TheRPGSite

As reported on my blog, from Stafford's pages, it would appear that there are plans in the works for not one but two games based on the Pendragon system: one for "mythical Japan", and one for "Charlemagne".

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;378757As reported on my blog, from Stafford's pages, it would appear that there are plans in the works for not one but two games based on the Pendragon system: one for "mythical Japan", and one for "Charlemagne".

RPGPundit

Woah. That got my attention.

Wow!  Color me very interested. :)

i'm stoked!  no ETA yet?  i'm just thinking year, not quarter or month, of course.

Charlemagne? I'm going to get this, for sure.

Mythic Japan, depends.

I believe the technical term for this is w00t!

Its a shame other RPG companies can't make such an excellent announcement. I'm lookinhg at you Green Ronin...

Charlemagne? Awesome. I'm not sure about Mythic Japan, I've friends who will love it regardless.

Oh, this is very interesting indeed.  Maybe we can get Norse myth added to the list later? (Again, I add.)

Mythic Japan does nothing for me, but Charlemagne sounds awesome.

Has any publisher done anything RPG-wise with seagoing merchant Phoenicians?


- Ed C.

Great news. Not very interested in Japan, but Charlemagne sounds rocking.

Yes, especially if they give it the same treatment the Great Pendragon Campaign got.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;379070Yes, especially if they give it the same treatment the Great Pendragon Campaign got.

RPGPundit

Oh, that would so great.

Quote from: RPGPundit;379070Yes, especially if they give it the same treatment the Great Pendragon Campaign got.

RPGPundit

You mean like The Song of Roland Campaign Book ?

Holy shit. That would be AWESOME. IF the authors know what they're writing about.

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, it's awesome news to see a Charlemagne product coming out for Pendragon as one of my first thoughts upon getting the 5th edition campaign book was how easy it would be to do a similar campaign for Charlemagne. On the other, I had planned to make a Charlemagne book and release it as a gaming product. But, maybe gamers are interested enough in the period to have multiple books/systems treat Charlemagne's era. :-)

Quote from: Benoist;379083You mean like The Song of Roland Campaign Book ?

Holy shit. That would be AWESOME. IF the authors know what they're writing about.

The Matter of France is really overlooked as a RPG setting. Dibs on Maugris the Magician!

For my stillborn Iron Heroes game, I intended taking the Chanson de Roland and giving it the Bernard Cornwell (a la Warlord Chronicles) treatment. The game tanked, because I can't run d20 worth shit, and the idea was archived back into the recesses of my RPG-addled brain.

I've never played Pendragon, but I hear and read nothing but good things about it. And both the Matter of France, and feudal Japan are time periods relevant to my gaming interests.

Quote from: Benoist;378770Charlemagne? I'm going to get this, for sure.

Yes. A good Charlemagne RPG is long overdue.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;378801Oh, this is very interesting indeed.  Maybe we can get Norse myth added to the list later? (Again, I add.)

That would certainly get my attention. :)

Quote from: Koltar;378861Has any publisher done anything RPG-wise with seagoing merchant Phoenicians?

Sounds like a Traveller hack waiting to happen. ;)

Sort-of-related: Are there any plans to bring Pendragon itself back into print?

Quote from: Koltar;378861Has any publisher done anything RPG-wise with seagoing merchant Phoenicians?


- Ed C.

I don't think so, no.  However, have you seen Paul Elliott/Mithras's Zenobia?  That covers that to an extent.

A Charlemagne Great Campaign would indeed be 10 pounds of awesome in a 5 pound bag, but I think something along the lines of an Ieyesu Tokugawa Great Campaign would be sweet too.

I've run Japanese Pendragon, it worked exceptionally well.  It's a very good fit.

To be honest I'd like to see those rules used for more settings.  Three Musketeers style action would be good too.

Loyalty:  King
Loyalty:  Musketeers
Love:  Mistress
Hate:  Cardinal's Guard

and all that.

Even:
Loyalty:  Husband
Love:  Lover
for the female characters...

Quote from: EmboldenedNavigator;380682Sort-of-related: Are there any plans to bring Pendragon itself back into print?

Yes! Pendragon recently moved to a new publisher and apparently the game is going to be reprinted.

RPGPundit

I may have a chance to play the Great Pendragon Campaign at some point this year. Charlemagne and Medieval Japan both sound awesome as possible campaigns as well, thanks for sharing the news, Pundit.

Quote from: RPGPundit;380874Yes! Pendragon recently moved to a new publisher and apparently the game is going to be reprinted.

RPGPundit

That is good news. Pendragon is a game that just shouldn't be allowed to go out of print.

QuoteYou mean like The Song of Roland Campaign Book ?
Holy shit. That would be AWESOME. IF the authors know what they're writing about.

Hello,

I'm currently working on the project. My bibliography consists of about 50 chansons de geste, famous or obscure ones, in old / modern French, English and Dutch. Plus about 3,000 pages of studies on Frankish culture & chronology. No decision to the precise contents have yet been made, but a short year-by-year chronology (767-814) similar to the Great Pendragon Campaign will almost certainly be included. Other topics: all important characters and their complete stories + adventuring ideas, descriptions of foreign lands & cultures (Saracens, Persians, Northmen, Huns, Saxons, Byzantines, Slavs, etc.) and of course a few specific Frankish rules & mechanisms.

I've also written a few adventures, adapted from the gestes, including The Battle of the Humble Squires (767, Enfances Ogier), The Gardens of Fortune (775, Orlando Furioso), The King Thief (784, Karel ende Elegast) and a complete Huon's Quest (810-813, Huon de Bordeaux), but I doubt whether they will make it to the game book. Maybe as supplements or pdf downloads, but that's not for me to decide...

Quote from: Ruben;387965Hello,

I'm currently working on the project. My bibliography consists of about 50 chansons de geste, famous or obscure ones, in old / modern French, English and Dutch. Plus about 3,000 pages of studies on Frankish culture & chronology. No decision to the precise contents have yet been made, but a short year-by-year chronology (767-814) similar to the Great Pendragon Campaign will almost certainly be included. Other topics: all important characters and their complete stories + adventuring ideas, descriptions of foreign lands & cultures (Saracens, Persians, Northmen, Huns, Saxons, Byzantines, Slavs, etc.) and of course a few specific Frankish rules & mechanisms.

I've also written a few adventures, adapted from the gestes, including The Battle of the Humble Squires (767, Enfances Ogier), The Gardens of Fortune (775, Orlando Furioso), The King Thief (784, Karel ende Elegast) and a complete Huon's Quest (810-813, Huon de Bordeaux), but I doubt whether they will make it to the game book. Maybe as supplements or pdf downloads, but that's not for me to decide...

Hello! Welcome to TRPGSite. :)

I completely understand. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't dream of having all these influences/inspirations treated all explicitly and equally in a game book (though if there was any way to do it and yet make the game, as well as the original materials, justice in the process, you wouldn't hear me complain about it). Just getting confirmation that you do indeed draw inspiration from these materials, and do care about them, is really happy news in my book.

How is it coming along, if you don't mind me asking? How long have you been working on this, and do you have any vague idea on when this could hit the stores? I understand if you want to keep things under wraps, can't or are not at liberty to answer questions at this point.

I wish you strength, courage and good luck in your endeavors, in any case. That sounds fascinating, and I'll certainly check it out once you're done with it!

Quote from: Ruben;387965No decision to the precise contents have yet been made, but a short year-by-year chronology (767-814) similar to the Great Pendragon Campaign will almost certainly be included.

Sounds great!
Good luck with it.

Quote from: Ruben;387965Hello,

I'm currently working on the project. My bibliography consists of about 50 chansons de geste, famous or obscure ones, in old / modern French, English and Dutch. Plus about 3,000 pages of studies on Frankish culture & chronology. No decision to the precise contents have yet been made, but a short year-by-year chronology (767-814) similar to the Great Pendragon Campaign will almost certainly be included. Other topics: all important characters and their complete stories + adventuring ideas, descriptions of foreign lands & cultures (Saracens, Persians, Northmen, Huns, Saxons, Byzantines, Slavs, etc.) and of course a few specific Frankish rules & mechanisms.

I've also written a few adventures, adapted from the gestes, including The Battle of the Humble Squires (767, Enfances Ogier), The Gardens of Fortune (775, Orlando Furioso), The King Thief (784, Karel ende Elegast) and a complete Huon's Quest (810-813, Huon de Bordeaux), but I doubt whether they will make it to the game book. Maybe as supplements or pdf downloads, but that's not for me to decide...

Absolutely fantastic!

Welcome to theRPGsite, and please keep us all informed about how its coming along!

RPGPundit

QuoteHow is it coming along, if you don't mind me asking? How long have you been working on this, and do you have any vague idea on when this could hit the stores? I understand if you want to keep things under wraps, can't or are not at liberty to answer questions at this point.

I've been working on this book intermittently from 2002 on, i.e. from the days that Peter Corless (Green Knight publishing) owned the Pendragon game. Now Greg Stafford has his own game back again, and he's put the project back on track.

There's not much more content-related information I can give you, I'm afraid. All I can say is that I've finished the reasearch, and I'm now putting all my notes into the computer (will take a few months) before I can start the actual writing phase. My guess is that I will finish the complete product some time in the second half of 2011. But since I'm not a native English speaker, the manuscript would then need some serious editing. All in all, it's still early days to talk about possible release dates.

Cheers,
Ruben

All good Ruben, no need to sweat it. This sort of thing has got to be done right.
Doesn't matter how long it takes, from my POV. :)

Thanks for the feedback, by the way. It's very much welcome, indeed.

bump.

Any news on this project ?

I was just recently wondering the same myself.

RPGPundit

Hello good folks,

All player knights will be Christian Franks from the duchy of the Ardennes in the year 767, which is one year before king Pepin the Short dies and Charlemagne will become king together with his younger brother Carloman.

Finished:
+ Frankish society
+ Foreign lands & peoples
+ Your homelands (the Ardennes)
+ Wealth
+ Bestiary
+ Ambitions, Ideals, Glory, Traits & Passions
+ The complete Paladins chronology, which mingles historical events with the stories from 80 chansons de gestes (I've left a few some out), giving precedence to the latter, of course.
+ Rules & game mechanics; the rules differ only slightly from Pendragon. A few things are added to suit the setting, and have been validated by Greg Stafford, such as rules for prayers and miracles, the conversion of pagans, the seduction of pagan princesses and some new scores called Attitudes (how others think of you, like inversed Passions).

I still need to write the section on character and family creation, an introduction scenario and add a chapter about the paladins and other important characters (+some complicated genealogy trees).

The "problem" is that I've recently been promoted to a job which is going to cost me all my weekends. Still, I'll try hard to finish this project before the end of summer and then submit it to Greg...

Hello good folks,

All player knights will be Christian Franks from the duchy of the Ardennes in the year 767, which is one year before king Pepin the Short dies and Charlemagne will become king together with his younger brother Carloman.

Finished:
+ Frankish society
+ Foreign lands & peoples
+ Your homelands (the Ardennes)
+ Wealth
+ Bestiary
+ Ambitions, Ideals, Glory, Traits & Passions
+ The complete Paladins chronology, which mingles historical events with the stories from 80 chansons de gestes (I've left a few some out), giving precedence to the latter, of course.
+ Rules & game mechanics; the rules differ only slightly from Pendragon. A few things are added to suit the setting, and have been validated by Greg Stafford, such as rules for prayers and miracles, the conversion of pagans, the seduction of pagan princesses and some new scores called Attitudes (how others think of you, like inversed Passions).

I still need to write the section on character and family creation, an introduction scenario and add a chapter about the paladins and other important characters (+some complicated genealogy trees).

The "problem" is that I've recently been promoted to a job which is going to cost me all my weekends. Still, I'll try hard to finish this project before the end of summer and then submit it to Greg...

Hello good folks,

All player knights will be Christian Franks from the duchy of the Ardennes in the year 767, which is one year before king Pepin the Short dies and Charlemagne will become king together with his younger brother Carloman.

Finished:
+ Frankish society
+ Foreign lands & peoples
+ Your homelands (the Ardennes)
+ Wealth
+ Bestiary
+ Ambitions, Ideals, Glory, Traits & Passions
+ The complete Paladins chronology, which mingles historical events with the stories from 80 chansons de gestes (I've left a few some out), giving precedence to the latter, of course.
+ Rules & game mechanics; the rules differ only slightly from Pendragon. A few things are added to suit the setting, and have been validated by Greg Stafford, such as rules for prayers and miracles, the conversion of pagans, the seduction of pagan princesses and some new scores called Attitudes (how others think of you, like inversed Passions).

I still need to write the section on character and family creation, an introduction scenario and add a chapter about the paladins and other important characters (+some complicated genealogy trees).

The "problem" is that I've recently been promoted to a job which is going to cost me all my weekends. Still, I'll try hard to finish this project before the end of summer and then submit it to Greg...

QuoteAny news on this project ?

Hello good folks,

All player knights will be Christian Franks from the duchy of the Ardennes in the year 767, which is one year before king Pepin the Short dies and Charlemagne will become king together with his younger brother Carloman.

Finished:
+ Frankish society
+ Foreign lands & peoples
+ Your homelands (the Ardennes)
+ Wealth
+ Bestiary
+ Ambitions, Ideals, Glory, Traits & Passions
+ The complete Paladins chronology, which mingles historical events with the stories from 80 chansons de gestes (I've left a few some out), giving precedence to the latter, of course.
+ Rules & game mechanics; the rules differ only slightly from Pendragon. A few things are added to suit the setting, and have been validated by Greg Stafford, such as rules for prayers and miracles, the conversion of pagans, the seduction of pagan princesses and some new scores called Attitudes (how others think of you, like inversed Passions).

I still need to write the section on character and family creation, an introduction scenario and add a chapter about the paladins and other important characters (+some complicated genealogy trees).

The "problem" is that I've recently been promoted to a job which is going to cost me all my weekends. Still, I'll try hard to finish this project before the end of summer and then submit it to Greg...

Sounds awesome.

Please keep us posted.

Karl der Große?

Very interested in something Stafford wrote, this is a first.

The Continent FTW.

I'm pondering the timing of the game, seems to me the reign of Charlemagne and the formation of his peers would be bigger on adventuring than starting before that. Is there a specific reason for starting during Pepin the Short's rule?

Will the game cover issues of loyalty?

Quote from: Silverlion;461487I'm pondering the timing of the game, seems to me the reign of Charlemagne and the formation of his peers would be bigger on adventuring than starting before that. Is there a specific reason for starting during Pepin the Short's rule?

My guess: you play a squire in the intro adventure, and become a knight at the end of the first year.

Quote

QuoteOriginally Posted by Silverlion View Post
I'm pondering the timing of the game, seems to me the reign of Charlemagne and the formation of his peers would be bigger on adventuring than starting before that. Is there a specific reason for starting during Pepin the Short's rule?

My guess: you play a squire in the intro adventure, and become a knight at the end of the first year.

You guessed correctly :)

The order of paladins is founded by Charlemagne after the Battle of the Humble Squires (767). The period after that is mostly about the rebellious barons (Ogier the Dane, Renaud of Montalban and his brothers) and the conquest of Lombardy (773-774). Then come a few years based on the Italian romances (Boiardo & Ariosto) focussing on Roland's passions, up to the dramatic battle of Roncesvaux (778).

In order to allow player characters to play this crucial period, one should start in/around 767...

QuoteWill the game cover issues of loyalty?

Yes, but the base passions have been reduced. Honor will cover both Honor, Loyalty and Hospitality. The other main passions will be Love (family), Love (Charlemagne) and Love (God). The latter 2 will have a use for prayers and miracles.

Awesome stuff then Ruben!

Quote from: Ruben;461448the conversion of pagans, the seduction of pagan princesses

And, please, don't leave out the opportunity to play some serious kick-ass paladinette like Bradamant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradamante) (who married Ruggiero after converting him). I already have a (female) player of mine in mind for this kind of character :)

Also very excited about this. I stumbled into the Charlamagne stories through the side door after reading L. Sprague De Camp's take on Orlando Furioso and The Faerie Queene in one of his fantasy novels. After finishing that book, I found copies of the referenced works and moved on from there.

Pendragon did such a wonderful job of capturing the Arthurian cycle that I'm sure this project will also be a joy to read and play.

QuoteAnd, please, don't leave out the opportunity to play some serious kick-ass paladinette like Bradamant (who married Ruggiero after converting him). I already have a (female) player of mine in mind for this kind of character

Bradamant is rather an exception. The only other story in which a woman takes on the role of a knight is in "Lion de Bourges", where Lion's mother Alis fights as 'sir Ballian' for a while (until she slays a giant and the emir's daughter wants to mary her!). So, based on these two examples game masters may indeed decide to allow exceptional female knight characters -- even though female knights do not smoothly fit in a carolingian society. (Note that this  choice already exists in Pendragon.)

What? Miracles? Giants? What is this shit?

For those of you who'd be interested, here is the list of used primary sources:

Sources (chansons de geste)

Aiol
Ami and Amile
Anseis of Carthago
Aquilon of Bavaria
Aquin of Brittany
Aspremont, The Song of  –

* Aymeri de Narbonne Cycle
Garin of Monglane’s Childhood
Garin of Monglane
Aymeri of Narbonne
Girart of Vienne
The Narbonnais
Siege of Barbastre, The –
Guibert of Andrenas
Conquest of Cordoba, The –
Death of Aymeri of Narbonne, The –
Bueves of Commarchis
Galien the Restored

Bertrada Broadfoot
Charlemagne and Elegast
Daurel and Beton
Destruction of Rome, The –
Doon of La Roche
Elie of Saint Giles
Fierabras
Floris and Blancheflour
Four Sons of Aymon, The –
Gaufrey
Girart of Roussillon
Gormont and Isembard

* Guillaume Cycle
Guillaume’s Childhood
Coronation of Louis, The –
Handcart of Nîmes, The –
Conquest of Orange, The –
Vivien’s Childhood
Vivien’s Knighthood
Aliscans
Bueves of Commarchis
Barbastre, The Siege of –
Battle of Loquifer, The –
Rainouart the Monk
Guillaume the Monk
Song of Guillaume, The –
Foulque of Candie

Hildebrand, The Lay of –
Huon of Bordeaux

* Karlamagnus Saga
Life of Charlemagne, The –
Olive and Landri
Ogier the Dane
King Agolant
Widukind the Saxon
Otuel
Voyage of Charlemagne, The –
William Shortnose
Death of Charlemagne, The –

Lion of Bourges

* Lorrains Cycle
Hervis of Metz
Garin the Lorrain
Gerbert of Metz
Anseïs of Metz
Fromondin’s Vengeance

Mainet
Maugis of Aigremont

* Nanteuil Cycle
Doon of Nanteuil
Aye of Avignon
Guy of Nanteuil
Duchess Parise

Orson of Beauvais
Otinel
Ralph the Collier
Raoul of Cambrai

* Roland Cycle
Pseudo-Turpin Chronicle, The –
Roland at Saragossa
Roland and Ferragut
Song of Roland, The –
Roland Furious
Roland In Love

Saxons, The Song of the –
Siege of Milan, The –
Simon of Apulia
Sultan of Babylon, The –
Voyage of Charlemagne, The –

Rejected epics

Floovent
Jourdain of Blaye
Knight of the Swan (The –)
Loyhier and Malart
Morgante
Valentin and Nameless
Tristan of Nanteuil
Vivien of Monbranc

Quote from: Settembrini;461558What? Miracles? Giants? What is this shit?

It's the Matter of France, not historical Charlemagne.

So it starts in 767, when does it end?  And is the style of the chronology going to be in the same format, and therefore as awesome, as the Great Pendragon Campaign?

RPGPundit

QuoteSo it starts in 767, when does it end? And is the style of the chronology going to be in the same format, and therefore as awesome, as the Great Pendragon Campaign?

The chronology finishes at Charlemagne's death in 814 (after the Quest of the Last Paladin = Huon of Bordeaux) and will be presented in a double format: the main events + related epics/adventure ideas in a boxed side-text. It will not, however, be as extensive as the Great Pendragon Campaign, which is a thick book in itself. The Paladins chronology will probably cover about 40 pages 'only'.

Still, I do try to make it as awesome as I can... ;)

Cool! I want a copy!

So what's a good start for reading these tales, in English and fairly easy to find? Bulfinch's Legends of Charlemagne? Is there a newer collection that's superseded it, similar to how Edith Hamilton's works did for the Classical mythologies?

I've read a book on the real Charlemagne recently and remember the old TSR book on him, but neither are IIRC what this thread is about.

I like Gustav Dore's illustrations for Orlando Furioso but suspect the actual work will be simliar to say The Fairie Queene, and not an introductary work.

On a similar note, is there something similar for Charlemange to Thomas Malory for Arthur, a definative collection of tales?

QuoteSo what's a good start for reading these tales? .. Is there something similar for Charlemagne to Thomas Malory for Arthur, a definative collection of tales?

If only...
Most of these epics aren't even readily available in French!
The main works are:

Retellings

-- James Baldwin & Peter Hurd, Story of Roland, various editions
-- Thomas Bulfinch, Legends of Charlemagne, various editions

Original epics

-- The Song of Roland (available as Penguin)
-- Chanson de Guillaume and La Prise d'Orange, ed. Philip E. Bennett (London, 2001)
-- Guillaume d'Orange: Four Twelfth-Century Epics, ed. Joan M. Ferrante (New York, 2001)
-- Karlamagnus saga: The saga of Charlemagne and his heroes (Toronto, 1980)
-- The Four Sons of Aymon, ed. Alice Boden (London, 1978)
-- Orlando Furioso, Ludovico Ariosto (Oxford, 2008)
-- Orlando Innamorato, Matteo Boiardo (Oxford, 1995)

Apart from the retellings (which focuss on the two Italian romances and The Pseudo-Turpin Chronicle) and The Song of Roland, you'll probably need to visit a university library or pay a good sum of money to get a second hand copy via some online library.

That's why the Paladins book will give a short summary of all 80 epics used to establish the chronology.

Finally, there exist three original Old English epics (The Siege of Milan, The Sultan of Babylon and Ralph the Collier):
-- Three Middle English Charlemagne Romances, ed. Alan Lupack (Kalamazoo, 1990)

So, best start with The Song of Roland and then continue with Bulfinch. I should warn you that Bulfinch's versions of some stories are not what I consider to be canonical. And since Bulfinch ignores the entire cycles of the Narbonnais and thus the Guillaume Cycle, you should also read at least one of the above texts about Guillaume.

Have a nice read!

Quote from: Ruben;461576The chronology finishes at Charlemagne's death in 814 (after the Quest of the Last Paladin = Huon of Bordeaux) and will be presented in a double format: the main events + related epics/adventure ideas in a boxed side-text. It will not, however, be as extensive as the Great Pendragon Campaign, which is a thick book in itself.

But of course we are altready waiting for the "Great Charlemagne Campaign" companion :cool:

Quote from: Ruben;461557Bradamant is rather an exception. The only other story in which a woman takes on the role of a knight is in "Lion de Bourges", where Lion's mother Alis fights as 'sir Ballian' for a while (until she slays a giant and the emir's daughter wants to mary her!).

Don't forget Marfisa, Ruggiero's sister in both "Orlando Innamorato" and "Orlando Furioso" - and warrior-queen of India (she started as a slave and ended up conquering seven kingdoms, Conan-like). Marfisa later joins Charlemagne's army. When Ruggiero is killed by a traitor she and Bradamant raze the killer's hometown to the ground all by themselves - no armies needed, no prisoners taken.

Then there is Clorinda, of course, but in the later "Gierusalemme Liberata" by Torquato Tasso, which is set during the Crusades.

QuoteDon't forget Marfisa, Ruggiero's sister in both "Orlando Innamorato" and "Orlando Furioso" - and warrior-queen of India (she started as a slave and ended up conquering seven kingdoms, Conan-like). Marfisa later joins Charlemagne's army. When Ruggiero is killed by a traitor she and Bradamant raze the killer's hometown to the ground all by themselves - no armies needed, no prisoners taken.

Then there is Clorinda, of course, but in the later "Gierusalemme Liberata" by Torquato Tasso, which is set during the Crusades.

Indeed, you are quite right. The Italian romances allow for more active female roles, but they are not my prime source of inspiration since they are generally of a much later date than the original epics of the 12th and 13th century (some even date from the 11th). Tasso and Pulci are altogether beyond my scope, as are the numerous side narratives from Boiardo and Ariosto. But for a GM looking for inspiration, they remain a great source of romantic fantasy adventures (as opposed to the feudal crusader-spirited epics).

How (or will) the game handle magic, and what sorts of creatures will appear in the bestiary?

QuoteHow (or will) the game handle magic, and what sorts of creatures will appear in the bestiary?

The difference between Pendragon and Paladin is, of course, related to the used sources. Arthurian romances have fantastic magic, whereas Carolingian epics have wondrous magic. Therefore, the magic of Paladins is not so much about ‘fantasy’ spells, but is centered around divine interventions, like dreams, miracles and divine aid in combat. Note that the Franks are the only people to benefit from the Christian God's help! Saracens, Saxons, Slavs, Avars, Huns and other pagans, and even the Christian Byzantines (heretics!) have to get along all by themselves, without supernatural support...

Magic use for player knights is restricted. Like in a standard Pendragon campaign, they have no access to spells. Frankish knight-thief-wizard characters such as Maugis and Basin are strictly NPC. Other magic NPCs are pagan sorcerors and faeries.

As mentioned, player characters may, however, benefit from God’s aid:
-- when God sends them messages (dreams, visions, letters from heaven, etc.),
-- when they pray,
-- when others pray for them,
-- when they want to convert an honorable pagan opponent,
-- when they want to seduce a pagan princesss,
-- when they uphold justice in a trial-by-combat.

The Bestiary will not be very original and will contain more or less the same creatures as Pendragon. I included the Hippogryph and the Dragon, for example, even if none are mentioned in the French epics. I've also added some things from the Ardennes' folklore (nutons, etc), as this is the player characters' homeland.

Quote from: Ruben;462001Magic use for player knights is restricted. Like in a standard Pendragon campaign, they have no access to spells. Frankish knight-thief-wizard characters such as Maugis and Basin are strictly NPC. Other magic NPCs are pagan sorcerors and faeries.

How does NPC magic work?

QuoteHow does NPC magic work?

It works fine!

Seriously, there will be only a few guidelines about NPC magic, apart from a list of spells encountered in the epics. Magic acts purely a plot device, so the GM will just have to wing it, as in Pendragon, or use the magic system from Pendragon 4th edition. So, if you as a GM want a Saracen sorceror who throws fire balls, go ahead and do it. If you want a faerie enchantress who makes player knights fall in love with her, that's fine too. The spell list and the summaries of the epics will give sufficient examples of what is "right" for the game, but there will be no system to quantify spell powers in terms of levels or possible damage.

And who knows, maybe by the time Paladins gets in the stores (end of 2012?), does Greg also publish a new Book of Magic? If so, it will undoubtedly be Paladins compattible...

Hello,

All summer, I've worked hard on the Charlemagne game. I've now finished a draft version of the Charlemagne RPG (with Pendragon mechanics). It's about 260 pages and contains the following chapters:

-- Frankish Society (30p)
-- Franklands (15p)
-- Foreign Cultures (30p)
-- Character Creation (15p)
-- The Frankish Past (15p)
-- Game Mechanics (65p)
-- Characters and Creatures (10p)
-- Wealth and Treasure (15p)
-- Adventures (35p)
-- The Future (30p)

I'm now busy editing, checking cross-references, etc. This should not take me more than a month, after which I will send the draft version to Greg Stafford.

More news before the end of this year...

(P.S.: BTW, to express my sympathy for the ideas and attitude of the creator of this site, The RPG Site is the only place where I give updates about my work in progress.)

That is EXCELLENT news! Thanks for keeping us updated, Ruben! :)

I really look forward to running this game. Merci!

Quote from: Ruben;478279Hello,

All summer, I've worked hard on the Charlemagne game. I've now finished a draft version of the Charlemagne RPG (with Pendragon mechanics). It's about 260 pages and contains the following chapters:

-- Frankish Society (30p)
-- Franklands (15p)
-- Foreign Cultures (30p)
-- Character Creation (15p)
-- The Frankish Past (15p)
-- Game Mechanics (65p)
-- Characters and Creatures (10p)
-- Wealth and Treasure (15p)
-- Adventures (35p)
-- The Future (30p)

I'm now busy editing, checking cross-references, etc. This should not take me more than a month, after which I will send the draft version to Greg Stafford.

More news before the end of this year...

(P.S.: BTW, to express my sympathy for the ideas and attitude of the creator of this site, The RPG Site is the only place where I give updates about my work in progress.)

That sounds awesome, and thank you for that note of support!

RPGPundit

I don't have anything to add but I've been following along with interest.  Definitely let us know once there is a publication date.

I have heard rumors of this for years,Meathe decades.  
VerY pleased with the updates.

NPC only magic suits me just fine.

Me as well... in my Pendragon campaign none of my players felt put upon by the prohibition on PC magic.

RPGPundit

Playing a wizard isn't the point of a Pendragon game.

Is slaughtering Saxons racist?

Sorry, couldn't help it.  :D

Quote from: CRKrueger;478926Is slaughtering Saxons racist?

Depends. Are they pig-faced? Do they look like Nixon?

I'm holding my breath. This looks so promising.

I finished a first complete manuscript last month. Greg Stafford is currently reading it for comments. The troubleshooting and rewriting should not take more than a month or three. Then, hopefully, we will enter the ultimate editoral phase. It's too early to give a date of publication, but my guess would be around fall next year.

Quote from: Ruben;493550I finished a first complete manuscript last month. Greg Stafford is currently reading it for comments. The troubleshooting and rewriting should not take more than a month or three. Then, hopefully, we will enter the ultimate editoral phase. It's too early to give a date of publication, but my guess would be around fall next year.

Thank you very much for your hard work and the updates, Ruben. This is, once again, greatly appreciated. I cannot wait to see the game and play the hell out of it.

Update on PALADIN (Charlemagne with Pendragon rules)

Things haven't gone very well for me this year, but I'm back now and hoping to see some progress on the publication front. The editor, Stewart Wieck, has been busy doing other things, but it seems he finally made up his mind and get PALADIN out in the stores for 2013...

Quote from: Ruben;601756Update on PALADIN (Charlemagne with Pendragon rules)

Things haven't gone very well for me this year, but I'm back now and hoping to see some progress on the publication front. The editor, Stewart Wieck, has been busy doing other things, but it seems he finally made up his mind and get PALADIN out in the stores for 2013...

*crossing my fingers*

Come on, Stewart, move it! :D

Quote from: Ruben;601756The editor, Stewart Wieck,

Is it Stewart Wieck of White Wolf?

Quote from: Ruben;601756Update on PALADIN (Charlemagne with Pendragon rules)

Things haven't gone very well for me this year, but I'm back now and hoping to see some progress on the publication front. The editor, Stewart Wieck, has been busy doing other things, but it seems he finally made up his mind and get PALADIN out in the stores for 2013...

I hope so, but I won't hold my breath.

RPGPundit

QuoteIs it Stewart Wieck of White Wolf?

I didn't sign with White Wolf, but with Nocturnal (= Stewart Wieck).

Are there any other Pendragon projects in the work, or is Stafford done with it?

RPGPundit

There are still Pendagron books being released regularly, like the Book of Entourage, or this one : http://nocturnal-media.com/forum/index.php?topic=1706.0

Or do you mean other KAP adaptations for Samurai or Greek Heroes? He did talk about those some time ago, but I don't know if they are still in the pipeline...

Guys,

  We actually pinged Stafford about using Pendragon for a far-future neo-feudal game that may or may not be related to the other thread I started a coupla weeks ago...  

  He responded that he thought it sounded quite interesting, but that he did not make the decisions concerning Pendragon these days, and forwarded our project proposal to the Stewart Wieck, and he responded on 21 NOV 2012.  So stuff is still rolling...

Quote from: Ruben;602745There are still Pendagron books being released regularly, like the Book of Entourage, or this one : http://nocturnal-media.com/forum/index.php?topic=1706.0

Or do you mean other KAP adaptations for Samurai or Greek Heroes? He did talk about those some time ago, but I don't know if they are still in the pipeline...

No, I just had no clue what Stafford was up to lately.

RPGPundit

Hello all,

After a very long period of silence, I'm proud to announce that PALADIN will be launched on KickStarter next month.

The book of about 450 pages contains:

1. Character Creation
2. The Past (a year-by-year account from 700 to 767, the history of your character's grand-father and father)
3. Personality and Passions
4. Reputation: Glory and Attitudes (Attitudes are like reversed passions, i.e. it shows how others feel about your character)
5. Skills
6. General Mechanics
7. Combat
8. Mass Combat
9. Magic (religious magic for players)
10. The Winter Phase
11. Ambitions and Ideals
12. Wealth and Treasure
13. Frankish Society
14. Frankland
15. The Future (a year-by-year account of Charlemagne's reign from 768 to 814)
16. NPCs
17. Foreign Cultures
18. Opponents and Creatures
19. Adventures (2 complete adventures and 18 short-forms)

It's a bit like the Great Pendragon Campaign in the sense that it has the complete chronology covering over a century of important events and the adventure ideas that go with them. The chronology incorporates almost all extant chansons de geste into one coherent time line -- something which has never been done before.

Afterwards, there are a dozen full-sized adventures ready for publication, mostly adaptations from the original chansons, like "The Song of Roland", "The Conquest of Orange", "Karel ende Elegast", "Huon of Bordeaux", "Gaydon", etc.

Sounds really cool!

Definitely has my interest.
(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/walkingdead/images/3/3f/Shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg)

Very interested, indeed.

Good to hear it's finally coming out, been waiting on this since it was originally announced.

Is this supposed to be a historical re-enactment game?

Sounds great. All the fun of Pendragon but without relentless Monty Python jokes. It's got me sold.

This isn't understated anymore.  You should be shouting this from the rooftops!

Make sure to keep us up to date.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;942018Is this supposed to be a historical re-enactment game?

No, it's like King Arthur Pendragon but for the legendary Charlemagne and his paladins, taken from the (mostly French and mostly 12th-century) chansons de geste.

Quote from: Ruben;942164No, it's like King Arthur Pendragon but for the legendary Charlemagne and his paladins, taken from the (mostly French and mostly 12th-century) chansons de geste.

I see.  I usually get leery of having a timeline already set up for what happens in the setting, usually means it's a historical fantasy re-enactment game in my experience, and I feel restricted by those, hence my dislike.

This might be my first foray into Pendragon.

It's been a long time coming...

Quote from: Christopher Brady;942172I see.  I usually get leery of having a timeline already set up for what happens in the setting, usually means it's a historical fantasy re-enactment game in my experience, and I feel restricted by those, hence my dislike.

I get this. But my own view (https://talestoastound.wordpress.com/2015/11/03/king-arthur-pendragon-the-player-knights-and-the-broader-story/) is that it isn't that big a deal... and kind of helpful.

The short version is that playing Knights in a timeline like The Great Pendragon Campaign is like playing GIs in a game set in WWII. Yes, the grand details are already mapped out. But in such a game you're focusing on those soldiers, with their choices and actions. And their choices and actions are given more meaning by being set against the backdrop of the grand details that everyone already knows.

Not at all everyone's cup of tea. But I do like it.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;942187I get this. But my own view (https://talestoastound.wordpress.com/2015/11/03/king-arthur-pendragon-the-player-knights-and-the-broader-story/) is that it isn't that big a deal... and kind of helpful.

The short version is that playing Knights in a timeline like The Great Pendragon Campaign is like playing GIs in a game set in WWII. Yes, the grand details are already mapped out. But in such a game you're focusing on those soldiers, with their choices and actions. And their choices and actions are given more meaning by being set against the backdrop of the grand details that everyone already knows.

Not at all everyone's cup of tea. But I do like it.

My crew, and again, this is MY experience, and MY friends, want to have their choices MEAN something.  And historical re-enactment means no, not in the grand scheme of things.

We prefer backstory and then let us loose into the world.  And if Paladins allows to do that too, then perfect.  But if not, and some games do that, I'll have to pass.

This is an interesting point about historical games. I try to err on the side, in the rare times I do them, to allow PC's change the course of history. While there is certain obvious exhilaration at having your PC's present at major historical events - no doubt. I like allowing them to have fun with it. If possible be intertwined with events without necessarily knowing. Or be the "real reason" why certain things happened as opposed to what history books tell us.

HBO's Rome is a good example of what I shoot for.

Christopher Brady, I suspect King Arthur Pendragon is not a game for you and your friends at all. (I think the Traits and Passions rules would drive you guys nuts.)

For anyone else, a note about the game:

It is not a historical re-enactment game. First, it isn't history. The game at it's core is modeled on Thomas Malory's Le Morte D'Arthur... which is of course fiction.

But second, and more importantly, Le Morte D'Arthur focuses not on Arthur but is a series of separate tales about lives and deaths of the other knights of the land.

In Pendragon the characters are knights inserted into the spaces between those tales. Whole new stories are created as the Players and Referee build out the lives of the PCs, and then, when they die, the children of the PCs, and so on. There are plenty of choices, and lots of decisions to be made. But the main decisions are about the fate of the character himself: what sort of knight will he be before he dies. (For death comes to every knight in Pendragon.)

Having the future history mapped out is good since it provides a template of "what happens if the PCs do nothing." Since PCs always do something it helps you figure out what's going on around them once they change things.

For example if you're writing a history of what would've happened if William the Conqueror had died in 1065 you need to read post conquest history to give your alternate history something to compare itself to.

Rock on! Charlemagne sounds awesome even with no data besides my limited knowledge of history.

If you want a good analogy for how a roleplaying campaign could exist in an historical setting, consider Inglorious Basterds. The setting starts in a version of France some time around D-Day and within a few days one of the PC's is machine gunning Hitler in the face. That would fit perfectly well in a game of Behind Enemy Lines (which I recommend above any WW2 game you happen to be playing!).

Quote from: Larsdangly;942278If you want a good analogy for how a roleplaying campaign could exist in an historical setting, consider Inglorious Basterds. The setting starts in a version of France some time around D-Day and within a few days one of the PC's is machine gunning Hitler in the face. That would fit perfectly well in a game of Behind Enemy Lines (which I recommend above any WW2 game you happen to be playing!).

Yup. And in cases like that a "future history" is very useful even if the PCs scramble it as it gives you a template to work off of.

Chapter 15 - The Future
This chapter is intended for Gamemasters only. It holds an extensive Frankish chronology based on both history and the chansons de geste, starting with the first year of Charlemagne’s reign. It is meant as an inspiration for scenarios of all sorts, as well as an illustration of the game’s themes and possible background stories and intrigues. Information about summer and autumn harvests (important for the Winter Phase) is given at the end of each year.

I've been looking forward to this!

Ruben, the Kickstarter launch date is next month. When is the projected delivery date for the product itself? I can't wait!

I wish I knew. Only Stewart Wieck (Nocturnal Media) can tell us and for the moment he hasn't.

Ok cool, was just curious, you know, for planning purposes. :)

The KickStarter launch date for PALADIN is now definitely April 20.

Quote from: The Butcher;380659Sounds like a Traveller hack waiting to happen. ;)

Already done, was called Mercator Traveller or something like that. I downloaded it once upon a time.

Quote from: Ruben;948113The KickStarter launch date for PALADIN is now definitely April 20.

Is this still happening? Checked on Kickstarter today and no sign.

Quote from: (un)reason;959584Is this still happening? Checked on Kickstarter today and no sign.

Some small contractual issues with the maps and illustrations. Stewart Wieck will hopefully sort things out soon and get things rolling...

Let me know if this game ever becomes a reality I can buy as I like Pendragon and I like the Song of Roland. Sounds neat.

Well I'll be damned.  Thought it would never happen.  I'm still not sure I believe it. If it goes, I'm all in.

Quote from: Madprofessor;959619Well I'll be damned.  Thought it would never happen.  I'm still not sure I believe it. If it goes, I'm all in.

Agreed.

Hooray! After a five and a half years wait (!), the KS is now finally and definitely set on Tuesday June 27!

http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2781-Update-on-Coming-Items&p=24602&viewfull=1#post24602

Wow, that's great. Can't wait till this exists as a real book.

Quote from: Dumarest;968294Wow, that's great. Can't wait till this exists as a real book.

Very sad news : Stewart Wieck passed away suddenly and unexpectedly yesterday, June 23.

http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2968-Oh-Dear&p=24662&viewfull=1#post24662

Quote from: Ruben;971110Very sad news : Stewart Wieck passed away suddenly and unexpectedly yesterday, June 23.

http://nocturnalmediaforum.com/iecarus/forum/showthread.php?2968-Oh-Dear&p=24662&viewfull=1#post24662

Very sad news.

It is very unfortunate. I hope that the work on the new Pendragon material will keep going forward.

Quote from: RPGPundit;971708It is very unfortunate. I hope that the work on the new Pendragon material will keep going forward.

Stewart's brother Steve, who's taking over part of the editorial work, Greg Stafford and Alan Bahr from Nocturnal assure me that this is indeed the case for Paladin and also for the almost finished Pendragon stuff. More news soon...

Quote from: Ruben;972456Stewart's brother Steve, who's taking over part of the editorial work, Greg Stafford and Alan Bahr from Nocturnal assure me that this is indeed the case for Paladin and also for the almost finished Pendragon stuff. More news soon...

That's good to hear.

Greg Stafford just announced that the Paladins of Charlemagne kickstarter will go live on July 18th.

Excellent.

Good news! I have no doubt it'll do well.

Hello all,

Thank you for your patience. The project went online two days ago and funded itself within a few hours. As I write, already four stretch goals (adventures) have been unlocked.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nocturnalmedia/paladin-warriors-of-charlemagne

Cheers,
Ruben

Quote from: Ruben;976790Hello all,

Thank you for your patience. The project went online two days ago and funded itself within a few hours. As I write, already four stretch goals (adventures) have been unlocked.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nocturnalmedia/paladin-warriors-of-charlemagne

Cheers,
Ruben

Congratulations!

By far one of my favourite systems.

//Panjumanju

And a fifth has been unlocked in the fourteen hours since.

Eagerly backed. Paiens ont tort et Chretiens ont droit. ;)

Unsurprising that it was a success; nevertheless, congratulations!

Quote from: RPGPundit;977250Unsurprising that it was a success; nevertheless, congratulations!

Thanks. Now let's hope all the stretch goals get unlocked.
I'm already working on the adventures again!

When it comes out, please keep me in mind for sending a Review copy.

Quote from: RPGPundit;978025When it comes out, please keep me in mind for sending a Review copy.

You're already on the list, of course ;o)

Quote from: Ruben;978028You're already on the list, of course ;o)

Awesome!

Took a look at this for the first time today and backed. What a great deal for what looks like a quality game.

I'm in it looks great!

It seems like decades ago the idea of a KAP adaptation for Charlemagne was first floated. Very glad to see it happening.