Quote from: ShieldWife;1066065Now, if we could get a "red pilled" WoD rather than a "woke" one then I might be on board.

I cannot guarantee "red pilled", but I am working on "political free" WoD named The Weird Hack.  Basic rules is only a few pages so far and it uses a roll down d20 for most rolls.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1065829Yes, Chicago by Night is doing double-duty as a city sourcebook as well as the Lasombra Clanbook for 5E.

It will include loresheets for Clan Lasombra, the stats for Talley the Hound, an explanation of what the Sabbat have been up to during the Gehenna War, why it was a REALLY bad idea to go Antediluvian hunting, and their current status.

Oh and their new Discipline of Oblivion which combines shadow casting with access to the Underworld.

I'm sure replacing Obtenebration will piss off a lot of fans. I don't particularly care. I think it is odd that they are getting what is essentially necromancy given what I know about the WoD cosmology, but I'm not sure what I would do differently given that they are retconning the cosmology rather than simply continuing the metaplot.

What I actually dislike is the grossly incorrect use of the term "underworld" to refer to ghostly existence rather than the actual afterlife. In every religion with an afterlife, ghosts by definition do not enter it. They are trapped in the land of the living. (BTW, the WoD cosmology is generally confusing anyway and I was happy that CoD tried to simplify it before they made the idiotic decision to recreate the stupid onion cosmology.)

Quote from: ShieldWife;1066065Yeah, that is my issue. When ever I hear something interesting about the new edition of Vampire, I have to remind myself that I don't want any of my money going to proselytize leftist ideology. The developers have said that they aren't interested in having me as a customer and I'll respect their wishes.

Now, if we could get a "red pilled" WoD rather than a "woke" one then I might be on board.

White Wolf books were always politically progressive for years before it was fashionable on social media. IIRC, years ago one of the writers said on their blog that they shoehorn gay characters whenever they get the chance in order to make a political statement or something.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1066142I cannot guarantee "red pilled", but I am working on "political free" WoD named The Weird Hack.  Basic rules is only a few pages so far and it uses a roll down d20 for most rolls.

Given the way that things seem to be going now, you may not be the only person publishing a heartbreaker or retroclone in the next few years. Paradox clearly doesn't like the way that the PnP fractured the community and generally made a mess of the IP, but they clearly don't seem to care for maintaining the existing community either given that video games are way more profitable.

QuoteGiven the way that things seem to be going now, you may not be the only person publishing a heartbreaker or retroclone in the next few years. Paradox clearly doesn't like the way that the PnP fractured the community and generally made a mess of the IP, but they clearly don't seem to care for maintaining the existing community either given that video games are way more profitable.

Given they've given it over to Onyx Path, I think the blood flow is staunched.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1066142I cannot guarantee "red pilled", but I am working on "political free" WoD named The Weird Hack.  Basic rules is only a few pages so far and it uses a roll down d20 for most rolls.

That's nice and all but you can't do Gothic Punk without politics.

Rich vs. Poor vampires was what attracted me to the game in the first place.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1066157Given they've given it over to Onyx Path, I think the blood flow is staunched.

Onyx Path is incompetent at game design. They will inevitably undo all that V5 accomplished.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1066149I'm sure replacing Obtenebration will piss off a lot of fans. I don't particularly care.

Yes lets remove the one group of powers that actually made the clan interesting.  That is just puuuuuuuure genius.  Sarcasm at the side your once again correct BoxCrayonTales.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1066149White Wolf books were always politically progressive for years before it was fashionable on social media. IIRC, years ago one of the writers said on their blog that they shoehorn gay characters whenever they get the chance in order to make a political statement or something.

Which is the what I want to avoid.  People hate politics that is shoved down their throats.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1066149Given the way that things seem to be going now, you may not be the only person publishing a heartbreaker or retroclone in the next few years. Paradox clearly doesn't like the way that the PnP fractured the community and generally made a mess of the IP, but they clearly don't seem to care for maintaining the existing community either given that video games are way more profitable.

To be fair I don't like the World of Darkness community either.  Invite those people in and suddenly you have rpg.net all over again.

Now those who just want urban fantasy and trench coats with katanas are welcome.  Those who just want to game are most certainly welcome.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1066157That's nice and all but you can't do Gothic Punk without politics.

By political free I mean devoid of real life politics.  In game politics is one thing, but politics outside the game world need to fuck off.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1066170Yes lets remove the one group of powers that actually made the clan interesting.  That is just puuuuuuuure genius.  Sarcasm at the side your once again correct BoxCrayonTales.

I gave the wrong impression. It wasn't replaced so much as expanded to include necromancy or something. Based on the new name, I suspect Paradox is trying to tie the Lasombra into Oblivion from Wraith as part of their "one world of darkness" plan.

Onyx Path is going to screw things up unless Paradox maintains a lot of oversight.

Necromancy is a Givonni thing though.  Let Lasombra play with shadows and let the ghost business be handled by the Givonni.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1066174Necromancy is a Givonni thing though.  Let Lasombra play with shadows and let the ghost business be handled by the Givonni.

Why? I don't see a reason to agree with you on this.

In fact, I'm happy that Paradox has the balls to defy tradition like this. There will be so much manbaby tears.

Doesn't make the clan less unique?

Quote from: Snowman0147;1066184Doesn't make the clan less unique?

Disciplines work very differently in V5. They aren't going to bloat into a bazillion this time. We saw this when dementia was folded into domination.

Also, I really want to see the edition war get worse. I want to see everything go up in flames because that might end WoD's monopoly over the market. Monopolies are bad for customers.

They're going to break 100K tonight on the Kickstarter.

So, there will be three supplements for Chicago by Night.

1. The actual book
2. The Chicago Folio with in-universe documents plus some missing characters
3. Let the Streets Run Red with 4 adventures as well as details on Milwaukee and Indianpolis plus rural Indiana and Gary

It's hit 100K!

I forgot to say this before, but the decision to merge necromancy and obtenebration into oblivion seems to be pretty obviously based on the Mage: The Awakening's arcanum of death. In that system death includes things like giving physical substance to shadows, which in Ascension is placed under the sphere of forces even though it has pretty much nothing to deal with real physics and makes about as much sense as arguing forces could give physical substance to your reflection in the mirror. Quite honestly, the arcanum/sphere of prime makes the most sense to create shadow-stuff after applying the Awakening addition of it being able to create free-standing illusions... at lot like D&D's phantasmal magic, actually.

I still think the discipline system wasn't as refined as they could have made it. I get combining Majesty and Nightmare into Presence (then forcing learners to choose one) in the same way that other extraneous disciplines are being folded, but Nosferatu having powers over fear and nightmares and such makes them so much more evocative in my opinion. During my brief periods of trying to salvage and expand the bloodline concepts, I entertained giving the 1e/2e Gaki's nightmare world discipline to the Nosferatu or something along those lines. I entertained nightmare-flavored traits of all sorts, like nightmare servants and such.

Of course I found that this sort of creativity works better in a different system entirely.

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-classic-world-of-darkness/vampire-the-masquerade/1271417-5e-chicago-by-night-manuscript-review?fbclid=IwAR0mME8pypuLix26caLLa0IDfQUuLahkGwLRDxxRnnF9WHPA0EKv0lISfKI

I thought I'd share this in the final hours of the Kickstarter because we've finally got a complete view of what the book's interior. We may not have the formatting or art and there will undoubtedly be some editing done but, overall, we know what Chicago by Night 5E is going to look like and what material it contains.

For those who don't know why Chicago by Night is important, the answer is that it was the first city-book for Vampire: The Masquerade and established a large part of what would become the "default" tone of how Vampire: The Masquerade would be played. If you ever wondered why Sheriffs exist, Deputies/Hounds, Harpies, and the default of a prickish Ventrue Prince determined to ruin your day then CBN is the reason. Much of what we love in Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines is a combination of Chicago by Night-esque gameplay with the heavier occult adventure-gaming style of later editions.

Chicago, despite being the Waterdeep of the World of Darkness, didn't get updated for 3rd Edition or Revised. It did get a short update for Beckett's Jyhad Diary where we saw the Primogen ruling the city as well as Helena exposed as a Methuselah. It also had a new status quo hinted at in Rusted Veins that made me excited about the possibility of 5th Edition update. The book hit some small controversy when it was revealed that the Lasombra Clan would be included in the book and that if you wanted to play them, you'd have to purchase a city book you might not normally be interested in--which is what's called good business in my view.

So, how is it?

It is very good. A real appeal of Chicago by Night 5E is that it manages to serve as a bridge between "classic" Vampire: The Masquerade and 5th Edition. There's the big changes like the fact the Tremere are answering to no one beyond the city level, the Second Inquisition is actively hunting people, and the Beckoning has claimed several Elders. However, for the most part, it's business as usual in the Second City and everything is from a street-vamp's perspective of the new world.

Kevin Jackson is the new prince of the city and perhaps one of the few characters who could match Lodin for being a potential ally as well as antagonist to the players. He's evolved past his gang roots and embraced modern technology as well as finance to be the youngest Prince in the Camarilla. However, the price for that is that he's cracking down massively on the Anarchs and murdering his fellow young Kindred by the dozens. It's Camarilla or bust and he has a very unexpected Sheriff.

The book centralizes its focus on the War of the Ages, which has always been central to Vampire: The Masquerade, and is one of the areas where 5E was criticized. In addition to the Elders who aren't Beckoned (Annabelle, Critias, and others) we have nasty Pro-Establishment Ancilla who have to be twice as conservative for half the respect. We also have a good contrast between the Anarchs with characters like Anita Wainwright, Gengis, Maldavis, Sweetie Pepper, and now Balthazar (?!) who represent the various shades of their cause.

Roughly half of the books' 40 NPCs are updates on classic characters. The other half are new, some having been in Chicago the entire time and the others being recent arrivals. We also get our first new Lasombra NPCs that are a contrast to the typical Sabbat shovelheads or psychotic religious fanatics. A Japanese hotel magnate, a deranged rabbi, and Talley the Hound are well done. We also get more stereotype-breaking Banu Haqim and Ministry characters. Indeed, it's a joke that the drug-dealing voodoo cult-running Marcel is considered a stereotype by the (former) Setites. My favorite new character may be Sun Che, who is a Wiccan good and love the Earth Tremere who may be a homcidal serial killer (or is just possessed).

The biggest benefit to the NPCs is the fact they are not just history and a personality description. Instead, each write-up contains "Plots", "Thralls", "Domains", and other vital information for fleshing them out as well as giving them information. They are also carefully selected to give us new information on things like the Second Inquisition and Beckoning without spoiling them. Helena has found a "cure" for the Beckoning in her view that is horrifying and yet appropriate for Gehenna. We also find out the Second Inquisition has a lot more fingers in the pies of vampire society than we ever expected with "Flyboy."

The city section of the book is effective for communicating how to run Chicago as a location as well as incorporating little bits of local flavor. They got Chicago natives to write this section and it shows, adding a level of authenticity to the entire proceeding. I also appreciate the focus on clubs for player characters to visit with Red No. 05, The Blue Velvet, and a return of the beloved Succubus Club. Do nerds like me wonder, "What happened to the Cave!?" Yes, yes we do but that's just me.

The depiction of the Lasombra was one of the things which readers were really looking forward to and the writers had an insurmountable task: why would the most fanatical leaders of the Sabbat leave the sect they rule? It's like the Ventrue defecting. Well, the answer surprisingly worked for me and incorporated the lore well enough that it not only seemed plausible but inevitable. Sabbat players can be content, though, that about half of them are leaving. I'm fond of the Lasombra's new discipline of Oblivion, which is mostly classic Obternation with the option of Necromantic rituals now. I think the Lasombra's weaknesses need to be tweaked, though, as some of it doesn't make much sense to me. I think at my table it'll just be, "you don't show up in mirrors and you show up as static on recording devices."

Kudos to Klara Horskjær Herbøl for writing the Chronicle "The Sacrifice" at the end, which is about the negotiations by the overeager Kevin Jackson (who just wants to show off for the Camarilla) to bring the Lasombra into the Camarilla. It incorporates just the right amount of Gothic Punk, canon characters, and twists to make it interesting. Plus, the player characters are a deciding factor in the future of the Camarilla. There's also a bunch of adventure hooks in the back of the book that are very easy to use if you don't have much prep time.

So, overall? I love this book. It's a blast from the past but also sets a nice tone for the future.

9.5/10