For me, "I didn't feel like it" is just about the worst possible excuse you could give short of not giving an excuse at all and just not showing up.

My players understand that playing in my campaign is a commitment. Lots of reasons for not coming are excused, this one would not be.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;386621Lots of reasons for not coming are excused, this one would not be.

RPGPundit

You think the outcome would be better if the player showed up anyway and ended up sitting there like a dead weight during the whole game?

Quote from: Benoist;386650You think the outcome would be better if the player showed up anyway and ended up sitting there like a dead weight during the whole game?

You're ignoring the third option, which is that the player gets over not feeling like it, and contributes regardless.

I don't want to sound harsh, but "not feeling like it" is usually an emotional state which dissipates after about five minutes of activity. If ever I'm not feeling like it at the beginning of a session I'm usually raring to go once things get properly started and the dice are rolling.

Quote from: noisms;386669You're ignoring the third option, which is that the player gets over not feeling like it, and contributes regardless.

I think that's likely, too. However, I'm not a therapist. If someone doesn't want to come, I'm not going to try and talk them into coming, knowing they'll feel better in a bit.

Seanchai

Quote from: noisms;386669I don't want to sound harsh, but "not feeling like it" is usually an emotional state which dissipates after about five minutes of activity.

Sure. OR it may be a warning sign for much deeper trouble. OR anything in between. I've been counselling people who were victims of abuse. It really depends on the situation, tone, context, cues you're picking up.

If I believe the player may just get over it by coming over, eating some cheetos and rolling the fucking dice, I'll sure insist a bit. But at the same time, it's not my job to just keep poking people who don't really want to come have a good time in the first place. If people really don't feel like it, I respect that. I don't really know why it is such a big deal, actually, in and of itself.

Is it really fair to require such a level of investment on the players' part?

Quote from: Benoist;386680Sure. OR it may be a warning sign for much deeper trouble. OR anything in between. I've been counselling people who were victims of abuse. It really depends on the situation, tone, context, cues you're picking up.

If I believe the player may just get over it by coming over, eating some cheetos and rolling the fucking dice, I'll sure insist a bit. But at the same time, it's not my job to just keep poking people who don't really want to come have a good time in the first place. If people really don't feel like it, I respect that. I don't really know why it is such a big deal, actually, in and of itself.

Is it really fair to require such a level of investment on the players' part?

I'm not saying I wouldn't respect somebody saying they didn't feel like it if I sense there was some deeper issue. It's not as if you can insist they show up, anyway.

The excuse itself just bothers me, though. As we've discussed in the thread it might be a cultural thing, but saying "I don't feel like it" is, to me, a bit like saying "Your game just isn't very interesting or important to me". This may be true but it's rude to say so. Personally, if I really didn't feel like it due to some personal issue, I would rather make up some sort of "dog at my homework" excuse rather than risk hurting the DM's feelings by flatly saying I didn't feel like it.

Quote from: noisms;386683The excuse itself just bothers me, though. As we've discussed in the thread it might be a cultural thing, but saying "I don't feel like it" is, to me, a bit like saying "Your game just isn't very interesting or important to me". This may be true but it's rude to say so. Personally, if I really didn't feel like it due to some personal issue, I would rather make up some sort of "dog at my homework" excuse rather than risk hurting the DM's feelings by flatly saying I didn't feel like it.

Personalities and cultural makeups have everything to do with it. I agree.

I'm a Frenchman, and a rather plain, direct kind of guy in person. I like to talk, say what I mean, mean what I say. To me, making a "dog at my homework" excuse is actually a sign you are not trusting me, as a friend, to understand where you're coming from and not make a big deal out of whatever you think about the game, or issue you have on the side, etc. You got to trust me and tell me what's going on. From there, I can react properly. Just masquerading things to not hurt my feelings is kind of insulting to me.

Your equivalence is interesting here: Saying "I don't feel like it" is, to me, a bit like saying "Your game just isn't very interesting or important to me".

Maybe expecting all the people that sit at your game table to actually like what you're doing is setting yourself up for disappointment? I mean. Isn't it too high an expectation to begin with? Aren't you too hard on yourself (and thus, later on, on the players pointing out they don't feel like playing your game) from the start?

Quote from: RPGPundit;386621For me, "I didn't feel like it" is just about the worst possible excuse you could give short of not giving an excuse at all and just not showing up.

Agreed. Among my associates, "I didn't feel like it" is an excuse that ceased to be acceptable for dodging any obligation once they all became tax- and bill-paying adults with jobs and responsibilities. Since they're all in their 40s, I neither want nor need to hear this one. "I had a crap day at work and felt like dying" is fine; I can empathize with migraine, fatigue, etc. Even so, call in advance. There's no reason in 2010 – when everybody I know has a land line, one or more mobile devices, and broadband Internet, and could call, SMS, e-mail, IM, Skype, etc. – not to take 30 seconds to say, "Yeah, this day is shite. I'm going home to cry."

Quote from: RPGPundit;386621My players understand that playing in my campaign is a commitment.

Yes again. It's a social obligation. It shouldn't matter whether we're having dinner, going to the pub, taking a day trip somewhere, or playing RPGs . . . pencil it in, and once it's pencilled in, treat it like any other obligation. This means telling friends who offer other activities afterward, "Sorry, I have something pencilled in on that day." It definitely means calling if you can't make it. Treating gaming as a second-class obligation doesn't say anything good about a person's values; the activity might be frivolous, but the obligation is not. As the GM, I've made preparations, set aside time in my schedule, and made space in my home, just as I might for a dinner or a cocktail party.

Why is an excuse even necessary? All I need to hear from my players is "I can't make it to the next session, sorry." I don't really need a reason why. If it's a repeat occurrence I may ask "Is everything okay?" but I don't demand an answer.

Quote from: Pete;386722Why is an excuse even necessary?

In some places and contexts, it's considered polite. If someone tells you, "I spent three hours getting this meal ready, set aside my entire Saturday evening for the dinner party, and tidied up for guests," then you owe them at least that much detail in return if you can't show and therefore stand them up – it's tit for tat. The situation is in no way different when that person says, "I spent three hours prepping for our game, set aside my entire Saturday evening for the session, and tidied up for guests." If your games aren't at least that formal and organized, then perhaps no excuse is necessary. However, my games are that formal and organized . . .

I can see that, but IMO I think this is where a host just has to trust his guests. If they can't make a social function, then I just assume they have a good reason for it. I mean, at the end of the day, the game's going to miss a player, it doesn't really matter to me if it's because the they're too hungover or if their grandma died...well I'd show concern for the latter at least...

That really matters if you game with friends, or just fellow gamers.
I generally don't hang with any of the people I game with, except every other Sunday for game day.

Me and one of the players grab dinner after the game, and I ocassionally hook up with them for MMO stuff (i.e. "Let's try out Star Trek Online! ...ok, I'm done."), but married with 2 kids means I'm usually too busy otherwise.

Quote from: Novastar;386788That really matters if you game with friends, or just fellow gamers.

True. I game exclusively with friends I do hang with. We're 40-somethings who witness each others' contracts, help each other solve household/job/tax problems, share wine-tasting tips, housesit, invite each other to dinner/cocktail parties, etc. My wife of 20 years is in the group, and she fills in as the nanny to another gamer's daughter. I haven't done pickup gaming with strangers, or with people I see only for gaming, since c. 1989. Shoot, I've been gaming with one of these guys since 1979. These are all people I know well enough to ask, "How's the Lasik healing?", or, "Did you get that $5,000 refund?" – and they're the same with me – so I think nothing of expecting to hear the real reasons for an absence rather than a vague deflection.

Any games I run from here on are going to be casual, drop in and out, episodic type games anyway, so I wouldn't really care.

But I understand that other people feel differently, and that's cool. What's best for one game group isn't necessarily best for all.