Hello everyone,
I've been looking around at virtual tabletop systems to run an online adventure for some friends of mine. Some of them have played tabletop rpgs before and others have only played mmorpgs. I'm looking for a virtual tabletop system to run games from. I will probably also be using a voice chat client in tandem.
I've read up on every one that I can find, but the real test is how will they perform once I set them up so I'm hoping for that some of you can share experiences with them.
Features I'm looking for:
Needs to be system generic -- I noticed a few which were basically designed for d20 adventures. I like to mix things up and will often want to play games that aren't d20.
Faster, fluid use is a plus. Don't mind prep work beforehand but I don't want the equivalent of 'walking down a section of hallway' to take 10 minutes to portray.
More than just fantasy setting -- needs to be applicable to sci-fi, modern, certainly victorian/'20s/edwardian (these three eras tend to pop up in many of my games). Not adverse to providing artwork for the system to use, but don't want to be stuck with a 'medieval fantasy' paradigm.
The use of alternative game components (would really love to be able to use the card systems from Falkenstein or Lace and Steel).
Any advice would be appreciated. I've never done this before and am a bit at sea. Also, tried searching for a topic like this but couldn't find one (probably didn't use the right keywords). If this has been discussed to death already, I'm sorry.
I'm not an expert but I do like Gametable (http://gametable.sourceforge.net/Gametable/Home.html). It's really simple, clean, intuitive and totally system and genre agnostic.
You can use it as is or add upload your own background or even make your own counters ("pogs"). For the latter, check out http://www.rptools.net/index.php?page=downloads#TokenTool ).
IBL,
I'm not an expert either. I did some pretty thorough research a few months ago when I thought I was going to run a game online. It turns out I never had to take the dive because I found a local group and I got my old group to commit to a somewhat chaotic gaming-by-commute schedule.
But I digress.
Soylent Green recommend the two virtual table sites (http://gametable.sourceforge.net/Gametable/Home.html & http://www.rptools.net/) I would have recommended as well. I managed to get both of them to work and connect with two of my buddies during a test. These suggestions apply to both programs:
If you have more than one option, use the most powerful (RAM-wise) computer with the most reliable (i.e. an actual cable to the modem if possible) net connection when hosting the game. You'll need a separate program for voice support. This could be cumbersome for older computers and laptops. Both communities have nice little libraries of extra maps and pogs/tokens, but I wouldn't download all that shit until you're comfortable with the interface because it can be overwhelming.
**Even if you don't use RPTool's gametable (MapTool), you most definitely should download their TokenTool program to create your own pogs/tokens. It is ridiculously easy to use.
**Both programs have client-side map/dungeon drawing options. In most cases it is both easier and more attractive to import an image of a map instead. Now that it exists and I am wiser, I must tell you about and praise Dungeonographer (http://www.dungeonographer.com/). You could build a map using this software, export the PNG into your gametable, slap a grid on it, and you're gaming. In my opinion, this is smarter than combing the web for that map that "sort of works" or using the on-board editing tools. Oh, and Dungeonographer's creator (SowelBlack (http://www.therpgsite.com/member.php?u=4157)) posts at this forum, so support is one click away.
As to the two gametables specifically:
Gametable (http://gametable.sourceforge.net/Gametable/Home.html) - is apparently under new management, a new version or using a new domain name since the last time I tried it, so my opinion may be outdated; I considered this one leaner and more "low-budget" of the two, but not in a bad way - Specifically, it ran faster, but lacked the bells and whistles of Maptool. You can build a dungeon on it, but the "reveal" options were limited to a "fog of war" option where you just select a bit of the map and it gets revealed to your players. Like I said, lean and mean, but not broken or buggy. The shitty part, at the time I was shopping around, was no forum or community that I could find. It would appear that the link Soylent gave points to new management and a new forum, so maybe there is potential for growth there.
MapTool (http://www.rptools.net/index.php?page=maptool) - Is rich with content and busting with a community and supporting downloads (aforementioned TokenTool, a dice roller, initiative tracker, and some sorta character sheet manager I've never used). Like I implied above, it started to bog down the resources on my laptop but I'm guessing it works just fine on a real computer based on how strong the community is. There are whole libraries of tokens, maps and dice-rolling scripts available on their forum. You don't have to go nuts with MapTool, but you can...adding Fog of War and line of sight rules. It comes front-loaded with some generic d20 rules. I actually have some screenshots of my early tests with it on this site here (page 1, post 7): http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=16729&highlight=maptool
Any way you go, let us know what you ultimately decide on. Again, I would strongly recommend something like Dungeonographer over fumbling with downloading a bunch of dungeon tile libraries. I don't know the science/rationale behind it, but it apparently eats up more system resources to use a lot of little images on your virtual tabletop than it does one good-sized one. That much I have learned from my VT journey.
Thanks for this. i had not seen game table yet. I'm going to give it a spin.
As they are free, no reason not to take them for a spin.
In the evnet we just played one game using Gametable and skype - as the friend we were doing this for's secondment abroad turn out to be a lot shorter than previously announced. However I do have the urge to use Gametable in aface to face game at some stage. I don't tend to use miniatures when I run games,but I think something rather cool could be done with this tool.
That said, a good few years ago I did run a weekly online Gamma World game on now defunct Webrpg. And what I learned from that is:
1. Everything online takes twice as long and is three times more confusing for the players.
2. Dead air is murder. Any time the players are left hanging which the GM works out the mechanics of things hangs heavy and feels like it lasts forever.
We use BASH, and we've been doing it via WEBx, which is okay. We experience very little dead air. Lighter systems seem better to me in this regard, because there isn't a lot of rules-figuring going down.
The worst issues we've dealt with so far are technical things. We've had two sessions with 20- 30 minute log on lag because of user error. Each time it was different guy, and each time they made the same mistake. There is an on off switch on a lot headphone/mic cables; these guys had their mics turned off. The second time the guy insisted (via text chat) that it must be something on my end (I was the host). Oh, the comedy.
Now that you mention it technical errors Aos, you reminded me of something I should warn IBL about when he tries to host games. I'm sure it's fairly obvious to a lot computer-savvy folks, but I didn't realize I had to shut down two layers of firewall/security before I could host games: the one from Windows and the hard one in my actual modem. I forget which tabletop gave me the headache, but I'm 90 percent sure it was MapTool. A combination of the guys on the forum and their tutorials got me straightened out.
Oh, and I'm sure there is a wiser way to host a game than to leave yourself virtually naked, but I never needed to/got that far.
A lot of HackMaster Basic folk are really into Maptools.
http://www.kenzerco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43756&highlight=maptools
A GM over on our boards has been spearheading the movement to develop HM frameworks for it for quite some time.
I've never used it but it looks very flexible.
IBL,
VASSAL is great for this sort of thing:
http://www.vassalengine.org/
It is Java based, so it runs on most OS's
It is server based, so firewalls won't jack it up
It has many modules, many of which would be great for different games:
http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Tiles_and_Figs
http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Zombies!!!
http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Piecepack
It includes text chat, randomizer, maps, figs, LOS tool and saved games.
Thanks for all the suggestions and tips, everyone. I'll start checking these systems out and see what they have to offer. If anyone things of anything more please post. I've a feeling this is going to be an on-going process.:)
I use Fantasy Grounds (http://www.fantasygrounds.com) it is the most polished of the bunch. Simple and easy to use with lots of rulesets to choose from.
Frustrating Gametable is Frsutrating.
We played our normal web x session tonight and at the end we tried to run Gametable just to see if we could get it to work. One guy on an older PC didn't have enough memory. I set up as the host and the other guy, also on a PC, couldn't connect. Both were running XP.
Quote from: Aos;408034Frustrating Gametable is Frsutrating.
We played our normal web x session tonight and at the end we tried to run Gametable just to see if we could get it to work. One guy on an older PC didn't have enough memory. I set up as the host and the other guy, also on a PC, couldn't connect. Both were running XP.
Sending you a potentially helpful link via PM,
Any virtual tabletop type software that requires one of the users to host the game off host machine is going to have the same technical set-up issues. YOu got to know how to get your IP address and safely get round your firewall and router. Good times for everyone.
For online gaming to take off beyond the realm of the truly dedicated you'd need something people could just connect to via their browser.
I have had the same experience as Aos. I paid to get FG2 and I don't really feel I got my monies worth.
the worst part is, all the tools are there to make it really cool. But the whole thing is touch and seems like it collapses if used too much.
When it does work though, it is awesome squared.
I haven't tried it but Scenegrinder (http://www.scenegrinder.com) looks like a cross between PbP and a VTT.
From what I gather you prepare a scene in much the same way as in a VTT with nice looking maps and tokens, but since the game is hosted on a server it stays live at all times. When you log on to the site (with a normal browser) you make your moves but won't see the results until the GM oks them.
If everyone agrees to go online at the same time, it probably plays much like a VTT.
There are on-line dice rollers, Line of Sight, fog of war and the usual bells and whistles. The people behind it have made some sort of deal with ICE, so a lot of their content will be available.
with all these programs around, I do hope they eventually amalgamate, that way you have one program which covers:
mapping
dice rolling
character and monster databases
GM notes and player handouts
chat and a master narrative (akin to Google Docs collaborative word documents)
MapTools by RPTools (http://rptools.net/) is really the way to go for me. We tried Gametable and it worked fine if you didn't load a crap ton of tokens into it. Once we loaded into it, it chugged and died all the time. We moved onto MapTools and have never looked back.
Question for Maptools users - how can you (or can you) scale tokens to be larger than one square on the map (for large creatures for example) and can you create a token that is elongated(to represent a dragon, for example). I've got the token tool as well (making my own in fact) in case that helps.
Quote from: Lawbag;408281with all these programs around, I do hope they eventually amalgamate, that way you have one program which covers:
mapping
dice rolling
character and monster databases
GM notes and player handouts
chat and a master narrative (akin to Google Docs collaborative word documents)
MapTool can do all that already bar the master narrative. You can do notes and handouts via extra "map" screens. The only problem is that for databases of course you need to key in the info yourself...