Villains & Vigilantes was the first super-hero RPG I ever played, and loved it...  And now Jeff Dee and Jack Herman have launched a Kickstarter for a third edition of the game.  But now I have BASH! Ultimate Edition, ICONS Assembled Edition, and Mutants & Masterminds Third Edition.  Somebody please stop me from backing yet another Kickstarter.

Hrm, that $256 add-on for an 8.5" by 11" custom color portrait of a character by Jeff Dee is tempting...

Damnit I'll have to pledge that one.  I hope it's good.  I'd be more likely to pledge if they put up a free pdf and it was good.

Yeah, I rolled a natural one on my saving throw, so I'm in.  Nostalgia is a powerful drug.

You know, I never pledged a cent to their legal defense fund.  I haven't looked at or run V&V in years, but I have been secretly wanting this while secretly fearing it'll suck.  I wonder if hit points are still a multiple of body mass.

Quote from: Celestial;914527Somebody please stop me from backing yet another Kickstarter.

Just wait until the book is released.  It looks like a pretty sure thing the Kickstarter will reach it's target, and it's nothing more than a glorified pre-order anyway.  Wait until the book actually exists.

Edit: missed post #3

Nope. that system has been simplified, along with carrying capacity. No more arcane formulae

V&V was the first (I think?) but like most superhero RPGs, it didn't come even remotely close to emulating contemporary superhero comic books.  It was a bad AD&D heartbreaker.  I doubt even simplifying the Carrying Capacity formula can save that game.

Quote from: daniel_ream;914959V&V was the first (I think?) but like most superhero RPGs, it didn't come even remotely close to emulating contemporary superhero comic books.  It was a bad AD&D heartbreaker.  I doubt even simplifying the Carrying Capacity formula can save that game.

You say this about most superhero rpgs.  What are your exceptions, or are there any?

Quote from: daniel_ream;914959V&V was the first (I think?) but like most superhero RPGs, it didn't come even remotely close to emulating contemporary superhero comic books.  It was a bad AD&D heartbreaker.  I doubt even simplifying the Carrying Capacity formula can save that game.

You really don't even know what the new game is going to be like. I do. It's a complete makeover to bring it in line with modern RPG design principles. While you can still create your character randomly, there is a point system underlying the game. You can go back and tweak things to balance out the characters OR you can just use the point system to create your characters. Combat is streamlined (no more matrix), armor affects damage, not to hit. It really is a new game system.

You're not going to like the answer, but Capes, World vs. Hero, Truth & Justice, Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, and HeroQuest 2E all come closer than The Usual Suspects.

Yes, that's because they're all storygames.  Certain genres cannot be done effectively with simulationist game engines, or games which internalize certain D&D assumptions because the world as presented in those genres is not consistent, does not obey rigorous rules, or does not cleave to those D&D assumptions.

(To anticipate your next question: there are absolutely genres that I think can be emulated just fine with a simulationist kind of system.  1960's TV Westerns, daytime soap operas, and most police/legal procerdurals.  You do still have to reject a lot of D&D assumptions though).

Quote from: Allensh;914985You really don't even know what the new game is going to be like. I do. It's a complete makeover to bring it in line with modern RPG design principles. While you can still create your character randomly, there is a point system underlying the game. You can go back and tweak things to balance out the characters OR you can just use the point system to create your characters. Combat is streamlined (no more matrix), armor affects damage, not to hit. It really is a new game system.

Everything you've just described indicates that it's not going to be any better at emulating superhero comics than it used to be, since most trad superhero RPGs have made those exact same mistakes already.

Personally, I think that Mutants and Masterminds 3e (while not perfect) comes the closes to emulating Superheroic adventures myself.  And I collect Supers games as a hobby within the hobby.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;914995Personally, I think that Mutants and Masterminds 3e (while not perfect) comes the closes to emulating Superheroic adventures myself.  And I collect Supers games as a hobby within the hobby.

I've been given the impression that M&M is THE superhero system of the day; as in actually played more than any other.

Yeah, Mutants & Masterminds seems to be the most played super-hero RPG, with ICONS the second most.

I don't know, I've had tons of fun with V&V over the years. Comic book tropes and narrative principles are actually a lot more variable than people give them credit for. In V&V characters are VERY HARD to accidentally kill (though this is easily house ruled), and that is a key enough facet of genre emulation that everything else works out well enough for me.