I've finished my first read of ACKS, and have confirmed that I want to use some of it in my 5E campaign(s). Specifically, I want to use much of the economic and political underpinnings, while otherwise keeping it mainly 5E. This topic is intended primarily for any suggestions people have on directions, other materials, things to watch out for, etc. for me or anyone else considering something similar. Though if people want to talk about what the like/dislike about the ACKS economic and political systems in general, that could be helpful too.
This topic was helpful at the margins: Convert ACKS module to 5E (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39397-Converting-an-ACKS-Module-to-5E-Module&highlight=acks).
It's fairly clear that I need to also pick up at least the ACKS domain book. That'll go on a gift list this winter. I'm not anticipating any immediate fantasy warfare, but the ACKS war machine book might also be useful.
One set of players in this campaign have semi-secured an abandoned keep and village in the wilderness, not too far from border areas. They are already in the process of attempting to revive it as a border outpost. PCs are mostly around 6th level. The nastiness of the surrounding territory is such that I expect them to hit about 9th before succeeding, giving up, or die trying. :p
I already have a developed hex map (In Worldographer software), with the lowest level at the 6-mile hexes and the next at 24 miles hexes.
In a follow-up, I'll get more specific about my campaign needs. If you want to ignore that and respond more generally, feel free.
Things about my campaign that will require some tweaking in ACKS, beyond any general 5E changes:
1. "People" are thin on the ground, compared to even usual D&D assumptions, never mind the ACKS assumptions. This is a central conceit of the campaign, and tied up into several secrets and themes. So it is not something I am changing to fit ACKS, but need to rather fit ACKS to it. The powers that be will go to a great deal of trouble to protect the people they have--including training. "Pay" is important, but also important are opportunities and safety. Wages will go up compared to ACKS, but even more so the cost of finding and retaining any kind of hirelings and henchman should too.
2. The largest city in the campaign is barely Class IV in ACKS terms. Even civilized areas have some aspects of border areas. (Portals open up, sometimes seemingly at random, spitting out raiders from other dimensions. So even a fortified town is never entirely safe.) However, even a young teen has the equivalent of militia training.
3. On the plus side, technology/magic is a little further along than the usual assumptions. It's the only reason the societies in the campaign have survived. For example, they've almost perfected a form of magical food canning that it is critical to avoiding starvation, and that is far from the only menial labor-saving options. Can roughly consider that it takes somewhere around 50% of the population to manage agriculture and herding.
4. There is a lot of abandoned land, not entirely gone back to wilderness, but not actively worked either. Good farm land isn't all that valuable. Good farm land in a protected area is insanely valuable.
Other than the above, I'm following a lot of the 5E defaults. Due to slow play, I doubt we will have characters above 15th level anytime soon. The highest is currently 9th. You've got your usual mix of nobles, merchants, churches, tradesmen, etc. (with a little more social mobility, up and down, in the categories). The average family size is 6 instead of the ACKS 5, but that is because families often lose an individual as a young adult. The default of 5 for ACKS probably works fine.
Just me just chime in as usual to point out the ACKS system is not actually the ACKS system, but lifted entirely from BECMI, specifically GAZ 11 (caravans) and GAZ9 (sailing ships).
To be fair, they did change the names from A, B,C,D, and E to I,II,III,IV, and V but it's otherwise more or less identical.
Quote from: JeremyR;1059668Just me just chime in as usual to point out the ACKS system is not actually the ACKS system, but lifted entirely from BECMI, specifically GAZ 11 (caravans) and GAZ9 (sailing ships).
To be fair, they did change the names from A, B,C,D, and E to I,II,III,IV, and V but it's otherwise more or less identical.
OP: The trade system was based off the trade system from GAZ 9/11 and if the BECMI trade system and War Machine mass combat system meet your needs then you don't need ACKS. I am a huge fan of BX and BECMI and anyone who plays those games plays a game I love. I hold To Moldvay, David Cook, and Frank Mentzer in the highest regard as game design geniuses upon whose work I feel privileged to build. But Jeremy is simply and bluntly wrong to assert that ACKS is nothing more than a clone of BECMI. Every system in ACKS Core was modified to fit more sensibly into the rest of the economy, and it's all been further expanded and updated in numerous supplements since with increasingly broad variance from what came before. Some times it's little things, like the wages of mercenaries and the cost of grain, that made the entire BECMI economy absurd but which work cleanly in ACKS. Sometimes it's new mechanics, like the GP Threshold system, where in order to get XP from non-adventuring "domain" activities, the XP has to exceed a rising threshold at each level. As a ruler, you need to expand the size of your realm, otherwise you won't advance in power. As a merchant, you need to increase the size of your caravans and fleets, or you won't advance in power. It's all integrated across all the different campaign activities. And the math of these systems is also carefully managed to mesh with the demographics of leveled characters, and so on. NONE of that is in BECMI, at all, anywhere. ACKS also has the entire hijinks section for thieves, which has never been covered in BECMI or any system. ACKS's Domains at War is entirely different from BECMI's War Machine - it has literally 0 in common, was built on a different chassis, scales differently, and can zoom up or down to be a turn-based tabletop minis game or RP engine. Lairs & Encounters has tons of unique new systems. Player's Companion does. Heroic Fantasy Handbook does. And when you add in Axioms, we've added rules for senatorial realms, land and lord separation, revised domain rules, rules for running and owning businesses, and more.
Jeremy: I don't understand what your agenda is here. Do you show up in every thread where someone says they like Swords & Wizardry to tell them it's just OD&D? Do you show up in every thread where someone likes FATE to tell them it's just FUDGE? ACKS is open about being a descendant of BX and BECMI. But it's now almost one million words in print - a complete product line with hundreds of pages of rules never seen elsewhere. Weeks ago I messaged you privately to offer you review copies of the new books so you could see for yourself that you are simply wrong about the system. I never heard back. If you don't want to look at my complete product line, that's your prerogative, but then don't pretend you did and tell people falsehoods about it.
Quote"People" are thin on the ground, compared to even usual D&D assumptions, never mind the ACKS assumptions. This is a central conceit of the campaign, and tied up into several secrets and themes. So it is not something I am changing to fit ACKS, but need to rather fit ACKS to it. The powers that be will go to a great deal of trouble to protect the people they have--including training. "Pay" is important, but also important are opportunities and safety. Wages will go up compared to ACKS, but even more so the cost of finding and retaining any kind of hirelings and henchman should too.
Axioms issue 3 has rules on redistributing land from the rulers to the people, which lessens the ruler's income but can increase domain morale.
Quote2. The largest city in the campaign is barely Class IV in ACKS terms. Even civilized areas have some aspects of border areas. (Portals open up, sometimes seemingly at random, spitting out raiders from other dimensions. So even a fortified town is never entirely safe.) However, even a young teen has the equivalent of militia training.
Axioms 3 has some new rules for domains including non-contiguous domains that might be helpful to you.
Quote3. On the plus side, technology/magic is a little further along than the usual assumptions. It's the only reason the societies in the campaign have survived. For example, they've almost perfected a form of magical food canning that it is critical to avoiding starvation, and that is far from the only menial labor-saving options. Can roughly consider that it takes somewhere around 50% of the population to manage agriculture and herding.
Axioms 3 explains all of the assumptions and math behind productivity and consumption in ACKS, and with that tool kit you can use to rebuild the system to whatever values will make more sense for your game.
It's available for sale on DTRPG or you can get a copy by becoming a Patron. This is what's in Axioms 3:
Strongholds & Domains: a revised approach to ACKS domains for faster, easier play
Separating Land and Lordship: rules for domains of governors and landowners
Senatus Consultum Ultimum: when the senate speaks, the ruler must listen!
Wandering into War: a system of domain encounters to keep rulers on their guard
Of Coins and Commerce: comments and context on the economy of ACKS
The Economics of Peasant Families: what does life hold for those who till the land?
Flocks and Herds and Silver and Gold: calculating returns from owning livestock in ACKS
Thanks!
Quote from: JeremyR;1059668Just me just chime in as usual...
Damn Jeremy, did Alex run over your dog or something? This is at least the fourth board where you've "chimed in" about this.
Quote from: Baron Opal;1059885Damn Jeremy, did Alex run over your dog or something? This is at least the fourth board where you've "chimed in" about this.
I can imagine it's pretty frustrating when people (who likely have never even read it) repeatedly dismiss your work as a copy of something else, when you put effort in to write something bespoke. The economic system in ACKS is very well done, and it's not just a copy of an old supplement.
ACKS certainly owes a lot of its stuff to BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia, but it did also clean it up well.