Quote from: S'mon;1120648My 85 year old mother dying of pancreatic cancer must be Literally Hitler.

So sorry to hear this. God be with you and her and your family.

Quote from: Almost_Useless;1120672I just don't need more of this "your politics = racism" crap..

Oh no no no! The new hotness in the circle of insanity these people inhabit is "your politics = fascism". Which is of course ironic given when you observe these people it is they who are, by textbook definition, the fascists.

Quote from: Lunamancer;1120664I'm just going to leave this here...


"Flannae. The Flan race have a bronze-colored complexion. This varies from a lighter, almost copper shade to a very dark tone which is deepest brown. Eye color is commonly dark brown, black, brown, or amber (in declining order of occurrence). Hair coloration is black, brown-black, dark brown, or brown. Also, Flannae tend to have wavy or curly hair. People of the Duchy of Tenh are pure Flan, proud of their bronze color. Geoff and Sterich, despite mixture, show strong Flan racial influence. The Rovers of the Barrens are of the copper-toned sort of Flannae, although the western tribes show the golden skin color of the Baklunish due to interpreeding with Wolf Nomad tribes. The people of the Hold of Stone Fist and the citizens of the Theocracy of the Pale are primarily hybrids, the former Flan/Suel, the latter Flan/Oeridian. The inhabitants of the Pale are particularly handsome."

This quote is from one of the books from the 1983 World of Greyhawk box set. Get this. The exact title of book in the set this quote is from is "A Catalogue of the Land of Flanaess Being the Eastern Portion of the Continent of Oerik, of Oerth". Get that? The Land of Flanaess. The Flan people were not just some periphery race for tokenism. It's the main race of the area surrounding the City of Greyhawk.



Feel free to compare and contrast to 5E's attempt at finally including a black race in the game which caused shit to hit the fan because they wore loin cloths and used spears.

You really missed the point on that one. At one time the Flan were the main race of humans in the Flanaess, but that time has long since passed in the prehistory of Greyhawk. By CY 576, Oeridian & Suel (and mixes of those two) humans vastly outnumber the Flan, and the Flan have largely been pushed into the periphery of the continent.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1120699You really missed the point on that one. At one time the Flan were the main race of humans in the Flanaess, but that time has long since passed in the prehistory of Greyhawk. By CY 576, Oeridian & Suel (and mixes of those two) humans vastly outnumber the Flan, and the Flan have largely been pushed into the periphery of the continent.

I haven't missed the point at all. It simply isn't the case. Neither the history, nor the time line, nor the migration map provided suggest the Flans were pushed anywhere. The quote I cited lists specific states--states major enough to be displayed on the world map. That is hardly periphery. And regardless of all that, i think you might have missed the real point. That the world is set up, in present state, in CY 576, so you can make your PC look the way you want your PC to look and its logical and justifiable in the world. All races included.

Quote from: MonkeyMan23;1120548I'm seeing this story being posted everywhere else. What does everyone here think of it?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/y3mw5b/how-tabletop-rpgs-are-being-reclaimed-from-bigots-and-jerks

I'm mad that my evil plan to turn table top gaming into Auchwitz had been foiled.

Quote from: Lunamancer;1120717I haven't missed the point at all. It simply isn't the case. Neither the history, nor the time line, nor the migration map provided suggest the Flans were pushed anywhere. The quote I cited lists specific states--states major enough to be displayed on the world map. That is hardly periphery. And regardless of all that, i think you might have missed the real point. That the world is set up, in present state, in CY 576, so you can make your PC look the way you want your PC to look and its logical and justifiable in the world. All races included.

You made a claim that the Flan are not "some periphery race" but they really are little more than a minority in the land named for them. The nations you called 'major' are nothing of the sort; major nations would include Furyondy, Nyrond, Keoland, and the Great Kingdom of Aerdy,  none of which are heavily populated by Flan. Even within the minor lands you named where Flan are indicated, it's unusual to see significant numbers of pure-blooded Flan (DoT excepted). So yeah, they are a "periphery race" that got pushed around by the migrations and aggression of the Suel and Oeridian tribes.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1120718I'm mad that my evil plan to turn table top gaming into Auchwitz had been foiled.

Or is this your Xanatos Gambit?  Its going to be Auchwitz all the way down! :eek:

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1120610Because before 5e it was all white straight males (puagh!) right? Even idiots like Tanahesi Coates say they grew up playing D&D. But yeah there were all whites before the woke brigade got it's dirty paws in the hobby.

Good thing these white, middle-class journalists/developers put a stop to that.

Although it will never cease to amuse me that they fawn over a game where you insert as a supremely powerful, influential race of predators who conduct an extended analogy for sexual assault on vulnerable victims.

Quote from: Snark Knight;1120752Good thing these white, middle-class journalists/developers put a stop to that.

Although it will never cease to amuse me that they fawn over a game where you insert as a supremely powerful, influential race of predators who conduct an extended analogy for sexual assault on vulnerable victims.

Said victims even include children.

It's the identification with evil, they do the same in every medium, fawn over the villain, as long as it's of the correct identity.

Quote from: TNMalt;11205745e has brought in a diverse pop of new players. And I view this as a reaction to real world events. Seeing frat boys with tiki torches spouting anti semitic slogans in the news does that. So I understand the need to have the game table be a refuge from the outside world.

I see role playing as a refuge from the outside world. I see fantasy and science fiction genres in the same way. I want an activity where I can escape from the extreme leftism, misandry, and anti-white racism that seems to dominate so much of life these days. Unfortunately, geeky hobbies are increasingly becoming dominated by SJW's who are using them to push their odious hateful ideology.

Quote from: Snark Knight;1120752Good thing these white, middle-class journalists/developers put a stop to that.

Although it will never cease to amuse me that they fawn over a game where you insert as a supremely powerful, influential race of predators who conduct an extended analogy for sexual assault on vulnerable victims.

Both Geeky Bugle and yourself seem unclear on some aspects of gaming here. First, everyone wasn't and hasn't been "all white" in gaming. In wargaming and RPG gaming I had Japanese, Chinese,  Black Guys (i.e. African Americans), and Mexican/Spanish guys (and gals) in my gaming group as far back as the late 70's. Some of them were even GMs. One of my best wargaming opponents at the early GhenghisCon conventions was a black guy who was a commissioned officer, A west pointer who was an instructor at the Army War College when I first met him. First three times I played him in Squad Leader, he decisively defeated me, and every year I played in the State Tournament and had consistently ranked in the top ten, usually finishing between fourth and sixth (once I even finished second). So I was quite surprised not that i had been beaten, But that I had been decisively defeated losing just about my entire army in the course of our fights. That was an unprecedented experience for me.  So then we discussed tactics, and he admitted that my tactics were spot on, and that a good infantry commander in a real battle would commit his forces in the same or a very similar manner that i did while we were playing. He explained that I failed to beat him because I didn't understand the "game mechanics" and "math" of the game we were playing. and I was like, WTF?

In Squad Leader there is a combat results table. It's been around since the beginning of wargaming pretty much. When you make an attack, you add up all of the attack factors of your combat force, and then roll the dice, 2d6, to get your result. Depending on the strength of the attack you either have no result at all meaning your attack was completely ineffective, you wound or kill a couple guys in the squad breaking the morale of the unit(s) you are attacking forcing the unit to hunker down or retreat to avoid any further casualties, or the unit is completely eliminated taking so many casualties, and having their morale so thoroughly decimated, that they will not be an effective fighting force for the remainder of the time the game is being played. In short they are eliminated. If a unit has its' morale broken twice in a single turn, it is routed and also permanently eliminated. He managed to consistently decisively win because he split up his forces, made many individual low powered attacks, and didn't stack his squads to concentrate his forces and make high-powered attacks, opting instead to make many more low powered attacks, going for high quantity attacks versus high quality attacks. The Squad leader combat results table favored this "unrealistic" and historically inaccurate tactic, and the actual result was that a dispersed weak force was 1) hard to kill, because of the high quantity of targets, and 2) Would do more damage with each squad making a separate attack roll dramatically increasing the probability that the target units morale could be broken. With a double or more quantity of attacks, it is much easier to kill a unit by breaking its morale twice in a single turn, than by eliminating it by subjecting it to a withering and intense amount of fire.

So I was losing not because I wasn't a good tactician and battlefield commander, but because up until that time, I didn't properly understand the game mechanics of the game (Squad Leader), that we had been playing. My takeaway lessons from the series of games that I played with him was:

1) the Game Mechanics expressed in the rules are the single most important factor for any game, and have absolutely no bearing on what actually occurs in the real world. The mechanics and rules need to be evaluated and all aspects and implications understood, ...prior to play.

2) It wasn't only white guys that could be superbly good at running or playing wargames, or roleplaying games for that matter, since you only need to understand the rules of what game is actually being played.

What I learned upped my Squad Leader game considerably, and thereafter, I never ranked less than third in Squad Leader boardgame tournaments, ...well, ...anywhere.



I don't think that Dungeons and Dragons, especially 5th edition, is a game about an "influential race of predators who conduct an extended analogy for sexual assault on vulnerable victims." I think a very tiny, tiny, subgroup of players and GMs are playing this game that way, and that they have learned to play that particular version of game, because of the education received within their specific emerging social group, or culture. I think this play style is getting an unwarranted amount of attention and press coverage (even though it is only actually being played by a tiny percentage of gamers) because of the divisive and controversial implications of playing in this manner far outweighs the way most GMs and players actually are playing the game. But because it is controversial, it is getting undeserved attentions in both the news, and in some gaming forums.


Finally, The marketplace, and the specific distribution channels of early Dungeons and Dragons (and other roleplaying games in general) originated in the small town midwest, instead of on the East or West coast. This was a game that was specifically marketed into the local hobby shops, comic book stores, and game stores of small town (midwest) America, and spread from there. Here in Indiana, the population breakdown is like this...

Indiana Population 2020 census estimate -- 6,745,354
White: 83.59%
Black or African American: 9.33%
Two or more races: 2.45%
Asian: 2.18%
Other race: 2.18%
Native American: 0.22%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.04%

Let's look at Wisconsin, the true home of D&D

Wisconsin Population 2010 census estimate -- 5,686,986
White: 83.3%
Black or African American: 6.2%
Hispanic 5.9%
Two or more races: 1.4%
Asian: 2.3%
Other race: 2.18%
Native American: 0.9%


Midwest Population 2010 Census estimate
White: 67.8%
Hispanic 17.1%
Black or African American: 10.7%
Asian: 2.4%
Two or more races: 1.6%
Other race: .1%
Native American: 0.3%


United States 2020 Census Estimates -- Population 330,200,286
White: 59.2% (Actual)
Hispanic 16.3%
Black or African American: 12.6%
Asian: 4.8%
Two or more races: 3.1%
Other race: 6.2%
Native American: 0.9%

I'd just like to note for my research here today that the demographics available falsely indicates that white people make up about 72% of the population of the United States as of the 2010 census. This is false. My actual research, counting the minority races first indicate only about 59.2% of the population is Caucasian or white. In the midwest where Roleplaying Games originated, that number is much higher, more than 75% are White, because white people are now concentrated in the heartland, including the midwest, and the East and West Coast are both much more diverse.

Here is the demographic breakdown for California for example...
California Population 2020 census estimate -- 39,937,489
White: 60.10%
Asian: 14.32%
Other race: 13.83%
Black or African American: 5.79%
Two or more races: 4.81%
Native American: 0.76%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.39%

...and New York
New York Population 2020 census estimate -- 19,440,469
White: 63.79%
Black or African American: 15.64%
Other race: 8.76%
Asian: 8.31%
Two or more races: 3.05%
Native American: 0.41%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.04%

New York City
New York City 2020 census estimate -- 8,398,748
White: 42.67%
Black or African American: 24.27%
Other race: 15.12%
Asian: 13.95%
Two or more races: 3.51%
Native American: 0.43%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.05%


My whole point is, is for most of the history of RPGs, the group that adopted the game, and played it the most, is of course, white people because the game originated in the area of the country, and was distributed from the area of the United States with the highest Caucasian or "White" population. Now this is not a statement of superiority, or of racism, it is merely an inconvenient fact for sjw cucks and woke fucks that refuse to acknowledge the truth of this, or who would like to change the history, or narrative of the evolution of RPG's.

America as a whole, is becoming more diverse though, and White people are expected to become the actual minority of the total population as soon as 2045 if current census trends in race and population growth remain. This is also the reason Donald Trump and his Ilk are trying to stop the tide by building new walls, but it is waaaaaaay toooo late for that. The population is going to flip not because of external immigration, but because of already existing internal population birthrate and deathrate trends, just sayin'

As for RPG gaming, Not sure why anyone would be offended because in the United States, mostly ( however definitely not only!!!) white people play D&D 5e?



~The RPGSite -- Now with more actual facts and newsworthy reports than VICE magazine, since 2020 at least!

Quote from: GameDaddy;1120758Both Geeky Bugle and yourself seem unclear on some aspects of gaming here. First, everyone wasn't and hasn't been "all white" in gaming.

You might want to get your sarcasm detector fixed, friend.

Quote from: Snark Knight;1120759You might want to get your sarcasm detector fixed, friend.

He needs his brain fixed too.

Quote from: Snark Knight;1120759You might want to get your sarcasm detector fixed, friend.

Says the guy(s) supporting the guy who says, and I quote "Although it will never cease to amuse me that they fawn over a game where you insert as a supremely powerful, influential race of predators who conduct an extended analogy for sexual assault on vulnerable victims." all the while referring to D&D and 5e linking them inextricably in the minds of all readers with the "woke" losers who are intent on making all games (as many as they can)  like this. I'll be happy to adjust my worldview to accommodate better games and gaming, but never for this, and would also say, ...that you should adjust your sarcasm detector first, and not presume ill intent just because the game originated within a non-diverse and unified race, and cultural group.