Daywalking vampires exist in 5th Edition now.

It's an option for Thin Bloods who have gained powers that make them playable.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1066097Daywalking vampires exist in 5th Edition now.

It's an option for Thin Bloods who have gained powers that make them playable.

IIRC, there is also a higher-end Fortitude power that allows some sunlight exposure.

Do their skin sparkle like diamonds in the sun?

Quote from: CTPhipps;1066097Daywalking vampires exist in 5th Edition now.

It's an option for Thin Bloods who have gained powers that make them playable.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1066100IIRC, there is also a higher-end Fortitude power that allows some sunlight exposure.

Like I said in the other thread, emulating things taken for granted in other vampire fiction requires jumping through hoops in this game. Calling itself Vampire when it can't emulate any other vampire fiction is false advertising.

By contrast, D&D can emulate a lot of fantasy fiction that isn't directly influenced by it. Sometimes you might have to rely on third-party products if you want martials who can do more than hit stuff or casters that aren't overpowered, but there's so many options that you can't keep track.

Quote from: tenbones;1066102Do their skin sparkle like diamonds in the sun?

I don't know, maybe? I'm fine with vampires walking around during the daytime so long as they have other weaknesses to explain why they haven't taken over the world long ago. Like needing to sleep in the soil of their grave, unable to cross running water under their own power, repelled by particular plants, etc.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1066107Like I said in the other thread, emulating things taken for granted in other vampire fiction requires jumping through hoops in this game. Calling itself Vampire when it can't emulate any other vampire fiction is false advertising.

By contrast, D&D can emulate a lot of fantasy fiction that isn't directly influenced by it. Sometimes you might have to rely on third-party products if you want martials who can do more than hit stuff or casters that aren't overpowered, but there's so many options that you can't keep track.

I don't know, maybe? I'm fine with vampires walking around during the daytime so long as they have other weaknesses to explain why they haven't taken over the world long ago. Like needing to sleep in the soil of their grave, unable to cross running water under their own power, repelled by particular plants, etc.

Sorry, I'm calling bullshit.

V:TM does an amazing job of replicating most vampire experiences of the 90s and is working to incorporate the 21st century.

However, quite a bit of vampire shit is contradictory.

"You can't do a daywalking vampire!" isn't an argument if other vampries explode in the sun.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1066122Sorry, I'm calling bullshit.

V:TM does an amazing job of replicating most vampire experiences of the 90s and is working to incorporate the 21st century.

However, quite a bit of vampire shit is contradictory.

"You can't do a daywalking vampire!" isn't an argument if other vampries explode in the sun.

Calling "bullshit" is not a viable argument. The problem here is that you are thinking in terms of "all vampires should follow the same rules aside from clan aptitudes/weaknesses," whereas I don't agree with that at all. That is an extreme square peg round hole problem that has afflicted the game since day one.

There are a bazillion vampire stories out there. If you want a remotely comprehensive overview, there is a blog full of hundreds of reviews of vampire-related media @ http://taliesinttlg.blogspot.com/ . Saying VTM can't capture even a tiny fraction of that variety, regardless of what decade you restrict your survey to, is like saying water is wet. This isn't a negative value judgment, but a statement of simple fact. VTM is arbitrarily restrictive. I consider that a con and it is one of the many reasons, aside from the terrible ST rules, that I won't engage with VTM.

VTM doesn't replicate any vampire experiences except that created specifically for the game itself. It is a hodgepodge of some vampire cliches, ideas ripped off from other writers, and a few idiosyncrasies unique to Rein-Hagen. Unless you hack the rules, you cannot emulate Anne Rice, The Lost Boys, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or any vampire fiction that is not VTM. Things like "blood magic" or "high level disciplines" or "obscure merits/flaws" are poor excuses.

That is across the history of fiction, not the 90s specifically. Dracula could scale walls, Carmilla could pass through locked doors, the lost boys could fly, folkloric vampires could do all sorts of crazy things, etc. 21st century fiction doesn't add anything new so much as remix what has already come before. VTM can't do those things without jumping through arbitrarily hoops and filler, if at all. GURPS Blood Types, another 90s book, is good example of what I mean when I am asking for a comprehensive vampire roleplaying experience. At one point it suggests a setup in which many different types of vampires with wildly different natures coexist, using the point buy system to balance the PCs.

All Flesh Must Be Eaten was more creative in its approach to zombies. Rather than forcing all zombies to follow one highly specific set of rules, it provides a point buy system for GMs to create their own zombie varieties and provides numerous example settings. Night's Black Agents does something similar for vampires, them being antagonists therein and all.

To be fair, the 21st Century did do something new to Vampires.  They made them SPARKLE.










...I never said it was a GOOD new thing...

No Tabletop Game is going to be able to do everything unless it is GURPS

and there's a reason people don't play GURPS.

They want settings and settings require rules.

You can't play the Lord of the Rings in Dragonlance or the Forgotten Realms.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1066132To be fair, the 21st Century did do something new to Vampires.  They made them SPARKLE.










...I never said it was a GOOD new thing...

Most western vampire media doesn't impress me anymore due to the limited SFX budgets and the generally low quality of most of these movies in general. The Strain reintroduced the toothed tongue vampires from certain folklore, but the plot was terrible.

Japanese cartoons don't do any better in the plot department, but the SFX are generally much better due a lack of live actors.

Black Blood Brothers looks like it was directly inspired by Vampire: The Masquerade, what with mentioning different bloodlines with different powers and weaknesses. It is still vastly more creative than VtM, because it includes things like vampires that aren't harmed by sunlight and vampires that are pathogenic and can even infect other vampires.

The vampires in Tsukihime get incredibly weird. One of them is a mobile forest (based on the Jubokko, vampire trees of Japanese folklore) and another is a mass of 666 demons.

Blood Blockade Battlefront has extremely deadly, hostile and voracious vampires.

There's loads more examples though, but that would be really long.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1066136No Tabletop Game is going to be able to do everything unless it is GURPS

and there's a reason people don't play GURPS.

They want settings and settings require rules.

You can't play the Lord of the Rings in Dragonlance or the Forgotten Realms.

All three are campaign settings for the D&D rules. Anne Rice, Buffy, and Lost Boys are NOT campaign settings for VTM. Your comparison falls flat.

Requiem did have a antagonist book where it featured other types of vampires with rules to make them.  Combine that with Mirrors you got something golden.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1066144Requiem did have a antagonist book where it featured other types of vampires with rules to make them.  Combine that with Mirrors you got something golden.

That isn't a good solution.

The Night Horrors book presented a few examples of vampires other than the generic pseudo-Ricean kind, such as a few flavors of Aswang, but they didn't actually provide guidelines for making your own. The book is about as useful as any other homebrew you could find on the internet.

Even Mirrors cannot salvage the mess that is the ST rules. You might as well pick a new system.

Complaining is getting tiresome. Here's somebody else's attempt at explaining vampire bloodlines in the Wold Newton Universe: http://wnuvampires.blogspot.com/2011/10/upon-classification-of-vampires.html

Long story short, the author just looked at recurring tropes in vampire media and sorted similar vampires into groups. White Wolf is explicitly referenced as existing in-universe and making a roleplaying about vampires (which isn't true to in-universe vampires though).

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1066140All three are campaign settings for the D&D rules. Anne Rice, Buffy, and Lost Boys are NOT campaign settings for VTM. Your comparison falls flat.

No, The World of Darkness is a campaign setting for the Storyteller System and gives you the chance to play similar monsters to them.

Like you can play LIKE the Lord of the Rings in the Realms.

But it's own unique property.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1066160No, The World of Darkness is a campaign setting for the Storyteller System and gives you the chance to play similar monsters to them.

Like you can play LIKE the Lord of the Rings in the Realms.

But it's own unique property.

Middle Earth has literally been licensed as a D&D campaign setting. It has all sorts of special rules to promote the flavor of Tolkien's works.

VTM doesn't support anything besides its own idiosyncrasies unless you hack the rules. World of Darkness is more or less synonymous with Storyteller, and Chronicles isn't very different when it comes to vampires unless you are one of the crazy people fighting the edition wars.

Your comparison still falls flat.