Quote from: Omega;919799Same here. In all the years of DMing I've never had anyone flip out because "this dungeon doesnt make any sense! aaaagh!!!" Sometimes the players will try to find out why theres a lone goblin in this necromancers lair full of undead. Others just shrug and move on.

OK, I've never had people flip out, but I've had players look at me and say, "Wait, what?  A goblin in a necromantic lair?  Really?"  And it bothers them, not enough to disturb the game, but often, after the adventure, when we talk about what was good and bad about the adventure, that sort of stuff WILL come up.

So, in that particular instance, I ran with it, and turned it into a running joke.  The Goblin was seen serving various evil wizards, and when the PC's came in to stop the evil plots, he was the first to run.  I think, it's been years, and it may have been a Kobold, but I made the little guy into a gal, and was actually quite an accomplished wizard's aide, with quite a bit of knowledge on the workings of certain magics, and could easily brew potions on her own.  So the PC Wizard hired her to manage her laboratory when they went on an adventure.

Since then though, I try to keep with a consistent theme to an underground lair/encounter/dungeon.

Quote from: rgrove0172;919002I'm sorry but why should such details, logic and sound story elements only be present in a book? We are creating our own work of fiction in an rpg. Why should we accept such a drop in quality?
Some of you make it sound very abstract, like encounters and plot elements in the game are just abstract challenges,  tactical puzzles and reasons to roll the dice instead of a practice in creativity.

RPGs are not about "creating a work of fiction". The two factors that matter in an RPG are making an effective virtual world, and making gameplay a fun and exciting experience.  These usually go hand-in-hand, but can sometimes require balancing one against the other.

Quote from: RPGPundit;920851RPGs are not about "creating a work of fiction". The two factors that matter in an RPG are making an effective virtual world, and making gameplay a fun and exciting experience.  These usually go hand-in-hand, but can sometimes require balancing one against the other.

This.  Fucking shitbunnies, this.

Well that certainly is one popular opinion.

Quote from: rgrove0172;920894Well that certainly is one popular opinion.

Keep in mind that for some DMs part of the fun of DMing is coming up with some reason why the wandering whatever is wandering around someplace it logically shouldnt be.

The trick here is that it just seems illogical for the goblin to be wandering the necromancers lair. If the players throw a hissy fit about it without even asking why. Then GOOD! Thats their own stupid hindering them. Grow some brain cells or fall into the next spiked pit trap.

As a player my reaction to something that is obviously out of place is not to whine "Man that makes no sense!". Instead I start wondering why this thing is here? How did it get here? How can we take advantage of it being here.

Like was suggested above. Could be the necromancers assistant. Or maybee its the lone survivour of a raiding party. Or was the pet of an adventurer. Or was summoned with one of the monster summoning spells, etc.

Prefer it t make sense, but then I can shoehorn almost anything into the "makes sense" camp.

Quote from: rgrove0172;920894Well that certainly is one popular opinion.

That's more in the realm of objective truth, but that doesn't prevent you from attempting this as a by-product.

Quote from: cranebump;920911Prefer it t make sense, but then I can shoehorn almost anything into the "makes sense" camp.

Given that humans are pattern-finding creatures - even when their isn't an actual pattern - players will happily do that work for you without realizing it.

Quote from: RPGPundit;920851RPGs are not about "creating a work of fiction".

My only caveat to this concept is that AFTER the session, the discussion by players about what happened, the retelling of the tale, etc is a creation of fiction. But the fiction comes POST-game, not PRE-game or DURING-game, but after all is said and done.

AKA, like writing a short story about a real-life football match. Doesn't make sense to declare it a story until after the buzzer sounds with the final score.

Quote from: Omega;920908Keep in mind that for some DMs part of the fun of DMing is coming up with some reason why the wandering whatever is wandering around someplace it logically shouldnt be.

Nah. I'd rather just ask my players. "Why do you think the umberhulk is here? Perhaps you could ask him."

And if they don't ask or he won't tell, then it just has to remain one of those mysteries of life. If the players keep arguing about it, "Your loud discussion may attract another wandering monster, you should roll for that now."

Quote from: rgrove0172;919033You don't have to be an ecologist to notice that the Undead wandering the halls don't seem to bother the Goblins that appear to be permanently encamped in the ruins of the old barracks or that the giant spiders infesting an entire section of the dungeon don't seem to be bother the orcs occupying several rooms.

Once you understand that the Dungeon itself is a malevolent living entity (aka the Mythic Underworld), and all these critters are Part of the Dungeon, then it all makes much more sense. For the Dungeon, having the Undead attack the Goblins would be like having its right arm attack its left arm.

Quote from: S'mon;921002Once you understand that the Dungeon itself is a malevolent living entity (aka the Mythic Underworld), and all these critters are Part of the Dungeon, then it all makes much more sense. For the Dungeon, having the Undead attack the Goblins would be like having its right arm attack its left arm.

Keep on the Borderland
All of the inhabitants are feuding with someone else in the complex. Especially the Hobgoblins and Bugbears.

Quote from: Omega;921032Keep on the Borderland
All of the inhabitants are feuding with someone else in the complex. Especially the Hobgoblins and Bugbears.

That'd be the Gygaxian Realism. Note that the caves are full of monsters who despite feuding have not killed each other off - no abandoned caves full of corpses.

Quote from: S'mon;921041That'd be the Gygaxian Realism. Note that the caves are full of monsters who despite feuding have not killed each other off - no abandoned caves full of corpses.

The PCs didnt arrive during a scirmish. Why would there be corpses all over?

Quote from: S'mon;921041That'd be the Gygaxian Realism. Note that the caves are full of monsters who despite feuding have not killed each other off - no abandoned caves full of corpses.

I tend to assume that both sides are just eating the corpses of the fallen, and new goblinoids arise from the feces of other goblinoids. It's not like any of the dungeon designers ever bother to provide for food sources or waste disposal, after all.