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'Ultimate' AD&D 1E

Started by Kaz, July 27, 2012, 10:20:21 AM

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Kaz

July 27, 2012, 10:20:21 AM
I ended up getting copies of 1E at Half-Price books last night. $9.99 apiece. I dunno if the reprints are diluting that market, but I had never seen 1E at the store before and I was surprised by the lower price.

I am glad to have them as much for history as anything else but I would also like to make use of these. I already own (for various reasons) Unearthed Arcana and the Fiend Folio (both I half-assed used with the RC).

I cut my teeth on 2E back in the early-to-mid 90s. I have never played a game of 1E.

I recently made investments in Adventurer Conquerer King and Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG and having tried them both and like them, I would also like to play those games. AAHH!!!  Burdened with the curse of too many excellent choices.

That got me to thinking. What would it look like to take 1st Edition as a base and add modern things to it?

UA, obviously, offers some different things. Already I have thought about using the proficiencies/skills from ACKS. And I would just love to figure out how to bolt the DCC magic system on 1E. That would be the tits.

Any ideas how either of those could work? Any ideas on other systems/things to be stolen?
"Tony wrecks in the race because he forgot to plug his chest piece thing in. Look, I\'m as guilty as any for letting my cell phone die because I forget to plug it in before I go to bed. And while my phone is an important tool for my daily life, it is not a life-saving device that KEEPS MY HEART FROM EXPLODING. Fuck, Tony. Get your shit together, pal."
Booze, Boobs and Robot Boots: The Tony Stark Saga.

Exploderwizard

#1
July 27, 2012, 10:46:15 AM
I would first recommend running/playing some 1E as it is.

It is useful to know how a system runs in actual play before tinkering with it. Once you have an idea how the game runs as a whole, then you can start modifying the parts where change is desirable.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

thedungeondelver

#2
July 27, 2012, 11:03:43 AM
"Ultimate" AD&D isn't what you think, Kaz.  Ultimate AD&D is AD&D without the dross; play with the 3 books you've got and go from there.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

The Butcher

#3
July 27, 2012, 11:19:43 AM Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 11:25:59 AM by The Butcher
Kaz, we're on the same boat; I too cut my teeth on AD&D 2e (and D&D RC -- dig the avatar, BTW :)) and I dig 1e. I have the 1e core books in PDF and I'm looking into picking up either the reprints, or most likely a used copy in good shape. I like reading 1e, not just because of uncle Gary's ornate purple prose, but because the game has a certain grit, a certain panache to it that's missing from the latter editions.

I too think that the world deserves a tribute game that does for AD&D 1e what DCC did for B/X, and what ACKS did for BECMI/RC.

Castles & Crusades tried to be "Ultimate 1e" and it didn't quite work out as they intended. I still use C&C, with some modifications, when I get the itch to run an AD&D scenario. But I think Jeff Talanian's Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea (thread about it here) stands a very good chance of being the "Ultimate 1e" we speak of.

thedungeondelver

#4
July 27, 2012, 11:33:10 AM
Quote from: The Butcher;565235I too think that the world deserves a tribute game that does for AD&D 1e what DCC did for B/X, and what ACKS did for BECMI/RC.

No it doesn't.  Just fucking play 1e.  My god people, it's not hard to figure out.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

Drohem

#5
July 27, 2012, 11:38:46 AM
You should play two games:

1.  AD&D core only
2.  AD&D core + Unearthed Arcana

Game play changes between the two with the new classes, new races, new racial limits, new ability score generation methods, and new spells.

The Butcher

#6
July 27, 2012, 11:43:35 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;565244No it doesn't.  Just fucking play 1e.  My god people, it's not hard to figure out.

Chill, TDD. I promiss not to take your 1e books away. :D

Seriously, though. What's your beef with people hacking away at your favorite game, appending a few new things and publishing the result? Three guys in NYC did this to my favorite D&D (RC) and I thought it was awesome.

Philotomy Jurament

#7
July 27, 2012, 11:43:41 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;565244No it doesn't.  Just fucking play 1e.  My god people, it's not hard to figure out.

QFMFT
The problem is not that power corrupts, but that the corruptible are irresistibly drawn to the pursuit of power. Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.

Sacrosanct

#8
July 27, 2012, 11:45:28 AM
We all played with what rules we wanted to play with.  I don't think I've ever met someone who played with every single rule in the AD&D books.

So go with what works for you, and have fun.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Exploderwizard

#9
July 27, 2012, 11:50:43 AM
Hacking a system is all well and good, but has little value if you aren't that familliar with the system to begin with.

I have never played Runequest. If my intent was to try and make the ultimate edition of Runequest, hopefully I would learn about the actual game, and play it before sitting down to write the "ultimate" version.

Until you play, you don't know if the ultimate version of a game isn't the game itself.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

thedungeondelver

#10
July 27, 2012, 11:51:37 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;565257Hacking a system is all well and good, but has little value if you aren't that familliar with the system to begin with.

This.  Without a doubt.
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

Kaz

#11
July 27, 2012, 12:34:30 PM
C'mon, it's not like I'm experiencing RPGs for the first time ever. There's plenty to be familiar with coming from a background that includes the RC and 2E.

I don't think the Runequest analogy works, in that regard.

And, to me at least, the awesome thing about D&D is the ability to make a gestalt out of all its versions. Or add or take things away. (I regularly created new classes or reskinned old ones in RC, for example.)

I very much appreciate your opinions, certainly, but I would also like some discussion about the actually doing of these things. I don't think ACKS profs would break the game. And I think I can make DCC's spell system work...
"Tony wrecks in the race because he forgot to plug his chest piece thing in. Look, I\'m as guilty as any for letting my cell phone die because I forget to plug it in before I go to bed. And while my phone is an important tool for my daily life, it is not a life-saving device that KEEPS MY HEART FROM EXPLODING. Fuck, Tony. Get your shit together, pal."
Booze, Boobs and Robot Boots: The Tony Stark Saga.

monkeyfaceratboy

#12
July 27, 2012, 01:07:37 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;565255We all played with what rules we wanted to play with.  I don't think I've ever met someone who played with every single rule in the AD&D books.

So go with what works for you, and have fun.

This.  I've been playing AD&D 1e off and on since 1980. I've fallen into a comfortable place of just using the rules I like, and ignoring those I don't. E.G:  Never did figure out segments or the unarmed combat rules, so I just ignore them.

Looking back on it, "back in the day", much of the fun of playing AD&D was that every group had a slightly different way to play. Everyone agreed on the core, fundamental material that made up what "AD&D" was. But then everyone tweaked it, and fiddled with it slightly to make it work for them.

Play, mold, have fun with it.

estar

#13
July 27, 2012, 01:10:03 PM
I recommend looking over ADDICT to help understand how to run the AD&D combat system as intended. Note most people wind up using Basic D&D combat with AD&D Options.

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/php4/archive.php?sectioninit=FE&fileid=263&watchfile=0

Some things I learned from it that I didn't understand back in the day were

Attacks/Spells go off on the segment indicated by the opposing side's die roll. If I roll a 5 and you roll a 3 and I try to cast fireball (3 segment casting time), it will start on segment 3 and complete on segment 6. You will still be able to attack me on segment 5 (my die roll) and if you hit spoil the spell. If the spell and weapon attack go off on the same segment then they occur simultaneously.

In a sense each side is rolling to see when the other side goes. The later in the round their opponents can act the better off they are.

When Initiative is tied, weapons speeds determine who go first. If difference in weapon speed is great enough then side with the lower weapon speed may get multiple attacks.

estar

#14
July 27, 2012, 01:14:18 PM
And before anybody rants about how stupid AD&D combat is there is a clear line of development from Chainmail to AD&D. Basically AD&D 1st is the ultimate refinement of the combat system first presented in Chainmail. Weapon Speed, Weapon vs AC, missile combat, all originated in the Man to Man combat section of Chainmail.

With that being said there were more a few things thrown in "just because" notably the unarmed combat system which apparently even Gygax never used.
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