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Mechanics for conflict resolution other than physical combat

Started by psiconauta_retro, August 21, 2022, 09:03:00 AM

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Visitor Q

#15
August 22, 2022, 05:58:56 AM
Quote from: jhkim on August 22, 2022, 03:32:00 AM
Quote from: Wisithir on August 21, 2022, 11:02:55 PM
From https://theangrygm.com/?s=social&id=6261

Quote from: AngryGM
Once upon a time – and for a very long time – we gamers didn't need or want rules for social interaction. Hell, we didn't feel like we needed rules for a lot of things. We liked the fact that the game was open-ended and relied on our imaginations first and rules and mechanics a distant second.

There have been plenty of RPGs with detailed mechanics for social interaction since at least the early 1980s. James Bond 007 had plenty of social encounter rules. Champions had Presence attacks. AD&D had a number of separate systems for henchmen, morale, reactions, and others.

I get ticked off at these characterizations about gamers "once upon a time" as if all old-school gamers were the same. There were a huge variety of games and gamers from early on in the 1970s and 1980s. It's not like social mechanics were a new thing in the 2000s or 2010s.

I personally prefer mechanics that don't treat social resolution like combat resolution. Succeeding in a social challenge often means building understanding between parties, rather than one side winning and another side losing. I think Burning Wheel's "Duel of Wits" is a good mechanic for limited cases of win-vs-lose like arguing a court case or similar. But social challenges more broadly should more often not be win-vs-lose.

Added to this is that in practice Win-Lose Social Resolution Mechanics can slide into characters having almost supernatural powers of persuasion via manipulation of the specific rules.

I prefer Social Interaction mechanics to focus on altering an NPCs disposition towards a PC rather than the specific point being discussed (RAW this is how it works in Dark Heresy and other FFG WH40K systems).

This makes it easier for the GM to veto or steer certain persuasion attempts that are effectively impossible (or other interactions. Persuasion is just an example).

BoxCrayonTales

#16
August 22, 2022, 11:02:48 AM
Quote from: Visitor Q on August 22, 2022, 05:58:56 AM
Quote from: jhkim on August 22, 2022, 03:32:00 AM
Quote from: Wisithir on August 21, 2022, 11:02:55 PM
From https://theangrygm.com/?s=social&id=6261

Quote from: AngryGM
Once upon a time – and for a very long time – we gamers didn't need or want rules for social interaction. Hell, we didn't feel like we needed rules for a lot of things. We liked the fact that the game was open-ended and relied on our imaginations first and rules and mechanics a distant second.

There have been plenty of RPGs with detailed mechanics for social interaction since at least the early 1980s. James Bond 007 had plenty of social encounter rules. Champions had Presence attacks. AD&D had a number of separate systems for henchmen, morale, reactions, and others.

I get ticked off at these characterizations about gamers "once upon a time" as if all old-school gamers were the same. There were a huge variety of games and gamers from early on in the 1970s and 1980s. It's not like social mechanics were a new thing in the 2000s or 2010s.

I personally prefer mechanics that don't treat social resolution like combat resolution. Succeeding in a social challenge often means building understanding between parties, rather than one side winning and another side losing. I think Burning Wheel's "Duel of Wits" is a good mechanic for limited cases of win-vs-lose like arguing a court case or similar. But social challenges more broadly should more often not be win-vs-lose.

Added to this is that in practice Win-Lose Social Resolution Mechanics can slide into characters having almost supernatural powers of persuasion via manipulation of the specific rules.

I prefer Social Interaction mechanics to focus on altering an NPCs disposition towards a PC rather than the specific point being discussed (RAW this is how it works in Dark Heresy and other FFG WH40K systems).

This makes it easier for the GM to veto or steer certain persuasion attempts that are effectively impossible (or other interactions. Persuasion is just an example).
Agreed.

I've heard anecdotes where Exalted players would casually murder shopkeepers and then shoplift to avoid using the social combat mechanic to haggle because it was so annoying. I have no way to verify it, and I think if things get to that point then the problem lies with the group for using such a stupid system in the first place. Speaking of, WW wrote around a half-dozen social combat mechanics scattered across their books. Unsurprisingly, they fall into all the traps you would expect: adversarial design, clunky design, pointlessly time wasting, square peg round hole, etc.
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