Rule Loopholes exploited by players

Headless · December 14, 2017, 09:22:33 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1013681How do you re-educate them?

See the thread with the rules for drowning.

fearsomepirate · December 14, 2017, 11:02:48 AM

Quote from: Voros;1012438Xanathar's Guide to Everything has random monster tables for those too lazy to make them yourself.

I don't want to be creative. That's why I have money.

Willie the Duck · December 14, 2017, 11:03:05 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1013681How do you re-educate them?

"It doesn't work that way at my table. Social mechanics are not just a die roll. You will have to think about what your character says and how. The die roll will cover over some lack of eloquence on your own part, but you're going to have to actually come up with the meat of your argument."

Then it is just insistence/enforcement ("yes, that is the way it's going to be." "No. We're going to try this." "If you want to GM, feel free") and then trial and error.

Tod13 · December 15, 2017, 08:49:22 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1013681How do you re-educate them?

I just always ask the player "how do you try to convince them" and remind them that I give bonuses for good or amusing plans. After 3-4 sessions, they usually get the idea and even embrace the role-playing aspect. This is how my players created Cave Catering.

Tod13 · December 15, 2017, 09:01:24 AM

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1013698I don't want to be creative. That's why I have money.

Or I spend my creativity elsewhere. (Or I'm bad at A and good at B, so I want a book to help with A.) ;-)

Xanther · December 15, 2017, 11:49:50 AM

Quote from: bryce0lynch;1008125Someone shows up at your OP game with a character that is infinitely powerful. They found a rule loophole, and it seems legal.
What would you do?

....

Well don't think I've ever run a game system that is that broken, and now days have my own home system so not possible. Seems legal? Well if it is the game system is clearly broken. I'd have the player walk me through exactly, step by detailed step how they go to this character. If legal note the exploit and fix it and/or build an NPC with it, then you decide if this character fits in the power level at your table.

In my experience, back when experienced these things, in every case the player with the uber build cheated and/or ignored certain of the rules.

Xanther · December 15, 2017, 12:02:28 PM

Quote from: Cave Bear;1008239Let's get more specific.

Let's say you're playing D&D 3.5. A player creates a 1st level Psychic Warrior. For purposes of this scenario, let's say that you've decided to allow psionics in your campaign, but that you have the power to adjudicate any ambiguities in the rules.

Now, this psychic warrior has taken the Call Weaponry power at 1st level. Here is the power's rules:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/callWeaponry.htm

How do you rule in the following situations?
1. The psychic warrior calls an elvencraft longbow (from Races of the Wild) to their hand.
2. The psychic warrior calls a splash weapon, such as a flask of holy water, to their hand.
3. The psychic warrior calls an improvised weapon, such as a lantern, to their hand.
4. The psychic warrior calls a siege weapon, such as a ballista, to their hand.
5. The psychic warrior calls a monk's unarmed strike to their hand.

First what a poorly written power open to abuse and way over powered for 1st Level. This is easily addressed by the definition of "weapon" and "kind."

1. Elvencraft longbow is too specific, the kind of weapon you get is a bow.
2. "Splash weapon" is a game term, but would allow to call an oil flask to ones hand, probably holy water. Either way a reasonable and not over powered request.
3. Again improvised weapon is a game term, not even a weapon. I would only count as a weapon those objects specifically designed to cause violent harm.
4. I like Gronan's take; let it appear and crush them. More likely I'd define weapon to mean handheld weapon, so one sized no larger than a lance.
5. That is not a weapon but an ability.

Xanther · December 15, 2017, 12:09:19 PM

Quote from: Skarg;1009076It seems to me clearly false that all games can be read/interpreted properly to have rules loopholes that make a basic character invincible.

Well he didn't say read properly.

There is always someone out there with a poor grasp of context and grammar who will try to misread rules to their advantage.

Skarg · December 15, 2017, 12:19:10 PM

Yes, which is broken reading, not broken games.

Bren · December 15, 2017, 04:07:58 PM

Quote from: Skarg;1013935Yes, which is broken reading, not broken games.

Yeah the fact that you, the player, can't read doesn't mean that I, the GM, have a system that needs fixing. (Generic "you".)

fearsomepirate · December 15, 2017, 04:40:19 PM

If you're the GM, and you go with the reading that is most likely to ruin the game, you deserve what happens.

Imaginos · December 15, 2017, 04:45:20 PM

Quote from: Cave Bear;1008239Let's get more specific.

Let's say you're playing D&D 3.5. A player creates a 1st level Psychic Warrior. For purposes of this scenario, let's say that you've decided to allow psionics in your campaign, but that you have the power to adjudicate any ambiguities in the rules.

Now, this psychic warrior has taken the Call Weaponry power at 1st level. Here is the power's rules:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/callWeaponry.htm

How do you rule in the following situations?
1. The psychic warrior calls an elvencraft longbow (from Races of the Wild) to their hand.
2. The psychic warrior calls a splash weapon, such as a flask of holy water, to their hand.
3. The psychic warrior calls an improvised weapon, such as a lantern, to their hand.
4. The psychic warrior calls a siege weapon, such as a ballista, to their hand.
5. The psychic warrior calls a monk's unarmed strike to their hand.

I see that I am a bit more free than some others here.

1. Sure thing. It is valid in the game. Still follows the rest of the rules tied to the power.
2. I'd allow it, but not with 3d6 ammo. You get the one splash weapon. Honestly, kind of a cool use of the power.
3. Same as # 2. Except even more cool.
4. Nope. I'd read it as something they need to be able to carry/hold.
5. Nope, that one makes no sense. Not calling an item, that is calling an ability.

RPGPundit · December 17, 2017, 01:56:06 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1013681How do you re-educate them?

More delicately than you might think. First of all, I don't usually run systems with social mechanics. So that obstacle is out of the way. Then I require that they describe/explain just what they are trying to do with their social interactions, getting them to have to actually think about it rather than saying "i roll diplomacy". And if possible, get them to where they're actually just roleplaying said interactions, but it is also acceptable for someone who is not a great speaker to do a combination of conversation and description.

Xanther · December 18, 2017, 10:10:11 AM

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1012403When old editions leave something for the ref they are "incomplete" or "badly written."

When new editions leave something for the ref they are "advanced" and "imaginative."

Why exactly!

Old edition text, rules and description was "advanced" and "imaginative"

New edition text, rules and description is "incomplete" and "badly written"

There is a lot of conceit and fan worship in both new and old, less so context and objectivity.

Personally, for me, a lot of touted new game systems are badly written, with incomplete rules and inadequate concepts to fill in the gaps. Not very excusable given the authors are not starting from scratch, and have 40 years of RPG history and experience to draw from.

Xanther · December 18, 2017, 10:38:15 AM

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1013681How do you re-educate them?

My own answer is similar to previous. I ask players what they are seeking to achieve, and how they wish to approach convincing the NPC. I'll then give the player a bit of a critique as there character would know it. It that a good or bad idea with this NPC, etc. Typically this gets into a back-n-forth question and answer which can readily evolve into role playing it out with the NPC. All that modifies whatever rolls need to be made.