive Fireball" one needs to master Fireball first.
Though its different from the other skills in GURPS I love how the magic systems has this built on feeling. Sure you can Cast an awesome spell like "Fire Cloud" but you won't be casting that on your first day at the Mages Academy. Spells like that take some time to master.
* There are over 400 unique spells in the GURPS Magic sourcebook.
That's more spells than pages in the D&D Players Handbook and Dungeon Masters Guide COMBINED! (Sure, I exaggerate. But not by much . . .)!
The possibilities of what's possible are mind blowing. Not for the weak of mind or the faint of heart to be sure. The diversity of spells available allow players to create Mages of different focuses and capabilities. I once played a "Ranger" whose most impressive spell was "Rain of NUTS!" which he actually used to great effect.
* Flexible? Yeah GURPS is flexible and so is GURPS Magic.
As a GM you can just use the default GURPS Magic rules but there are variations available. If you want to have a healing specific Clerical mage class available, instead of taking the "Magery" advantage (a prerequisite for spell casters) pick up the Clerical Endowment (sp) Advantage and limit those clerics to healing college spells only.
And there are Magic limiting disadvantages that limit casters to one or a handful of colleges too, for added forced focus, if the players so choose.
* Spell slots? How stupid. GURPS Mages generally can cast WAY more spells than their D&D equivalent. Indeed, those life and death combat spells that an adventuring Mage needs can be cast all day without the issue of running out of arrows, like that poor archer.
* Memorized spells? Of course your spells are memorized in GURPS! You couldn't cast any of these spells until you memorize them! But once you do, you cast those spells a will. Once a spell is learned it STAYS learned. Casters can cast any spell they know so long as they have the Mana to power that spell. And they can cast it as often as they wish, so long as they are awake and have mana to pour into their spells. For a D&D parallel, Mages can recharge on a "short rest."
If your mages spends time in the morning memorizing spells, its time spent memorizing NEW spells. It may take you a couple of weeks, but once a new spell is picked up it stays learned.
* Sleep? Who needs sleep? Well everyone does actually. You can go crazy without sleep. Sleep deprivation is bad!!! But missing a nights sleep isn't any worse off for a Mage than it is for the Meat Shield. I mean fighter.
In conclusion, those are some of the basics to GURPS Magic and some of the reasons why it appeals to me. From a meta standpoint, the GURPS Magic system makes more sense than anything else I've seen.
Sure there are nay-sayers who are going to complain that GURPS is too hard (for you). And you're right. It's too difficult. GURPS has long been the purview of the erudite intellectual.
That said, when I wrote my comparison article on GURPS where I compared it to D&D 5E (Herein available: https://www.jongedge.com/rpg-articles/gurpsreview/ ) I noted that GURPS 4th Edition is actually simpler than D&D 5E . . . (Yes I know the Wordpress site is broken. Just click the "close" button at the bottom of the page to finish loaded. I'm working on a Cobalt Template format for the site and that should be up and running by the end of August 2022). In reality, the Magic rules for GURPS is a handful of pages and then has options for variety. The vast majority of GURPS Magic is the catalogue of 400+ unique spells.
My observations have also led me to believe that anyone too lazy to learn GURPS is also too lazy to actually learn D&D 5E.
However, GURPS Magic has over 400 spells! That alone is a steep learning curve. But it's one that I enjoyed climbing.
Thanks for the description! It warrants further investigation.
8) I am denounceable! My GURPS heresies shall ignite the heavens.
Seriously though, there is quite a bit worth keeping from GURPS. I don't give much import to industry drama, and to each their own there, but there is still utility to their published content and design paradigm. To lose that to drama is sad, y'know: Baby, bathwater, and all that. But I see a greater natural threat from apathy, entropy, and their true believers aging 'closed market'.
It would be sad to see them fade into the sunset regardless the last act. I think it has something to impart both in content and design legacy.
Quote from: Eirikrautha on July 18, 2022, 08:47:34 AM
Thanks for the description! It warrants further investigation.
Download GURPS Lite 3rd edition for a basic overview. It is free and as far as GURPS Magic goes it is the subsystem with the least amount of change in the conversion over to the 4e.
http://www.warehouse23.com/products/gurps-lite-third-edition