As some of you might know I've been working on and off on an Urban Fantasy RPG for a while, it has evolved from being Humans hunting monsters only to having other things you could play as.
Now, Vampire and Werewolf are things you're not born into but become, so those should be classes IMHO.
Dhampir and totally not Frankenstein's Creature are things you're "born" as. So those should be races, but a Damphir becomes more powerful with age (in my lore at least) and besides Brute what other class could the Creature be? So maybe Race as Class?
As for the Cambion/Nephilim those are races and I see no reason to have them be classes.
Other classes include:
The Heir (totally not Van Helsing)
The White Witch
The Nahual
The Investigator (Totally not Kolchak)
One other I can't decide if it should be race, class or race as class is The Avatar (Descendants of the native american spirits: Wolf, Coyote, Crow, etc).
FYI I don't really like Race as Class, never had and never will but necesity is the mother of invention (or something like that), so I could live with it.
Thoughts? Ideas?
Have you read Urban Arcana? It's basically D&D crossover with modern Earth. D&D races and monsters appear on Earth for centuries but are hidden behind a global illusion generated by the shadow plane. The human heroes are some of the few who can see the truth.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 12:17:15 AM
One other I can't decide if it should be race, class or race as class is The Avatar (Descendants of the native american spirits: Wolf, Coyote, Crow, etc).
FYI I don't really like Race as Class, never had and never will but necessity is the mother of invention (or something like that), so I could live with it.
Thoughts? Ideas?
Hi, Geeky Bugle!
I like the idea of the Avatar for an Urban Fantasy RPG. I'd use it as class, but the specific totem or spirit could change some characteristics of this class (advantages, skills, spellcasting, etc.)
For instance, descendants of the Wolf or the Thunderbird would be more combat-oriented, while a descendant of Coyote would rely on his cunning and wits, a descendant of the Bear would be a guardian, healer or teacher, while a descendant of the Raven would have magic aptitude.
Hope it helps a little.
i don't really do the Urban Fantasy thing but I think if I did I would have regular professions as PC classes. I love the idea of regular people making it in a hostile world. Imagine an EMT, a cop, and a plumber fighting off a tribe of goblins pouring through a trans-dimensional gate.
Quote from: Greywolf76 on August 07, 2023, 01:05:49 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 12:17:15 AM
One other I can't decide if it should be race, class or race as class is The Avatar (Descendants of the native american spirits: Wolf, Coyote, Crow, etc).
FYI I don't really like Race as Class, never had and never will but necessity is the mother of invention (or something like that), so I could live with it.
Thoughts? Ideas?
Hi, Geeky Bugle!
I like the idea of the Avatar for an Urban Fantasy RPG. I'd use it as class, but the specific totem or spirit could change some characteristics of this class (advantages, skills, spellcasting, etc.)
For instance, descendants of the Wolf or the Thunderbird would be more combat-oriented, while a descendant of Coyote would rely on his cunning and wits, a descendant of the Bear would be a guardian, healer or teacher, while a descendant of the Raven would have magic aptitude.
Hope it helps a little.
Hi Greywolf! Yes, I had thought that different avatars would have different abilities/apptitudes, thanks it does help.
Quote from: BadApple on August 07, 2023, 01:09:37 PM
i don't really do the Urban Fantasy thing but I think if I did I would have regular professions as PC classes. I love the idea of regular people making it in a hostile world. Imagine an EMT, a cop, and a plumber fighting off a tribe of goblins pouring through a trans-dimensional gate.
I hadn't thought of that, not hard to implement those classes though, but now I'm up to my ears in classes...
Maybe divide them by "genre"?
Monster Hunters: Heir, Witch, Investigator, Damphir
Monster Peacekeepers (Good monsters fighting evil ones to protect humanity): Avatar, Nahual, Chemist, Creature, Werewolf, Vampire.
Monster Invasion: Blue Collar, First Responder (choose one), Soldier, Schollar
Subject to change by the GM of course.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 07, 2023, 09:16:25 AM
Have you read Urban Arcana? It's basically D&D crossover with modern Earth. D&D races and monsters appear on Earth for centuries but are hidden behind a global illusion generated by the shadow plane. The human heroes are some of the few who can see the truth.
That's the classic Monster Hunter trope, humans vs monsters. It's something I think you will be able to do with my game, plus other tropes of Urban Fantasy, see above.
The idea of urban fantasy is a pretty broad. Can you give some description of the game you're trying to create?
Rule system:
Is it going to be an OSR product or are you looking at another system?
What makes you need another system rather than you making a supplement for an existing system?
Nature of play:
Are you looking for big sweeping epics, urban exploration, low level adventuring, or something else?
Is the supernatural going to be front and center or is it going to be a "hidden world" type of thing?
Setting:
Is this going to be a normal city with a few exotic fantasy elements or are you going full on Eberron?
Is it a time of war, a pre-war build up of tensions, a post calamity, a new horizons, or some other kind of setting?
Like you said, they should be things you're born as, not be converted into. Since we're talking urban fantasy, which is more mystical versus less technological. Still, let's try.
1. Immortal human come of age. Either thru dumb luck, or the offspring of one or both parents being one, you are an immortal being and have just reached adulthood when you're nature has now gone into effect.
2. Alternate Reality. You are not from this dimension. Why/how/when you left your home dimension is another story, but you are now here. You have abilities that everyone around does due to differences in your origin.
3. Immaculate conception. You have a mother, but she promises that you have no father. She just became pregnant all those years ago for some reason, probably supernatural. Either way, you have powers and abilities normal people do not. Don't laugh, but walking on water and a healing touch might be two of them.
4. Time Traveler. Either deliberately or accidentally, you are from the past or potential future. You now have the opportunity to change the world using knowledge that nobody but you possesses.
Quote from: BadApple on August 07, 2023, 02:54:27 PM
The idea of urban fantasy is a pretty broad. Can you give some description of the game you're trying to create?
Yes, I can try.
Quote
Rule system:
Is it going to be an OSR product or are you looking at another system?
What makes you need another system rather than you making a supplement for an existing system?
OSR with a few modern things added (Advantage/Dissadvantage), maybe some type of skills and almost sure Feat Dice (there are NO feats, instead you get a dice tied to your attributes that increases depending of your attribute score, from d4 to d12 IIRC).
Quote
Nature of play:
Are you looking for big sweeping epics, urban exploration, low level adventuring, or something else?
Is the supernatural going to be front and center or is it going to be a "hidden world" type of thing?
The first part will depend on the GM, but the game will not get in your way whatever you choose, it's gonna be a sandbox.
It's a sandbox, but I'll try and include as many things as I can to facilitate both.
Quote
Setting:
Is this going to be a normal city with a few exotic fantasy elements or are you going full on Eberron?
Is it a time of war, a pre-war build up of tensions, a post calamity, a new horizons, or some other kind of setting?
It's modern day (current year), how gonzo you want to make it will depend on you, the tools will be there ( what I want is to facilitate a more subdued kind of play (Kolchak) and Buffy, Underworld, Patricia Briggs' Mercy Thompson, and others.
It will be left to the GM, with the tools to build all of those, but the defaul settings I'll include will be:
Invasion! Something happened and suddenly there's monsters, humans have to fight them off.
Hidden world: Monsters have always been around but there's a secret war to keep them at bay.
Monstrous Protectors: Monsters were always around, now it's become public knowledge they exist, some paranormals are hunting down the ones that don't want to hunt/enslave humans.
Quote from: weirdguy564 on August 07, 2023, 03:04:13 PM
Like you said, they should've things you're born as, not be converted into. Since we're talking urban fantasy, which is more mystical versus less technological. Still, let's try.
1. Immortal human come of age. Either thru dumb luck, or the offspring of one or both parents being one, you are an immortal being and have just reached adulthood when you're nature has now gone into effect.
2. Alternate Reality. You are not from this dimension. Why/how/when you left your home dimension is another story, but you are now here. You have abilities that everyone around does due to differences in your origin.
3. Immaculate conception. You have a mother, but she promises that you have no father. She just became pregnant all those years ago for some reason, probably supernatural. Either way, you have powers and abilities normal people do not. Don't laugh, but walking on water and a healing touch might be two of them.
4. Time Traveler. Either deliberately or accidentally, you are from the past or potential future. You now have the opportunity to change the world using knowledge that nobody but you possesses.
Those are interesting, some easier to implement than others. I like them a lot!
So Highlander meets Van Helsing, yes I like it.
Extradimensional... Not bad, this opens up a lot of possibilities for new races. I like it.
The Chosen one... It has posibilities, I have my Nephilim race, this could be a perfect way to have one in the party. Or go the other way around and use a fallen angel as the father, so my Cambion race.
Time Traveller... This is the one that will be harder to implement if it's someone from the future, are you thinking of Doctor Who?
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 03:12:23 PM
Quote from: BadApple on August 07, 2023, 02:54:27 PM
The idea of urban fantasy is a pretty broad. Can you give some description of the game you're trying to create?
Yes, I can try.
Quote
Rule system:
Is it going to be an OSR product or are you looking at another system?
What makes you need another system rather than you making a supplement for an existing system?
OSR with a few modern things added (Advantage/Dissadvantage), maybe some type of skills and almost sure Feat Dice (there are NO feats, instead you get a dice tied to your attributes that increases depending of your attribute score, from d4 to d12 IIRC).
Quote
Nature of play:
Are you looking for big sweeping epics, urban exploration, low level adventuring, or something else?
Is the supernatural going to be front and center or is it going to be a "hidden world" type of thing?
The first part will depend on the GM, but the game will not get in your way whatever you choose, it's gonna be a sandbox.
It's a sandbox, but I'll try and include as many things as I can to facilitate both.
Quote
Setting:
Is this going to be a normal city with a few exotic fantasy elements or are you going full on Eberron?
Is it a time of war, a pre-war build up of tensions, a post calamity, a new horizons, or some other kind of setting?
It's modern day (current year), how gonzo you want to make it will depend on you, the tools will be there ( what I want is to facilitate a more subdued kind of play (Kolchak) and Buffy, Underworld, Patricia Briggs' Mercy Thompson, and others.
It will be left to the GM, with the tools to build all of those, but the defaul settings I'll include will be:
Invasion! Something happened and suddenly there's monsters, humans have to fight them off.
Hidden world: Monsters have always been around but there's a secret war to keep them at bay.
Monstrous Protectors: Monsters were always around, now it's become public knowledge they exist, some paranormals are hunting down the ones that don't want to hunt/enslave humans.
Solid, knowing this makes it easier to give a clear response.
First, I do think that making races and classes distinct is a good idea.
Second, hold on to your hat, have a series of basic classes like tradesman, police officer, and businessman. Then have a series of traditional D&D type classes they can become as they level up due to experience, finding artifacts, and their play style. Change fighter to magic swordsman and that unlocks the use of magical weapons as well as granting proficiency in weapons use. Otherwise, thief, wizard, cleric, and such are all on the table for a mundane character to become at lvl 4.
Also, you need guns, lots of guns.
Anyway, just my thoughts. Hopefully it gave you a grin if not some ideas.
Quote from: BadApple on August 07, 2023, 03:40:14 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 03:12:23 PM
Quote from: BadApple on August 07, 2023, 02:54:27 PM
The idea of urban fantasy is a pretty broad. Can you give some description of the game you're trying to create?
Yes, I can try.
Quote
Rule system:
Is it going to be an OSR product or are you looking at another system?
What makes you need another system rather than you making a supplement for an existing system?
OSR with a few modern things added (Advantage/Dissadvantage), maybe some type of skills and almost sure Feat Dice (there are NO feats, instead you get a dice tied to your attributes that increases depending of your attribute score, from d4 to d12 IIRC).
Quote
Nature of play:
Are you looking for big sweeping epics, urban exploration, low level adventuring, or something else?
Is the supernatural going to be front and center or is it going to be a "hidden world" type of thing?
The first part will depend on the GM, but the game will not get in your way whatever you choose, it's gonna be a sandbox.
It's a sandbox, but I'll try and include as many things as I can to facilitate both.
Quote
Setting:
Is this going to be a normal city with a few exotic fantasy elements or are you going full on Eberron?
Is it a time of war, a pre-war build up of tensions, a post calamity, a new horizons, or some other kind of setting?
It's modern day (current year), how gonzo you want to make it will depend on you, the tools will be there ( what I want is to facilitate a more subdued kind of play (Kolchak) and Buffy, Underworld, Patricia Briggs' Mercy Thompson, and others.
It will be left to the GM, with the tools to build all of those, but the defaul settings I'll include will be:
Invasion! Something happened and suddenly there's monsters, humans have to fight them off.
Hidden world: Monsters have always been around but there's a secret war to keep them at bay.
Monstrous Protectors: Monsters were always around, now it's become public knowledge they exist, some paranormals are hunting down the ones that don't want to hunt/enslave humans.
Solid, knowing this makes it easier to give a clear response.
First, I do think that making races and classes distinct is a good idea.
Second, hold on to your hat, have a series of basic classes like tradesman, police officer, and businessman. Then have a series of traditional D&D type classes they can become as they level up due to experience, finding artifacts, and their play style. Change fighter to magic swordsman and that unlocks the use of magical weapons as well as granting proficiency in weapons use. Otherwise, thief, wizard, cleric, and such are all on the table for a mundane character to become at lvl 4.
Also, you need guns, lots of guns.
Anyway, just my thoughts. Hopefully it gave you a grin if not some ideas.
That's a solid advice, thanks.
Quote from: BadApple on August 07, 2023, 01:09:37 PM
i don't really do the Urban Fantasy thing but I think if I did I would have regular professions as PC classes. I love the idea of regular people making it in a hostile world. Imagine an EMT, a cop, and a plumber fighting off a tribe of goblins pouring through a trans-dimensional gate.
Would these really be "classes" though, or just more akin to Backgrounds? What abilities would a plumber gain over 10 or so levels that make it significantly different to an electrician or machinist? Seems like you can just have an generic "Engineer" class, and let the player fill in the specifics of their specialty. GMs can then just ad hoc bonuses as they pertain. "Oh, you're an electrician? Okay, Target Number for defusing the bomb is slightly lower."
You would only need a handful of these generically defined classes to encompass a whole slough of professions. "Wheelman" can cover anything from bus driver to NASCAR. "Medic" can be an EMT (specialist in first aid) or a brain surgeon (specialist in head trauma).
The concept of character classes doesn't really make sense for a game set on modern Earth. We know real life doesn't work like character classes in a ttrpg. d20 Modern tried building its base classes around the six ability scores instead. You can argue how well that worked, but I don't think there's anything better they could've done.
Quote from: Effete on August 07, 2023, 07:51:39 PM
Quote from: BadApple on August 07, 2023, 01:09:37 PM
i don't really do the Urban Fantasy thing but I think if I did I would have regular professions as PC classes. I love the idea of regular people making it in a hostile world. Imagine an EMT, a cop, and a plumber fighting off a tribe of goblins pouring through a trans-dimensional gate.
Would these really be "classes" though, or just more akin to Backgrounds? What abilities would a plumber gain over 10 or so levels that make it significantly different to an electrician or machinist? Seems like you can just have an generic "Engineer" class, and let the player fill in the specifics of their specialty. GMs can then just ad hoc bonuses as they pertain. "Oh, you're an electrician? Okay, Target Number for defusing the bomb is slightly lower."
You would only need a handful of these generically defined classes to encompass a whole slough of professions. "Wheelman" can cover anything from bus driver to NASCAR. "Medic" can be an EMT (specialist in first aid) or a brain surgeon (specialist in head trauma).
Me personally, I love to take the mundane elements of a PC and bring them to the fore as an asset. Having normal careers as full on classes is an idea I love. Sure you know how to stab a feral hog monster but can cook some tasty bbq ribs that can tempt the dwarves to the table to negotiate a treaty?
I think a practical way to do it would be to do it with very broad careers like "trades" or "medical" and then use more specific careers as sub classes.
With something like trades/electrician with trades class features being around tools, structural understanding, maintenance, and repairs where the electrician subclass would start out with the ability to check for power and render electrical systems safe and get to a point where they can reprogram PLCs. Obviously, trades could have a LOT of sub classes. an interesting feature you could do with the Trades class is that every couple of levels, they can pick up another trade and level both up at the same time. This reflects real life trades workers that are motivated and skilled.
Business could be a class though being an adventurer would seem an ill fit at first glance. I actually could see them being a bit of a bard type class with negotiation and sales while also being able to look at documents and sort them out quickly.
Military and police could be a single class with more distinction made in sub classes. Or it could be several, the military has a lot of jobs and police do some incredible things physically.
Obviously, engineering, sciences, firefighters, drivers of all kinds, surveyors, are some professions that have things that would be excellent skills for adventurers. I would love to add some kind of martial arts instructor or MMA competitor to the mix as well. (gotta have a Master Ken PC.)
A class that I think would be solid for this kind of play would be a cook of some kind. Knife skills to start combat with but also support skills to feed people, preserve food, boot morale, provide nutrition to aide in healing. I'd play this PC in a hot minute.
With all of this, it would be on the GM to give the players problems they can solve as regular people with regular jobs mix in with clubbing rogue goblins with an 1 & 5/8" wrench. Frankly, the whole blue collar normal dude making it in a rough world is both very entertaining to me and heroic feeling at a level it's hard to identify with something like 5e.
Don't get me wrong, you could run this as one campaign and then have another set in the same world where the PCs are classes that are dialed in for adventuring. You could have a mix of traditional fantasy classes mixed with classes that are high end modern operators like EOD and Army Rangers.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 07, 2023, 09:10:59 PM
The concept of character classes doesn't really make sense for a game set on modern Earth. We know real life doesn't work like character classes in a ttrpg. d20 Modern tried building its base classes around the six ability scores instead. You can argue how well that worked, but I don't think there's anything better they could've done.
I think it can if you do it right. I would certainly describe some modern professions as ready-for-D&D class structure. Military SpecOps, Police (particularly with things like detectives and SWAT), and fire fighters are almost there already.
Have you read Everyday Heroes? They're updating d20 Modern to 5e. Apparently they intend to adapt Urban Arcana too.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 07, 2023, 09:48:22 PM
Have you read Everyday Heroes? They're updating d20 Modern to 5e. Apparently they intend to adapt Urban Arcana too.
Nope, but it's about Action Movies no? I mean everyday Heroes.
Urban Arcana for 5e, yes I'm not worried about them.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 07, 2023, 09:10:59 PM
The concept of character classes doesn't really make sense for a game set on modern Earth. We know real life doesn't work like character classes in a ttrpg. d20 Modern tried building its base classes around the six ability scores instead. You can argue how well that worked, but I don't think there's anything better they could've done.
Really? So anyone can do what a Special Ops soldier can? Without the training? Or perform surgery?
IMHO what you need is different classes.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 10:40:49 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 07, 2023, 09:10:59 PM
The concept of character classes doesn't really make sense for a game set on modern Earth. We know real life doesn't work like character classes in a ttrpg. d20 Modern tried building its base classes around the six ability scores instead. You can argue how well that worked, but I don't think there's anything better they could've done.
Really? So anyone can do what a Special Ops soldier can? Without the training? Or perform surgery?
IMHO what you need is different classes.
What I mean is that real life operates according to a skill-based system, not a level-based system. Insofar as that sentence makes any sense at all.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 08, 2023, 08:41:01 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 10:40:49 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 07, 2023, 09:10:59 PM
The concept of character classes doesn't really make sense for a game set on modern Earth. We know real life doesn't work like character classes in a ttrpg. d20 Modern tried building its base classes around the six ability scores instead. You can argue how well that worked, but I don't think there's anything better they could've done.
Really? So anyone can do what a Special Ops soldier can? Without the training? Or perform surgery?
IMHO what you need is different classes.
What I mean is that real life operates according to a skill-based system, not a level-based system. Insofar as that sentence makes any sense at all.
I agree with you and I prefer skill based games myself.
But
Level based games are the norm for what OP is doing and if it's handled with a bit of care it can work.
If you were to take a soldier and make him a class, you can start him out as a basic infantry graduate and then level him up through Airborne, mountain warfare, Rangers, Special Forces, and finally War college. This would work in a level based system and reflect the career trajectory of a lot of elite operators. To make it even more will rounded, you could add branching levels as well through different career paths. (There really isn't a template for the exact route a high level soldier gets training to become what he does. Each Green Beret has a lot of overlapping training but unique to his own opportunities and aptitudes.)
OTOH, you could take that same soldier character in a skill based system and give him the starting collection of skills you think a GI grunt has and then add to those skills to represent his career growth.
In reality, neither one truly reflects reality. Soldiers go through short high intensity training period where they gain skills followed by longer periods of low intensity (and mundane) work up until they go through another training period or are called up to war. The other thing is that training can give an incredible amount of skills quickly but ultimately some things are only picked up through field experience. There are excellent examples of men with not much advanced training but having both field experience and bravery are able to perform at legendary levels. (Look up John Daily)
TL;DR - We aren't simulationists. Playing RPGs takes a lot of suspension of disbelief but good game designs meet us in the middle.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 08, 2023, 08:41:01 AM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 10:40:49 PM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on August 07, 2023, 09:10:59 PM
The concept of character classes doesn't really make sense for a game set on modern Earth. We know real life doesn't work like character classes in a ttrpg. d20 Modern tried building its base classes around the six ability scores instead. You can argue how well that worked, but I don't think there's anything better they could've done.
Really? So anyone can do what a Special Ops soldier can? Without the training? Or perform surgery?
IMHO what you need is different classes.
What I mean is that real life operates according to a skill-based system, not a level-based system. Insofar as that sentence makes any sense at all.
AFAIK there's no Vampires, Werewolves, zombies, etc IRL.
What you might take 30+ minutes building in systems like Hero it's the same as what I give you prebuilt in the OSR.
It's not a simulation of real life, it's a game.
Ok, this is just for fun on my part. This thread got me thinking about what kind of adventures could you do with a urban fantasy setting that you wouldn't do with a standard fantasy. It's not the fantastic tropes that make it a great idea, it's the more mundane things you get to bring close proximity to the fantastic that makes it fun. With that in mind, you can actually use modern maps as handouts.
First adventure idea
Type: Fantasy invasion of the real world survival sandbox
Location: Boston
PCs: USN sailors on liberty during Fleet Week
The setup: The PCs are a group of sailors going back to their ship after a night on the town. They are in a subway station waiting for their ride when all hell breaks loose. A group of goblins come down onto the platform and then the entrance collapses. A small opener combat. Afterwards, the PCs find themselves on a platform with dead goblins, a dozen people (some injured), and no direct access to the surface.
The campaign: Maps of the Boston subway system and street maps for Boston are given to the players as handouts and in game artifacts. I really comes down to what the sailors want to do. They can simply take up arms and defend the city, take the others on the platform under their protection and try to find safety for them, they might try and return to their ship, or they might be enthralled by the idea of magic and try to pursue it. There is an evil dark lord looking to acquire firearms for his fantasy realm that's doing the invading but there are also friendly (if the PCs talk to them) other world scouts trying to put a stop to his plans. Firearms have been effective but the dark lords army has been overwhelming the police with massive human waves (goblin waves?). A few giants and a dragon have been unleashed onto the streets of Boston as well, the dragon having caused the subway entrance collapse.
Second adventure idea
Type: Hidden world episodic sandbox detective?
Location: Pick a city, I like a smaller city for this one
PCs: Job seekers that answered a posting
Set up: The PCs are at a strip mall in an unfinished, mostly empty unit. The floor is bare concrete, there's a row of cheap metal folding chairs for the interviewees, and is the middle of the room is a large oak desk big enough for a pool table. They are there answering a listing for "technical field work assistant, no experience or degree required." As the PCs wait, an older man in a brown business suit of a 1920s vintage comes in and tells them he doesn't have time to do proper sit down interviews but they should follow him to his next job site where he can evaluate him and they can learn about the job.
The campaign: This is a Witcher/MIB type game where the old man is a wizard and monster hunter that's getting too old for the job so he needs some younger people to do the heavy lifting. After one or two times with him in the field, he gets hurt and he runs the show from the office. A GM should use the old man as a source of direction and suggestions but carefully avoid too much exposition. (He is an old man so long, rambling stories that never get to the point should be common.) If I were to do this, I would acquire a number of bestiary books that don't have stats as in game artifacts and I would produce handouts that give clues to features about the monster without giving clear descriptions. The job should be two fold, find and neutralize the monster and then clean it up as to leave behind the least amount of evidence.
Quote from: BadApple on August 09, 2023, 03:45:51 PM
Ok, this is just for fun on my part. This thread got me thinking about what kind of adventures could you do with a urban fantasy setting that you wouldn't do with a standard fantasy. It's not the fantastic tropes that make it a great idea, it's the more mundane things you get to bring close proximity to the fantastic that makes it fun. With that in mind, you can actually use modern maps as handouts.
First adventure idea
Type: Fantasy invasion of the real world survival sandbox
Location: Boston
PCs: USN sailors on liberty during Fleet Week
The setup: The PCs are a group of sailors going back to their ship after a night on the town. They are in a subway station waiting for their ride when all hell breaks loose. A group of goblins come down onto the platform and then the entrance collapses. A small opener combat. Afterwards, the PCs find themselves on a platform with dead goblins, a dozen people (some injured), and no direct access to the surface.
The campaign: Maps of the Boston subway system and street maps for Boston are given to the players as handouts and in game artifacts. I really comes down to what the sailors want to do. They can simply take up arms and defend the city, take the others on the platform under their protection and try to find safety for them, they might try and return to their ship, or they might be enthralled by the idea of magic and try to pursue it. There is an evil dark lord looking to acquire firearms for his fantasy realm that's doing the invading but there are also friendly (if the PCs talk to them) other world scouts trying to put a stop to his plans. Firearms have been effective but the dark lords army has been overwhelming the police with massive human waves (goblin waves?). A few giants and a dragon have been unleashed onto the streets of Boston as well, the dragon having caused the subway entrance collapse.
Second adventure idea
Type: Hidden world episodic sandbox detective?
Location: Pick a city, I like a smaller city for this one
PCs: Job seekers that answered a posting
Set up: The PCs are at a strip mall in an unfinished, mostly empty unit. The floor is bare concrete, there's a row of cheap metal folding chairs for the interviewees, and is the middle of the room is a large oak desk big enough for a pool table. They are there answering a listing for "technical field work assistant, no experience or degree required." As the PCs wait, an older man in a brown business suit of a 1920s vintage comes in and tells them he doesn't have time to do proper sit down interviews but they should follow him to his next job site where he can evaluate him and they can learn about the job.
The campaign: This is a Witcher/MIB type game where the old man is a wizard and monster hunter that's getting too old for the job so he needs some younger people to do the heavy lifting. After one or two times with him in the field, he gets hurt and he runs the show from the office. A GM should use the old man as a source of direction and suggestions but carefully avoid too much exposition. (He is an old man so long, rambling stories that never get to the point should be common.) If I were to do this, I would acquire a number of bestiary books that don't have stats as in game artifacts and I would produce handouts that give clues to features about the monster without giving clear descriptions. The job should be two fold, find and neutralize the monster and then clean it up as to leave behind the least amount of evidence.
Yes, the first is what I call Invasion!, while the second is your standar fare monster hunting where some of the PCs might not be human (unless wizards ARE human and it's something anyone could potentially learn, then it's humans vs monsters).
There's also the Monstrous Protectors, where the PCs are monsters fighting evil monsters
Lastly there's the Supernatural War, where one type of monsters and it's allies are fighting other type of monsters and their allies.
My plan is to have all of those as potential playstyles/campaigns ergo the need for more playable classes and races than your typical OSR game.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 03:56:57 PM
Quote from: BadApple on August 09, 2023, 03:45:51 PM
Ok, this is just for fun on my part. This thread got me thinking about what kind of adventures could you do with a urban fantasy setting that you wouldn't do with a standard fantasy. It's not the fantastic tropes that make it a great idea, it's the more mundane things you get to bring close proximity to the fantastic that makes it fun. With that in mind, you can actually use modern maps as handouts.
First adventure idea
Type: Fantasy invasion of the real world survival sandbox
Location: Boston
PCs: USN sailors on liberty during Fleet Week
The setup: The PCs are a group of sailors going back to their ship after a night on the town. They are in a subway station waiting for their ride when all hell breaks loose. A group of goblins come down onto the platform and then the entrance collapses. A small opener combat. Afterwards, the PCs find themselves on a platform with dead goblins, a dozen people (some injured), and no direct access to the surface.
The campaign: Maps of the Boston subway system and street maps for Boston are given to the players as handouts and in game artifacts. I really comes down to what the sailors want to do. They can simply take up arms and defend the city, take the others on the platform under their protection and try to find safety for them, they might try and return to their ship, or they might be enthralled by the idea of magic and try to pursue it. There is an evil dark lord looking to acquire firearms for his fantasy realm that's doing the invading but there are also friendly (if the PCs talk to them) other world scouts trying to put a stop to his plans. Firearms have been effective but the dark lords army has been overwhelming the police with massive human waves (goblin waves?). A few giants and a dragon have been unleashed onto the streets of Boston as well, the dragon having caused the subway entrance collapse.
Second adventure idea
Type: Hidden world episodic sandbox detective?
Location: Pick a city, I like a smaller city for this one
PCs: Job seekers that answered a posting
Set up: The PCs are at a strip mall in an unfinished, mostly empty unit. The floor is bare concrete, there's a row of cheap metal folding chairs for the interviewees, and is the middle of the room is a large oak desk big enough for a pool table. They are there answering a listing for "technical field work assistant, no experience or degree required." As the PCs wait, an older man in a brown business suit of a 1920s vintage comes in and tells them he doesn't have time to do proper sit down interviews but they should follow him to his next job site where he can evaluate him and they can learn about the job.
The campaign: This is a Witcher/MIB type game where the old man is a wizard and monster hunter that's getting too old for the job so he needs some younger people to do the heavy lifting. After one or two times with him in the field, he gets hurt and he runs the show from the office. A GM should use the old man as a source of direction and suggestions but carefully avoid too much exposition. (He is an old man so long, rambling stories that never get to the point should be common.) If I were to do this, I would acquire a number of bestiary books that don't have stats as in game artifacts and I would produce handouts that give clues to features about the monster without giving clear descriptions. The job should be two fold, find and neutralize the monster and then clean it up as to leave behind the least amount of evidence.
Yes, the first is what I call Invasion!, while the second is your standar fare monster hunting where some of the PCs might not be human (unless wizards ARE human and it's something anyone could potentially learn, then it's humans vs monsters).
There's also the Monstrous Protectors, where the PCs are monsters fighting evil monsters
Lastly there's the Supernatural War, where one type of monsters and it's allies are fighting other type of monsters and their allies.
My plan is to have all of those as potential playstyles/campaigns ergo the need for more playable classes and races than your typical OSR game.
In the second scenario, I would assume that wizards are human and anyone could learn magic. I would also assume that not all fantastic creatures are monsters. I would love the idea of being able to go to a library through a magical door that's staffed by dwarven librarians and meeting a fairy informant in the park near the flower beds while trying to keep it low key.
Also, in my mind, a monster is defined by behavior; destructive and malevolent behavior intentionally directed at the innocent. With that, a human can be a monster and a troll just a creature. Also, a large mindless creature can still be a problem even if it's not malevolent.
Quote from: BadApple on August 09, 2023, 04:18:44 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 03:56:57 PM
Quote from: BadApple on August 09, 2023, 03:45:51 PM
Ok, this is just for fun on my part. This thread got me thinking about what kind of adventures could you do with a urban fantasy setting that you wouldn't do with a standard fantasy. It's not the fantastic tropes that make it a great idea, it's the more mundane things you get to bring close proximity to the fantastic that makes it fun. With that in mind, you can actually use modern maps as handouts.
First adventure idea
Type: Fantasy invasion of the real world survival sandbox
Location: Boston
PCs: USN sailors on liberty during Fleet Week
The setup: The PCs are a group of sailors going back to their ship after a night on the town. They are in a subway station waiting for their ride when all hell breaks loose. A group of goblins come down onto the platform and then the entrance collapses. A small opener combat. Afterwards, the PCs find themselves on a platform with dead goblins, a dozen people (some injured), and no direct access to the surface.
The campaign: Maps of the Boston subway system and street maps for Boston are given to the players as handouts and in game artifacts. I really comes down to what the sailors want to do. They can simply take up arms and defend the city, take the others on the platform under their protection and try to find safety for them, they might try and return to their ship, or they might be enthralled by the idea of magic and try to pursue it. There is an evil dark lord looking to acquire firearms for his fantasy realm that's doing the invading but there are also friendly (if the PCs talk to them) other world scouts trying to put a stop to his plans. Firearms have been effective but the dark lords army has been overwhelming the police with massive human waves (goblin waves?). A few giants and a dragon have been unleashed onto the streets of Boston as well, the dragon having caused the subway entrance collapse.
Second adventure idea
Type: Hidden world episodic sandbox detective?
Location: Pick a city, I like a smaller city for this one
PCs: Job seekers that answered a posting
Set up: The PCs are at a strip mall in an unfinished, mostly empty unit. The floor is bare concrete, there's a row of cheap metal folding chairs for the interviewees, and is the middle of the room is a large oak desk big enough for a pool table. They are there answering a listing for "technical field work assistant, no experience or degree required." As the PCs wait, an older man in a brown business suit of a 1920s vintage comes in and tells them he doesn't have time to do proper sit down interviews but they should follow him to his next job site where he can evaluate him and they can learn about the job.
The campaign: This is a Witcher/MIB type game where the old man is a wizard and monster hunter that's getting too old for the job so he needs some younger people to do the heavy lifting. After one or two times with him in the field, he gets hurt and he runs the show from the office. A GM should use the old man as a source of direction and suggestions but carefully avoid too much exposition. (He is an old man so long, rambling stories that never get to the point should be common.) If I were to do this, I would acquire a number of bestiary books that don't have stats as in game artifacts and I would produce handouts that give clues to features about the monster without giving clear descriptions. The job should be two fold, find and neutralize the monster and then clean it up as to leave behind the least amount of evidence.
Yes, the first is what I call Invasion!, while the second is your standar fare monster hunting where some of the PCs might not be human (unless wizards ARE human and it's something anyone could potentially learn, then it's humans vs monsters).
There's also the Monstrous Protectors, where the PCs are monsters fighting evil monsters
Lastly there's the Supernatural War, where one type of monsters and it's allies are fighting other type of monsters and their allies.
My plan is to have all of those as potential playstyles/campaigns ergo the need for more playable classes and races than your typical OSR game.
In the second scenario, I would assume that wizards are human and anyone could learn magic. I would also assume that not all fantastic creatures are monsters. I would love the idea of being able to go to a library through a magical door that's staffed by dwarven librarians and meeting a fairy informant in the park near the flower beds while trying to keep it low key.
Also, in my mind, a monster is defined by behavior; destructive and malevolent behavior intentionally directed at the innocent. With that, a human can be a monster and a troll just a creature. Also, a large mindless creature can still be a problem even if it's not malevolent.
You're thinking of standard current year Urban Fantasy, I enjoy it too, and my use of monster isn't related to morality or actions as my use of monsters vs evil monsters should make evident.
I would find way more fresh a campaign where only humans are the good guys and all non-humans are vil, like the Brothers Grimm's tales (mostly, some evil humans around there too).
But once published it's your game, your table and your world, if you want to play Twilight have at it.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 04:26:58 PM
But once published it's your game, your table and your world, if you want to play Twilight have at it.
;D
Honestly, I love the fact that you don't see it the same way as me. That just means if we ever share a table, we can each bring something fresh.
BTW, a lot of my personal interpretation of traditional fantasy creatures comes from George Macdonald's books. Phantastes: A Fairie Romance for Men and Women, Princess and and the Goblin, and Lilith are three books that are particularly influential to me.
Quote from: BadApple on August 09, 2023, 04:53:32 PM
BTW, a lot of my personal interpretation of traditional fantasy creatures comes from George Macdonald's books. Phantastes: A Fairie Romance for Men and Women, Princess and and the Goblin, and Lilith are three books that are particularly influential to me.
Never read it, my partial Appendix N:
Mercy Thompson, Patricia Briggs
Monster Hunter Intl, Larry Correia
Buffy
Kolchack The Night Stalker
Underworld
Van Helsing (the Hugh Jackman movie)
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 09, 2023, 05:08:47 PM
Quote from: BadApple on August 09, 2023, 04:53:32 PM
BTW, a lot of my personal interpretation of traditional fantasy creatures comes from George Macdonald's books. Phantastes: A Fairie Romance for Men and Women, Princess and and the Goblin, and Lilith are three books that are particularly influential to me.
Never read it, my partial Appendix N:
Mercy Thompson, Patricia Briggs
Monster Hunter Intl, Larry Correia
Buffy
Kolchack The Night Stalker
Underworld
Van Helsing (the Hugh Jackman movie)
I highly recommend George Macdonald. His stuff is highly dated as it was all written in the 1800s but it has a charm so many modern fantasy writers lack. JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis had Macdonald in their Appendix N.
Your list is all good stuff. Kolchack The Night Stalker is a particular one that I've enjoyed. (it's been 30+ years since I've seen it though.)
I'd definitely recommend also Dresden Files books.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 12:17:15 AM
Now, Vampire and Werewolf are things you're not born into but become, so those should be classes IMHO.
Can you multiclass? And can you be a Vampire/Werewolf?
Gremlins.
Quote from: migo on November 05, 2023, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 12:17:15 AM
Now, Vampire and Werewolf are things you're not born into but become, so those should be classes IMHO.
Can you multiclass? And can you be a Vampire/Werewolf?
Why not? Dracula did it.
He was a Wizard/Vampire/Werewolf in his novel (in D&D terms he was some unholy multi-class fighter/wizard (enchanter/necromancer)/cleric (of Satan)/anti-druid who was also a vampire).
Quote from: migo on November 05, 2023, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 07, 2023, 12:17:15 AM
Now, Vampire and Werewolf are things you're not born into but become, so those should be classes IMHO.
Can you multiclass? And can you be a Vampire/Werewolf?
Haven't gotten that far as rules for multiclassing in general, not sure which way I'll go.
That hybrid is very Underworld, not sure either but if yes then chances of dying have to be very high, near 100%