So my thought is, how do you approach using monsters that draw from a different culture than the ? i.e. Indian rakshasas in a European-based setting, or Egyptian mummies in a Chinese-based setting, or European vampires in an Incan-based setting, etc.

My current campaign is set in a fantasy world inspired by Andean/Incan history, which was originally created by my son. However, the fantasy features are drawn from standard D&D, which has a mix of mostly European with some mix of the Near East, India, and East Asia. I find that it's a difficult learning curve if the players need to deal with unfamiliar magic, monsters, and races as well as unfamiliar culture. So the standard elements of D&D makes it easier for players to jump into.

Still, sometimes stuff can seem out of place. I'm finding that my approach is to find a local hook - something in the local culture that the monsters connect to.

So, for example, the big monster in the last adventure was vampire spawn. I connected this to a night-worshipping cult based on an Andean creation myth that the Sun threw ashes in the face of the Moon to dim her shine. Since this reflects poorly on the Sun god Inti, who is the patron of the Empire, the myth became a basis of a cult that opposes the Empire.

Also, when dealing with dragonborn society and ancient dragonborn wraiths, I tied in the Amaru Aranway myth about two dragon gods that were fighting, and were turned into stone that became local mountain chains. In the campaign, these two represented the metallic and chromatic dragons (the equivalent of Bahamut and Tiamat).

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I was thinking about this process, and how it might apply for other mixes of settings. Do other people only have mummies if the PCs travel to an Egypt-like part of the setting? Or do you just drop a mummy into the local area without having any Egypt-like connection? Or do you find something more local-seeming that might connect to mummies?

IIRC the Incas had mummies.

How do I do it? I go balls deep and make the setting it's own thing, most of the X folklore monsters have their equivalent on other cultures. It just requires a LOT more work to stat the new monsters, classes, races and to re-skin them correctly.

If needed I borrow from nearby cultures that were kinda/sorta/not really simmilar, so I borrow from the Maya/Aztecs, etc.

Because there's a huge hole in our knowledge of many of those cultures I fill those with my imagination re-skining D&D monsters as something that COULD have been part of their culture/lore.

Remind me to send you a pdf of my notes for my High Fantasy/FantasySci-Fi Mayan inspired game, 3 PC races made up whole cloth by mangling the Maya creation myth, importing stuff from the Aztecs (We know a lot more about them) and giving it a deep bath into my imagination to make them sound/feel Maya. This includes changing the name and most of the time other stuff.

Yes, mummies are easy because the Incas did have mummies.  In fact, they would bring them out to consult with the priests and parade them through the streets.  There's a 5e/DCC module "Jungle Tomb of the Mummy Bride," that is set in a Meso-American inspired locale. 

In general it might depend on how your world is set up.  Obviously they can just come via magic gates or the Underdark.  For example, I have the goblin rats from Oriental Adventures as stand-ins for Warhammer skaven and they're infiltrating all the cities via the Underdark and sewers, though they originate in the pseudo-Asian lands in my setting.  Wizards could summon unusual monsters or they could be brought from distant lands to be put in some noble's zoo.  Or go with ancient alien theory.

Unless I'm just throwing something together for a lark or to give some mechanics a whirl, I don't use monsters from the culture straight, let alone something from another culture.  In a setting I'm bothering to put any thought into at all, that's not all that difficult, because I'm already inclined to use relatively few monsters integrated into the setting rather than even approaching kitchen sink. It also makes it a little easier that I tend to do settings that pull from several cultures at once, though again not unlimited. 

I'm interested in the setting being cohesive on its own terms, than caring how authentic it is to the source material. In my current setting, for example, I've got a creature that's got some Slavic influences (more Balkans than elsewhere), a tiny bit of Medieval Spanish influence, and a fair amount of the kitsune fox in it.  However, it wouldn't fit in any setting that tried to be accurate to those sources.

I recall a scene in Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword in which a Satyr appears in  Viking-age Scandinavia. He had been driven there by the rise of Christianity in his native lands.

"Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different. The good poet welds his theft into a whole of feeling which is unique, utterly different than that from which it is torn." - TS Eliot

My basic rule, which I realize is unhelpfully vague, is that the monster has to feel right in the setting.  Mummies feel right in deserts, pretty much no matter what the prevalent culture is.  Couatl's feel right in triple canopy rain forests.  If it doesn't feel right, and I still want to use it, then re-skinning generally works:  same stats, same ecology, same psychology, different appearance.  The only things that really cause me mental strain are unique creatures strongly linked to their setting/culture/myth when they show up elsewhere, frex Cerberus showing up in a Norse themed game.

I know what you go through, jhkim. I use a lot of culture analogs to rapidly create my campaign settings. For me the biggest aid is to find monster analogs, if possible, and if not tap into similar monsters that show variance by the culture that surrounds it.

For example, at first Occident dragons & Orient dragons, and similarly with undead vampire/hungry ghosts. But then similarly look how a culture re-reads things like 'undead' or 'goblins' and try to convey that. A lot of White Wolf material, for good and ill, attempts  to tap into those materials. And lastly, if there is no analog or variant -- and everything else is too alien -- I take a "social" monster and attach cultural trappings to keep things suitably in theme (and unexpected for lore munchkins).

So, my orcs & trolls of Thar by the Moonsea have more horseriding raiding parties... and they do underground longhouses if they can, and they like saunas, too. Emulates that Finnish, Karelia, Russian steppe mix. I'm sure I'd add a licorice flavored alcohol of some putrid sort (can you ferment blood? or just add blood to alcohol?) to make it suitably of that region, but also alien to that species. It shows a cross-cultural influence, despite hostilities, and individualizes my campaign monsters from bog standard.

Does that help? 

There is a fantastic book for CoC called "Terror Australis". Which I found to be super cool (I'm an Aussie) as it does a fantastic job of intertwining Aboriginal Myth with the CoC Setting and placing the entire game inside a regional location. I think it is kind of a template for "how to do it right" when creating content based on "real" myth.

Quote from: markmohrfield on January 27, 2023, 03:30:02 PM
I recall a scene in Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword in which a Satyr appears in  Viking-age Scandinavia. He had been driven there by the rise of Christianity in his native lands.

I'm confused, but then it's been many years since I read it.
I have either forgotten this part, or you're mixing up with the devil with hooves.

I made a prototype of a pure dungeon crawl game, and I use creatures from mythologies of all over the world, together in one non-specific location!  It's all a hodgepodge, all at once, and I never cared one bit about doing it!

Quote from: Opaopajr on January 27, 2023, 07:39:45 PM
I know what you go through, jhkim. I use a lot of culture analogs to rapidly create my campaign settings. For me the biggest aid is to find monster analogs, if possible, and if not tap into similar monsters that show variance by the culture that surrounds it.

For example, at first Occident dragons & Orient dragons, and similarly with undead vampire/hungry ghosts. But then similarly look how a culture re-reads things like 'undead' or 'goblins' and try to convey that. A lot of White Wolf material, for good and ill, attempts  to tap into those materials. And lastly, if there is no analog or variant -- and everything else is too alien -- I take a "social" monster and attach cultural trappings to keep things suitably in theme (and unexpected for lore munchkins).

So, my orcs & trolls of Thar by the Moonsea have more horseriding raiding parties... and they do underground longhouses if they can, and they like saunas, too. Emulates that Finnish, Karelia, Russian steppe mix. I'm sure I'd add a licorice flavored alcohol of some putrid sort (can you ferment blood? or just add blood to alcohol?) to make it suitably of that region, but also alien to that species. It shows a cross-cultural influence, despite hostilities, and individualizes my campaign monsters from bog standard.

Does that help? 

Yep. That's similar to the sort of thing I've been doing with different intelligent monsters. I agree that thinking monsters can easily have cultural traits that fit with the local culture.

I've been thinking more about how to adapt in wider-ranging monsters as the campaign continues.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 27, 2023, 01:37:37 PM
IIRC the Incas had mummies.

How do I do it? I go balls deep and make the setting it's own thing, most of the X folklore monsters have their equivalent on other cultures. It just requires a LOT more work to stat the new monsters, classes, races and to re-skin them correctly.

The Inca had mummification as a burial ritual -- but their mummies were not regarded the same way as the mummies of D&D. Especially, past emperors were mummies - but they were respected and holy mummies who continued the work of the good Sun God Inti with their immortal life. Since past emperors are patrons rather than foes, their combat stats aren't important, but it's a big point to consider.

As it turns out, my PCs are all working for a mummy - the long-dead grandfather of the current emperor.


I personally am interested in detailed historical campaigns that go all-in. However, I find that it takes a hard-to-find group of players to take to it. The players for this campaign are long-time gamers, but we're fairly casual, and we don't put in a lot of prep time between sessions. We've mostly got busy lives and have only been meeting once a month lately.

This fits well with the D&D-ish approach that goes light on historical details, but still conveys some broad strokes of the geography, politics, a bit of technology, and a smattering of religion and customs. But a lot of specifics are glossed over in favor of action-packed, relatable fantasy.

Quote from: Trond on January 27, 2023, 09:23:28 PM

Quote from: markmohrfield on January 27, 2023, 03:30:02 PM
I recall a scene in Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword in which a Satyr appears in  Viking-age Scandinavia. He had been driven there by the rise of Christianity in his native lands.

I'm confused, but then it's been many years since I read it.
I have either forgotten this part, or you're mixing up with the devil with hooves.

Checking it, I find that it's actually a faun. It appears in Chapter Four. The Devil does appear, but in a different scene.

I don't even use standard D&D races such as elves and gnomes outside of a European-like setting. I instead use setting appropriate creatures, e.g. peris in a Middle Eastern-style campaign.

Since Andean and Paracas peninsula mummies were deemed still living relations to be celebrated and venerated, having them as "good mummies" makes perfect sense, jhkim. They now become sages to confer with, or as you made patrons to the PCs. In fact, I'd assume most Egyptian mummies would be seen in a similar light, without fear as long as one was not desecrating their rest. The major difference is how Incan and Paracan mummies were a part of the social fabric of the ritual (liturgical) year, whereas what we know of the Egyptian is that they were massive patrons to the economy who upon interment were to be kept separated and at 'rest' in their afterlife.

I would say it is also not bad to keep some floating surprises along the boarders of a culture. So a kukulkan or queztalcoatl Rare encounter along the northern reaches of the Inca would keep PCs on their toes. Sort of a 'By Night' internationalism, which can get really interesting with blended settings. For example, Forgotten Realms having Greek, Sumerian, and Egyptian pantheons so near each other and the legendary Halfling lands of Llurien could make for some awesome weirdness. An all halfling party taking on a Sphinx or fighting a possession of Pazuzu would be an epic shakeup of expectations.