What do you think? Metagame resource wired into the D&D base rules? Apparently this is a done deal, we're going to see it.

It makes me angry, but I'm old and tired. From the psychological point of view this is arguably a way bigger change than say the switches to the way they do magic, or 'quests', which in the end you can take or leave. You can't just take or leave metagame mechanics, though: they put a big stamp on play.

Quote from: CalithenaWhat do you think? Metagame resource wired into the D&D base rules? Apparently this is a done deal, we're going to see it.

It makes me angry, but I'm old and tired. From the psychological point of view this is arguably a way bigger change than say the switches to the way they do magic, or 'quests', which in the end you can take or leave. You can't just take or leave metagame mechanics, though: they put a big stamp on play.

Depends on how their used, I loved Karma in MSH (and that's old school too), so its not some "new wonder" thing--it's just new to D&D, and frankly sounds like win to me.

If you think its metagame then MOST of the mechanical stuff in D&D is metagame. Class, levels, feats, bonuses to hit. All metagame stuff. Yep. Metagame. They're the stuff that exists outside the "internal" game environment/setting.

I love it!

I'm not too keen on the new race and the unique progression table, though.

I prefer action/hero points that allow rerolls rather than adding to your roll result, but I don't know which of the two D&D is going with.

I've been implementing action points into my games since the first time I experimented with them.  Finding the balance is tough, but I think I've managed to do so.

My players enjoy the hell out of them, and I like it when they use them.  It's a win-win situation.

-O

Quote from: PseudoephedrineI prefer action/hero points that allow rerolls rather than adding to your roll result, but I don't know which of the two D&D is going with.

My favourite is the Green Ronin variant (M&M, True20) which allows a reroll, taking any single figure result as 10 + that figure. So a 4 becomes a 14, whilst a 'natural' 14 remains unmodified.  

I would be quite happy to see something like that appear in 4E.

"I'll be having fun playing something else."

I've never had fun with action points but I'd like to give it a try.

Quote from: Melan"I'll be having fun playing something else."

seconded

Quote from: Melan"I'll be having fun playing something else."

Right, but you'd have been doing that anyway, so it's really no big loss.

-O

I spoke with Bill, from Hinterwelt, for a long time after a game day (too many days ago) and this subject came up - with respect to his inclusion of something like them in Iridium Lite. He really helped me work through what would work for me and what wouldn't.

For me, it's OK to have something like this as long as it is represented in some in-game way.  That is, if it's something like Karma that's an attribute and exists in an in-game way, it makes sense to me. When it exists as something the player invokes, it starts to fall apart for me.

I don't know enough about how it's going to be implemented in 4e to know. IIRC, it's not the first implementation - doesn't the Eberron campaign have something like this? I know you can get a character sheet that includes a space for Action Points.

How is it not in game if the player invokes it?

Quote from: AosHow is it not in game if the player invokes it?

That's the stickler, I think that's why with H&S, I ditched any idea of hero points and put the mechanic /directly/ into the characters--that is they can reroll, if they choose to give a superheroic monologue/peptalk to themselves. This fits the genre, and the players aren't as much jumping out of their character to do this.

I've seriously been considering a game where there are three axioms of dice to roll: Skill, Fortune, and Will (or maybe stubbornness), similar to the FRPG axiom I have now for High Valor (Will, Faith, and Valor)--the idea is that player characters  (can sometimes) recognize when they're skilled at something, when they need luck, and when they just have to keep at it through stubbornness to get through. I'm not sure how this would work yet, but the idea is the character is concentrating/focusing on a task, and drawing on their inner resources to succeed. That is as an IN "the pc's head" action. (After all, no sense IMHO in rolling when success is likely given time, UNLESS the situation is frantic/frenetic, and tough.)

To give you an example of how I mean, I've been playing Fear. I'm far better with most of the slow weapons in FEAR (its an FPS), A shot to the head, kills pretty quick most enemies (some are armored too well like the hardsuits), but I know when I approach a room, what resources I have--how many shots, how much skill/success with a given weapon in various situations--now the main concern is being able to assess the situation for me.

I know that's not "real life" or anything, but its along similar lines--safe enough for fiction, to give the character something, the player can USE, but makes sense within the context of "this is me!"

Does that make sense?

Quote from: obrynRight, but you'd have been doing that anyway, so it's really no big loss.

-O

Correct - until a lot of people start thinking my way.

Quote from: SilverlionDepends on how their used...

That'd be my thought as well...

Seanchai