Quote from: GameDaddy;11208271. People have been already working on the Census here since the middle of last year.
2. Good question. Remember I am in Indiana original home of both the Ku Klux Klan, as well as the FBI. Not much has changed here in a hundred years, however people will let you believe what you want, so getting accurate data can be challenging. A good baseline would be the Midwest data I suppose, however there are fewer latinos in rural Indiana, I'd personally estimate 6-7% of the total population here.
3.  https://www.governing.com/gov-data/census/state-minority-population-data-estimates.html    is one of the sites I gleaned some data from, also Wikipedia.. also, a couple other places...
     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race

Right....both sources are 2017, and both list Hispanic/Latino.

Well, apart from whatever weird conspiracy thing is going on with vampire sex cults, my only beef with Evil Hat here is that they took this property, took a bunch of money from a kickstarter to make rules for it, and THEN tried to act like they had some kind of moral high-ground here, with the money already in their bank accounts.  If they were truly so appalled by this man as to be having to print disclaimers about him, they shouldn't have taken the money and shouldn't have made the book, full stop.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1120828here is the public document on the Camarilla secret societies. What do you suppose would be sensitive enough to be private
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HST91zpiHnfuXGKc_lgxpzOzPHMdEpyHz5fsrB5UzgQ/edit

Um . . . you do know how the Camarilla works, right? And did you even bother to read the document?(no, of course not) It's not a list of secret societies that the players can join, but rather a list of in-game secret societies that you can have your character join if you have the VIP points to spend on it - a measure to ensure that you've been a player in good standing for at least a certain amount of time before giving your character access to more off-the-wall things. Not a perfect system, sure, but all it is meant to do is ensure that introducing certain elements to the game is handled in a non-disruptive manner by players who have proven themselves non-disruptive in general.

Quote from: Valatar;1120867If they were truly so appalled by this man as to be having to print disclaimers about him, they shouldn't have taken the money and shouldn't have made the book, full stop.

So, if Lovecraft is all racist... and Evil Hat is completely transparent about that... is Fate of Cthulhu the most openly racist Lovecraft game?

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1120873Um . . . you do know how the Camarilla works, right? And did you even bother to read the document?(no, of course not)...

Yes, and ...yes, ...did you?

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1120865It just occurred to me that Fate of Cthulhu isn't the first time Evil Hat has shown such hypocrisy by capitalizing on "problematic" IP. I'm talking of course of the "we think Lovecraft was a right evil bastard but we're so very happy to make a game based on his mythos and sell it" thing. The first time was with none other than the Dresden Files. I remember discussions some time ago about how both Jim Butcher and Harry Dresden are soooo very "problematic" (aka Not Woke) but the Evil Hat crew pressed ahead anyway. This on the grounds that Butcher is a personal friend of the Hat and it's a coveted property and goddamn does Evil Hat need the cash.

You mean like when Jim kinda sorta vouched for Larry Correia?

The only reason Jim remains swimming in this pool of sharks is because he doesn't make his opinions public.

Quote from: Valatar;1120867my only beef with Evil Hat here is that they took this property, took a bunch of money from a kickstarter to make rules for it, and THEN tried to act like they had some kind of moral high-ground here, with the money already in their bank accounts.  If they were truly so appalled by this man as to be having to print disclaimers about him, they shouldn't have taken the money and shouldn't have made the book, full stop.

At the very least #EvilHat should have made the disclaimer on the #Kickstarter itself while they were collecting money.

I wonder why they didn't.

Hmmm. Interesting. I honestly don't know why people are having such a hard time with Fred Hicks. I remember 2003 when he asked me to write FUDGE adventures and games for his fledgling game company, and I declined, but not because of anything personal, I was just too busy working on my own d20/open gaming stuff to care, and wasn't entirely confident the OGL would hold up under scrutiny. You know he likes Lovecraft and wrote several Cthulu games, and everyone is all up in arms what a fascist he is, because of how he puts together his gaming supplements.  Any misogyny is only relevant if you make it relevant. For example, I have just never personally seen the appeal of Cthulu games, like, ...at all.  So it's completely a non-issue what he writes, because I have like zero interest in Lovecraftian horror games. It is just not a Genre I would plunk down cash for.

I also remember the controversy with Larry Correia and Origins, where back in 2017 he was uninvited as the literary guest of honor that year, mostly because he is simply toxic, and obnoxious, not because he is a bad writer. I see now he was also uninvited to WorldCon in 2018 as well now, mostly for the same reasons. I will say that I wasn't pleased that because of his decision to uninvite Larry, GAMA asked him to step down as CEO for Origins. What most people didn't know about John Ward, is that he is an ex-cop, and took over Origins I think around 2008, to clean it up and make sure that there were no "incidents" involving LARPers and the LGBTQX community in Columbus. Not surprised the sjw would want to take down John for successfully doing just that, and he was in charge of growing Origins from an average attendance of about 12-14,000 to about double that number last year.

Anon, What do you have against Larry Correia?

Quote from: GameDaddy;1120935Anon, What do you have against Larry Correia?

If he's smart, nothing.

Back to the topic, though, I personally think all this hue and cry is, well, empty. Because ultimately, it's the players and the GM who decide how their game is gonna roll. It's really, REALLY hard to crunch-wire a game so deeply that house-ruling out stupid crap damages it irreparably.

Once the players and GMs get their grubby little mitts on your Social Justice Metaphor Dungeon Exploration Kit, it's only a matter of time until they've kitbashed it into MurderHobos Inc: How to Make Money with Kobold Spleens. Assuming they bother and don't just head over to a less preachy set of books.

Call me what you will but when I'm told someone is racist or whatever because they said thing X or believes thing Y, I do not see that as objectively valid or relevant, I mean, if Nathan Bedford Forest makes a tasty burger I'ma buy that sumbitch, you can't taste racism kids. Now, I may not vote for him to run the NBA or whatever but his beliefs are not really relevant to burgers or game products he might make. Also, consensus or hype of most any kind makes me automatically suspicious and wary; I do suffer with O.D.D. and telling me what to think is a good fast way to make me your enemy.

"But that guy does not respect women!!" yeah, so? I think it would be stupid to say that women are owed a default level of respect just for having a vagina, sure maybe under classic gender role models as the givers of life but today, when its a religious doctrine that a woman is perfectly interchangable with a man, then she can get the same default level of respect I give a man; which is NONE: PENDING MERIT.

Witnessing a struggle session or calls to initate one endgenders within me only contempt for those writhing about in competition for who can be the most outraged and for those who feel they must also compete because the rest of the herd is doing so. I am not a herd animal. I EAT herd animals. Get offended meatsack, get bent right over and get offended inside out to the extent that vlad the impaler gets a chubby.

If a genetically engineered clone of Hitler, ghengis khans ect (serpentor, essentially) makes a good product I WILL BUY THAT DAMN PRODUCT. How evil or gay or what he does to puppies in his spare time is not my concern.

But one way to get me to NOT buy a product, even if it is good, is to virtue signal and fret about wrongthink.

The day a Ghengis Khan clone cooks a burger for me is the day I eat that burger, for no other reason than to be able to say I've been served a burger by a Ghengis Khan clone...

I still have all of my books.  They haven't reclaimed anything.  They are just roleplaying, wannabe SJW heroes.

Only somewhat on topic, but have any of these CoC wannabes ever made inroads into Chaosium's market share? I recall that Trail of Cthulhu seemed to do reasonably well (I picked up a copy), but I think a lot of that had to do with it Being Ken Hite's project.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1120828I doubt it was an official order from White Wolf... I should have taken photos. Anyway just a tiny bit of what happened has come out in other venues...  Some of White Wolf's enclaves, and coven misbehavior goes back much further than 2012-2013 by the way.

Official Statement from Onyx Path from last year
http://theonyxpath.com/about-matt-mcfarland/

Stepping away after being called out publicly.
https://www.geeknative.com/64591/game-designer-matthew-mcfarland-closes-his-company-after-abuse-allegations/

here is the public document on the Camarilla secret societies. What do you suppose would be sensitive enough to be private
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HST91zpiHnfuXGKc_lgxpzOzPHMdEpyHz5fsrB5UzgQ/edit

Acts like a cult? Yep
Compartmentalizes to control information: Yep

Status Quo for the Sabbat
Support your local leader; your loyalty will be rewarded.
Status is the most important thing.
The Code of Milan will be the law of the land.
The pecking order is clear.
Support the Sabbat Inquisition and the Black Hand.
If the system is not broken, leave it alone.
Secretly support sieges and crusades while deriding them as unnecessary wastes of resources that could be better utilized somewhere else.
Do not favor removal of officers of the Sabbat unless absolutely necessary to preserve the tenets of the Sect.

...and on, and on.

You know, I've gotten so tired of this kind of SJW character assassination shit popping up that until I see that the victim has filed charges - I'm not going to care too much. It is the case of too many boys who have cried "Wolf!" I still have not seen or heard of any charges being filed against Matthew McFarland or Michelle Lyons-McFarland even though this story has been out for about a year and both have been publicly demeaned for being bad people.

Quote from: Slipshot762;1120953If a genetically engineered clone of Hitler, ghengis khans ect (serpentor, essentially) makes a good product I WILL BUY THAT DAMN PRODUCT. How evil or gay or what he does to puppies in his spare time is not my concern.

But one way to get me to NOT buy a product, even if it is good, is to virtue signal and fret about wrongthink.

You start off sounding as if what you care about is if the product is good -- but then you say that you've just got a different political litmus test that authors have to pass.

Personally, what I care about is if the product is good. I don't give a damn if the author is liberal or conservative, if they're a gamergater or an SJW.

Quote from: GameDaddy;1120935Anon, What do you have against Larry Correia?

I'd second this question. I've met and corresponded with Larry on a few occasions (he was somewhere between an acquaintance and a friend of my brother before his writing career really took off, and he gave me a lot of insight and guidance on my own writing for a while) - he's a good guy, no matter what people may think about the whole Sad Puppies thing or the shenanigans that ensued.