Quote from: blakkieAre you sure? What is the sound of solo-roleplaying?

There's nothing solo about MMORGPS. I mean, you can play by yourself but as someone who knows some hardcore MMO players, here's the thing a lot of us casual players miss:

1. What keeps the hardcore player coming back (we're talking 4-6 hours a day here) is their connections to their guild. In other words, to other players.

2. Once you get to high level in WoW, finding a guild and raiding dungeons in groups is essential.

So there's a lot of *interaction* built into the MMO experience. The fact that people don't create a personality for their characters or speak in character... well, grab a random group from a game store or on a college campus and run a TTRPG, and see what % of players are interested in that anyway.

A fair % of gamers want a tactical RPG experience where they kill things, get better stuff and power up. And even the ones who don't PREFER that are willing to settle for it.

Also, remember Ryan Dancey said that not having transportation and not having a lot of money for entertainment make you more likely to start gaming (thankfully some of us continue playing once we have money lol).

Well those people can now play from home for 20 bucks a month.

So that's another way the MMO targets the same demographic.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckThere's nothing solo about MMORGPS. I mean, you can play by yourself but as someone who knows some hardcore MMO players, here's the thing a lot of us casual players miss:

I just think you are missing a lot of imagining that's happening with no typing.  Even with the gearheads.  There is a hell of a lot of what passes for P&P 'roleplaying'.

EDIT: Incidentally:

QuoteWell those people can now play from home for 20 bucks a month.

Plus several hundred invested in a computer, depending upon the hardware requirements of the software.

Ryan mostly says in that regard:

There are enough people for whom WoW is good enough. Not better, but good enough to be a time and money = attention sink.

In reference to a program discussed by the host wherein WotC is "sponsoring" college gaming groups, Ryan cites studies suggesting that RPG participation goes up when a population when mobility and disposable income are low.

Quote from: blakkiePlus several hundred invested in a computer, depending upon the hardware requirements of the software.

Sure, but the requirements for Wow are pretty low.

Everything has a buy-in.

No, the buy-in for WoW is not as low as D&D or a TTRPG. But it is well within the means of most middle class people, even at a young age. Edit: For example, I just checked, my 10 year old neice has a hand-me-down computer capable of running WoW, with her own wireless connection to home network DSL.

So Wow offers a good enough play experience, with more convenience (play without leaving home, play any time of the day or night as much as you want) at a higher price.

And its player base is expanding rapidly.

As opposed to TTRPGs, whose player base is stagnating, possibly contracting.

Also, that higher buy-in and paying to play each month allows MMO companies to attract more top-tier designers. That's another way in which MMOs cannibalize TTRPGs.

Note:  That money for the higher buy-in doesn't go to Blizzard. The monthly income sure helps though.

MMOs are stealing RPG authors away? Like who? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

I think it's easy for someone who plays a lot of WoW to think that WoW is killing off tabletop RPGs. The thing is, we're seeing second tier publishers die. Why is that? If it's WoW, why are those publishers getting hammered, while the top and low end of the spectrum haven't seen similar damage?

I'm not about to say that WoW has zero effect on RPGs, but I think it's overstating the case to say they're killing RPGs. The game has been out for three years now. If it's killing all RPGs, it's being a bit slow about it.

If WoW was a console game, I think I'd be more worried. PC gaming has been on the decline for years. It's a shadow of the console market. The research I've seen says that the average WoW player is 27. If you're Blizzard, how happy are you about that? Are RPGs really losing young players to MMOs, or are we losing older players who will transition out of gaming regardless of WoW?

Quote from: mearlsMMOs are stealing RPG authors away? Like who? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

I have no firsthand data on this. My source is Ryan Dancey, who said it during the FTB interview. I was trusting his knowledge of the market.

My impression wasn't that he was talking about top notch designers leaving the hobby, but never entering the hobby in the first place. In other words, the "future Monte" or the "future Mike Mearls" doesn't enter the hobby in the first place. That was my reading of what he was saying anyway.

But again, basically my source was that I heard Dancey say it and he usually seems to know stuff.

The kids (if my kids and their friends are any indication) don't play WoW. They play Battleon.

Constantly.

http://battleon.com

Quote from: mearlsMMOs are stealing RPG authors away? Like who? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head.

Lucien Soulban of White Wolf is now only doing video game writing.  He was the line editor and main creative force of Orpheus.  For the video game industry he did the story development and/or wrote the story for God of War.

I heard this on an interview with him available here.

In the same interview is a guy or two from Dream Pod 9, apparently all of them went into the computer games industry.

A few names I have heard trasitioned to doing work in computer gaming in some way:

Colin McComb
John Wick
Sandy Petersen

Two of which (I'll let you guess which) I consider monumental RPG design talents.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadA few names I have heard trasitioned to doing work in computer gaming in some way:

Colin McComb
John Wick
Sandy Petersen

Two of which (I'll let you guess which) I consider monumental RPG design talents.

I've only heard of the latter two, so naturally I assume it's them.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityI've only heard of the latter two, so naturally I assume it's them.

I knew someone'd say that. No, for me it's Colin (one of the masterminds behind Planescape) and Sandy.

Edit: Speaking of Planescape, Zeb Cook moved on to do some computer game work too, didn't he?

Quote from: joewolzIn the same interview is a guy or two from Dream Pod 9, apparently all of them went into the computer games industry.

I listened to part of that podcast too the other day... not a fun experience in many ways... but yes, that was Marc Vezina of DP9, and as far as I know around 75% of their creative personnel went on to work for Ubisoft et al.

Other names that come to mind--

Greg Costikyan

Erick Wujcik (temporarily?)

John Tynes (he was working on this super-high-end Pirates game, what happened to that?)

Paul Jaquays

But Mike was asking about MMORPGs, and I don't know anyone working on those.

Well... except for, in a way, the entire staff of White Wolf.

You can add Dave Wesely if you want to go back a ways to the era when the boardgame/RPG divide wasn't so well defined--he transitioned from P&P to computers around 1980.