City of Heroes was the only MMO that I ever really enjoyed. Enough so that I considered going back when Going Rogue came out. I'm also somewhat interested in trying out Champions. I hear good things about it, but then I heard good thing about WoW. I swear that game actually tried to bore me to death. More map variety and stuff would be nice, though, yeah.

Something about CoH also seemed to encourage more actual role-playing. I ran into a lot more players who did characterful things... stuck to character themes and such.
A big part of that, I think, was the lack of competition for toys/gadgets/armor/weapons... you designed your character, your powers didn't depend on what codpiece you found in last night's dungeon (and swapped out the next day). There was never the bickering over who got what 'drop' so the sense of cooperation was less likely to break down... it was common to get on a 'team' and stick with it through a bunch of missions/instances, unlike WoW.
My WoW characters all went through stages where they looked ridiculous because their best armor/weapon had an ugly look to it.
So you were always being reminded of the initial concept... though you could always do a redesign or switch to an alternate costume it didn't effect your abilities.
I always enjoyed reading the backgrounds people had written for their characters.

I'm picturing a bunch of vampire PCs fighting over who gets the snazzy velvet jacket that dropped off the Toreador boss.

Quote from: winkingbishop;408467There's not a snowball's chance in hell I'd play this game, but I'm sort of curious how they are going to reconcile the massively in MMO and the supposed mystique of the creatures you're supposed to play in the World of Darkness.  How much fun could it possibly be to play your vampire running around in a digital city populated by half a million other vampires?  Instances? Mission-based game play?

I know nothing about this game except what I just read in this forum.  Guild Wars managed to tackle this with instanced play.  The cities you enter are MMO for people to trade, chat, and group up but everything outside the cities are instanced, even to the point where someone who wanted to play solo could grab NPCs.  

I suppose if they made designated Elysium areas and instanced play areas it would allow for a feeling that vamps and monsters were rare and make the player feel more important.

I probably won't ever play this game either, like others have said, MMOs do a great job of boring me.

I'm shocked it took so long. Unless I missed a change in the White Wolf news a few years back, White Wolf has belonged to CCP (the guys behind Eve Online) since...2003.   While the hinted at 'eve online RPG' never materialized (and with WW at the helm: Thank God for That!), the popularity of other game properties using Vampire: the Colon this is a long expected announcement.

Although I'm not as excited as many are (I prefer V:tR to V:tM), I understand the decision to use the old universe: The power scale is much, much larger. In VtR your only a few hundred XP away from being Prince, in VtM you will never ever be a Prince without diablerizing much more powerful vampires and you'll still have to worry about those antediluvians roaming around.

CCP can make a mean MMO, and I will definitely be keeping an eye on this game.

Oh, here's some notes on the 'Wanted' list from the Panel at The Grand Masquerade(From Just Achilli's Blog:

QuoteSo, with the Grand Masquerade at its conclusion and the debut of some news and an art-driven animatic, word is now out that the WoD MMO is going to be based on the Masquerade, built on three spheres of playstyle (cofeeshop, sandbox, and themepark), and highlight the ideals of Danger, Power, Romance, and Mystery. One of the panels at the Grand Masquerade offered players a chance to tell the devs what they wanted to see. I took notes like a diligent designer should, and here's the summary:

 

Not a lot of quests. Org versus org. Player-driven faction content and conflict.
Not a WOW clone. Repetitive quests are boring and unfulfilling.
Concerns over how mental or social influence powers are handled. How to do this well and meaningfully? Players uncomfortable with a loss of control over avatar.
Players want to control other characters, however.
Territory control. An adult-only play space. Roleplayers want a space where the integrity of the setting colors the conversation. Don't want to suffer through Chuck Norris jokes and other immersion-breaking chatter.
Content that reinforces themes that are the cornerstones of the WoD. "Shivers up the spine."
An exploration of who a new character is, so that he's not just dropped tabula rasa into the world. Random backgrounds, connections to the world, hooks into world participation.
Powers that cleave closely to the powers that exist in the game, but also expand into new directions for appropriate Disciplines. Making them work in tandem with the system, so that they make sense in the world.
Finite numbers of the supernatural critter types.
Permadeath. Server type preference?
Allow social powers to be socially versatile. A character can be successful socially; not all advancement is tied to combat or traditional "leveling."
Factional control of regions or assets. Benefits to controlling key areas or establishments.
Live team events built upon a foundation of existing world lore. Real-time events, historical Masquerade characters, GM NPCs who can be interacted with or pull players into stories.
Influences, boons,  hallmarks of the social origins of vampires.
Accessible to casual players. Low-intensity tasks to just pick up and do so players don't have to sit there idly.
Playable Sabbat.
Creation, building visible things that can be added to game. Ex. Toreador art, Nosferatu caverns. Some kind of crafting system.
One big world with a dynamic power system that allows different factions to thrive.
Stay true to the adult content. Blood, gore, darkness, tits.
Present the themes of the World of Darkness as playable elements. Let the players participate in the things that make Vampire what it is.
Allow players to participate meaningfully as casual and part-time players.
Image and customization consultation -- players helping other players create their looks.
Playable neonate-ancilla-elder model with meaningful play, all with impact on the in-world vitae economy.
Status system -- how to represent and elder concept. Players that can participate as setting, a piece of the environment.
Unique and empowering via rarity.
Rarity of combat unless it's a character's focus.
Severity and fearsomeness of combat.
World that responds to the actions of the characters. Dynamic, changing, adapting to how players use the world.
A system to allow players to form groups of their own design as opposed to just sharing commonalities like clan and Disciplines.
GLBT friendly content.
Rewards for advancement tied to tiered mastery of ability or chance rolls.
Final Death.
Bloodline characters. Seeing the effects of actions the players have taken in character selection.
Use relationships with fan organizations to allow players to play their LARP characters and vice versa.
Crafting +1 but not materials farming.
Immersion as a priority. Reward the long-time player who's been into Vampire as opposed to the sillier players who are aggravating elements in other MMOs. Jumping goofball players break the mood.
Non-unique names as a matter of character identity.
Other WoD critters. The whole panoply of supernatural creature types.
Cherry pick the strong parts of Requiem.
Mortals, participate in the Embrace, etc. X2 X3
Embrace. X2
Diablerie.
Ability to flag self for PvP allowability.
Communication needs. Make communication happen in a way that's not as as intrusive as "global chat UI".
Politics outside clan and sect. City politics, for example. Domains and territories?
A sense of history imparted to elder characters. Flashback sequences, historical instances, etc.
Narrative that's not wholly reliant on players to facilitate the content.
Control the rate of character progression and provide content so that casual and time-constrained players can still participate meaningfully.
Personal spaces like havens. Ability to damage or conspire against havens. Or help cultivate them.
Torpor as a clone-type mechanic as a backup.
Casual player rewards and impetus.
 

It was a pretty exciting panel to be on, especially given that the goals of the players represented here are very much in accordance with the things we've been designing and iterating. But what about you? What do you think?

I am mildly surprised by the oWoD option, and I cannot help but suspect that it may herald at a return to the oWoD in tabletop form as well.

Much as I love the nWoD, I must recognize that the oWoD appeals to a wider crowd. Also, IMHO the nWoD release schedule was horribly mismanaged by WW. It's still a shame, though.

Quote from: Benoist;408476OK. Which ones?

AFAIK, Mage, Vampire and Exalted books are forthcoming and in development. Probably there will be more miniseries a la Scion, Promethean or Changeling.

And frankly, if keeping the enormous quality of all their recent books means getting less books out per year, I am totally behind that.

The last WoD book I purchased was Geist, so I'm a bit out of the loop.

There's no game after Geist, right?

Quote from: The Butcher;408564I am mildly surprised by the oWoD option, and I cannot help but suspect that it may herald at a return to the oWoD in tabletop form as well.

According to the recent statements by the WW staff, all the oWoD material will eventually become available through PDF/POD, but so will all the nWoD products as well. However, they don't intend to support the old setting with new books beyond that, only to release manuals for converting it into the current system.

Also, it's worth noting that the feature list quoted by KrakaJak is what the audience at the Grand Masquerade wished to see in the game. Very little has actually been confirmed about the content. (But considering the company behind it, the end result may well resemble EVE rather than WoW.)

Quote from: GrimGent;408590(But considering the company behind it, the end result may well resemble EVE rather than WoW.)

And that would be good. Althougt I think I never play a WoD game in my whole life (I'm a dungeon vermin), the suggestions of the list seem very fine advancements to the world of MMORPGs.

The Want list very much is an 'I want it all' sort of critter.

Mind control that doesn't jack your avatar... but lets you jack other people's avatars?

Yeah, right.

Permadeath? Even Eve, which is still one of the most brutal MMOs I've played (seeing that any other player can decide, for any reason at all, to 'kill you', and inflict massive damage (mostly wallet based... you lose your gear... all of it... every time)... doesn't even try that.   Perma-death means no continuity, which means very few people will keep playing month after month (seeing as there is no point if every time you get jacked up you have to start over)... which is seriously unsustainable.  At least Achilli was smart enough to realize that might be possible only on limited servers.

Also I can see that the 'coffeehouse' players are demanding that they be able to latte their way up to ultimate power... which is pretty funny when you think about it...

Quote from: GrimGent;408590However, they don't intend to support the old setting with new books beyond that, only to release manuals for converting it into the current system.

That's all I want, though. Did they say when that's coming out?

Seanchai

Quote from: Spike;408610The Want list very much is an 'I want it all' sort of critter.

Mind control that doesn't jack your avatar... but lets you jack other people's avatars?

Yeah, right.

Permadeath? Even Eve, which is still one of the most brutal MMOs I've played (seeing that any other player can decide, for any reason at all, to 'kill you', and inflict massive damage (mostly wallet based... you lose your gear... all of it... every time)... doesn't even try that.   Perma-death means no continuity, which means very few people will keep playing month after month (seeing as there is no point if every time you get jacked up you have to start over)... which is seriously unsustainable.  At least Achilli was smart enough to realize that might be possible only on limited servers.

Also I can see that the 'coffeehouse' players are demanding that they be able to latte their way up to ultimate power... which is pretty funny when you think about it...

But with Vampires. It might be a bit different. After all dead isn;t really dead most of the time so having a level of dead that is down below dead but is permanent - Diablerie? - might make permadeath doable in this environment.

You also have the fact that startig characters could be of varying power depending on who their sires are. So a Gen13 Vamp might be the norm but maybe if you permadeath lost a character you get Gen12 etc ...

But I agree the wish list does not seem to fit the current sucessful MMO model. No death, no risk of loosing stuff, nothing can affect your PC unless you want it to, no PCs in plot determining positions, no changing of the environment... etc

Well, EVE Online is just one MMO that punishes the player for death (I've heard about level loss to being 'killed', and thats not counting the PvP aspects... just during questing you can get jacked up enough to lose levels in some games).

While Vampires are 'tough' enough to make permadeath a less likely outcome to being beaten in a fight (at least mythologically... being staked and 'left for dead', etc...), but against fellow players, if said players are ASKING to make permadeath possible? Not going to happen.  I garauntee the permadeath crowd are thinking they'll be doing the killing not being the killed!  

And really: Vampire, at least as presented by White Wolf, is almost impossible to imagine without a strong, even overwhelming PvP aspect.  Not necessarily violent PvP (and again: this is where CCP is a good match for the MMO, as their entry into the MMO market was rather innovative in this area, where most of the game content is generated by other players in competition with one another), but that would definitely be an aspect.