What media published after D&D would you include on an updated "Appendix N: Inspirational and Educational Reading"? Is there anything written in the last 2 or 3 decades that really strikes you as being particularly inspirational for a classic D&D campaign or that you wish had been published early enough to influence the original game?

It's kind of a trick question because D&D was so hugely influential with the fantasy genre.

That being said, off the top of my head: A Song of Ice and Fire, a bunch of 1980s fantasy movies and a bunch of videogames (Diablo, Warcraft/WoW, Skyrim).

David Gemmell should be in Appendix N.

Not post D&D but I think both the Gormenghast books and the Worm Oroborous should be listed.

There are quite a few things that were obviously inspired by D&D and don't have anything new to offer that isn't already in the game. However, there are a lot of works that add something new or add some new twists that could be folded back into the game as new options.

Quote from: Xúc xắc;930104There are quite a few things that were obviously inspired by D&D and don't have anything new to offer that isn't already in the game. However, there are a lot of works that add something new or add some new twists that could be folded back into the game as new options.

Okay.

Are you going to tell us which ones, or are we supposed to guess or something?

I've mostly been reading a lot of old books, so I can't think of examples of post-D&D books off the top of my head. For movies, I would have liked a class like clerics that were more like Jedi than Knights Hospitaler or whatever.

Karl Edward Wagner's Kane novels most notably.  Elric has been described at the anti-Conan, but really, I think Kane lives up to that billing far better.  Elric is basically a decent guy despite his upbringing and having an evil sword. Kane on the other hand is a real bastard. He can be likeable, but he's really evil. Not in the cartoon way. But not psychotic, either.

Also definitely the best integration of HPL style mythos into fantasy, in particular the novel Darkness Weaves.

They perhaps could have been in Appendix N, actually. But I don't think he read them because he wrote a letter complaining about the Giants of the Earth article in Dragon about Kane (saying he was too powerful)

I would also include Lawrence Watt-Evans' Ethshar novels. They originally sprang from the world from a play by mail game he ran. But what I like about them is they are almost always focused on individuals, nothing epic or world shaking.

Glen Cook probably deserves to go in there for his Black Company novels (which EGG liked and mentioned in Dragon) and my more favorite Garrett novels, about a private investigator in a fairly gritty fantasy city.

Quote from: JeremyR;930130Karl Edward Wagner's Kane novels most notably.  Elric has been described at the anti-Conan, but really, I think Kane lives up to that billing far better.  Elric is basically a decent guy despite his upbringing and having an evil sword. Kane on the other hand is a real bastard. He can be likeable, but he's really evil. Not in the cartoon way. But not psychotic, either.

I wish Wagner had published more Kane stories before he died. I'd argue that Kane is psychotic, not in a silly cackling evil sort of way, but in the way that someone who watches everyone he loves or care about die, anything he creates eventually fall into ruin and decay, over, and over, and over again. His is a well thought out, interesting, and somewhat unique take on a familiar trope.

QuoteAlso definitely the best integration of HPL style mythos into fantasy, in particular the novel Darkness Weaves.

Wagner was a horror author who got the Mythos.

QuoteGlen Cook probably deserves to go in there for his Black Company novels (which EGG liked and mentioned in Dragon) and my more favorite Garrett novels, about a private investigator in a fairly gritty fantasy city.

The Garret novels are obviously post D&D fiction. And I like the takes Cook has on powerful mages like the squabbling and bickering amongst the Taken or the personally stunted by his overwhelming quest for vengeance of Varthlokkor.

And speaking of Elric, I think that Cook's standalone novel, The Swordbearer, creates a better Stormbringer-like sword than Moorcock's soul sucking sword Stormbringer.

• [STRIKE]The History of the Runestaff by Michael Moorcock.[/STRIKE] Already in Appendix N, it seems.
  
• "The Witcher" by Andrzej Sapkowski.
• "The Far Kingdoms" by Alan Cole and Chris Bunch.
• The Skilgannon series by David Gemmell.
• The Fencer Trilogy by K.J. Parker.
• "The Hero Must Be One" and the rest of the Ancient cycle by G.L. Oldie (though I don't think there's an English translation).
• [STRIKE]The Amber series by Roger Zelazni.[/STRIKE] Already in Appendix N, it seems.
  
• Vlad Taltos by Steven Brust.
• Tales From The Flat Earth by Tanith Lee.
• Arturo-Perez Reverte, "Capitan Alatriste" (series).

No Gentleman Bastards series? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

An interesting thread, but slightly missing the mark on what Appendix N represents. Appendix N was never intended to be a "great books in fantasy" list, but instead was a list of what inspired Gary Gygax in his development of the game. There may be many awesome fantasy books that inspired you or inspired me, but they didn't necessarily inspire Gary.

Quote from: AsenRG;930172

• The History of the Runestaff by Michael Moorcock.
• The Amber series by Roger Zelazny.

I may be wrong, but I think both of these are in Appendix N.

Quote from: finarvyn;930191An interesting thread, but slightly missing the mark on what Appendix N represents. Appendix N was never intended to be a "great books in fantasy" list, but instead was a list of what inspired Gary Gygax in his development of the game. There may be many awesome fantasy books that inspired you or inspired me, but they didn't necessarily inspire Gary.

The thread is titled "Updating Appendix N" and sadly Gary Gygax is dead. I think the two provide sufficient let to go beyond just what inspired Gary.

QuoteI may be wrong, but I think both of these are in Appendix N.

I can't recall what was in Appendix N. But only the first two books out of the ten or so books in the Amber series were written before D&D was published.

Unrelated tangential note. I started the Amber series by reading the second book in the series. It was kind of confusing. I also started the Lord of the Rings with the Two Towers. That was also kind of confusing. But I'd say it speaks well of the authors that the books held my interest despite some confusion. Since then, I try to read book series starting at the beginning.

Quote from: finarvyn;930191An interesting thread, but slightly missing the mark on what Appendix N represents. Appendix N was never intended to be a "great books in fantasy" list, but instead was a list of what inspired Gary Gygax in his development of the game. There may be many awesome fantasy books that inspired you or inspired me, but they didn't necessarily inspire Gary.


I may be wrong, but I think both of these are in Appendix N.

That might be your point of view. But to me, Appendix N is "Gary Gygax recommends you to read and get inspired by".

Also, History of the Runestaff is published 1979 first, so it couldn't be in the original Appendix N, and quite a few of the Amber books weren't written until even later, so I'm just adding the complete series;).

Quote from: finarvyn;930191I may be wrong, but I think both of these are in Appendix N.

Here is a list of what is in Appendix N:

Anderson, Poul: THREE HEARTS AND THREE LIONS; THE HIGH CRUSADE; THE BROKEN SWORD
 Bellairs, John: THE FACE IN THE FROST
 Brackett, Leigh
 Brown, Frederic
 Burroughs, Edgar Rice: "Pellucidar" series; Mars series; Venus series
 Carter, Lin: "World's End" series
 de Camp, L. Sprague: LEST DARKNESS FALL; THE FALLIBLE FIEND; et al
 de Camp & Pratt: "Harold Shea" series; THE CARNELIAN CUBE
 Derleth, August
 Dunsany, Lord
 Farmer, P. J.: "The World of the Tiers" series; et al
 Fox, Gardner: "Kothar" series; "Kyrik" series; et al
 Howard, R. E.: "Conan" series
 Lanier, Sterling: HIERO'S JOURNEY
 Leiber, Fritz: "Fafhrd & Gray Mouser" series; et al
 Lovecraft, H. P.
 Merritt, A.: CREEP, SHADOW, CREEP; MOON POOL; DWELLERS IN THE MIRAGE; et al
 Moorcock, Michael: STORMBRINGER; STEALER OF SOULS; "Hawkmoon" series (esp. the first three books)
 Norton, Andre
 Offutt, Andrew J.: editor of SWORDS AGAINST DARKNESS III
 Pratt, Fletcher: BLUE STAR; et al
 Saberhagen, Fred: CHANGELING EARTH; et al
 St. Clair, Margaret: THE SHADOW PEOPLE; SIGN OF THE LABRYS
 Tolkien, J. R. R.: THE HOBBIT; "Ring trilogy"
 Vance, Jack: THE EYES OF THE OVERWORLD; THE DYING EARTH; et al
 Weinbaum, Stanley
 Wellman, Manley Wade
 Williamson, Jack
 Zelazny, Roger: JACK OF SHADOWS; "Amber" series; et al

I had to refresh my own memory on its contents.

I would add Lloyd Alexander (The Chronicles of Prydain series especially), Larry Niven (the Warlock's Wheel stories), and the anime Record of Lodoss War (to show what D&D appears to be through the lens of another culture).

Quote from: AsenRG;930212Also, History of the Runestaff is published 1979 first, so it couldn't be in the original Appendix N, and quite a few of the Amber books weren't written until even later, so I'm just adding the complete series;).

The four books that make up HotR were published in the 1960s. I have a dinged up old 1960s paperback of The Runestaff.

Another unrelated tangent. My cousin gave me that book and I read it first. It was fun trying to piece together what was going on without the first 3 books.