Quote from: Rhedyn on July 06, 2021, 11:13:25 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 06, 2021, 12:05:28 AM]Leftists want every setting to be political indoctrination into their 21st century Seattle/Portland values.

If you had a setting where women didn't wear pants, saying "women don't wear pants" is not a political statement. If running a game in a historical setting with conventional morality and customs of that historical period is a "political statement", you're saying people can't run games set in those eras. You're essentially demanding the destruction of history.

It's pretty trivial to point out in your game what is a setting social pressure vs something presented as an objective fact.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 06, 2021, 12:08:02 AM

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 05, 2021, 05:49:55 PM

COVID, wearing masks, and vaccination also became political since a party leader decided to have opinions on it. The only real difference between the Right politicizing issues and the Left, is that it's so stupid that any grand conspiracy I could attribute to it still seems stupid.

If Trump acted quicker, implemented border quarantine rules, and encouraged wearing masks and contact tracing/self-quarantining. The number of lockdowns and overall deaths would have been reduced so much that he would still be president. None of the pre-vaccine methods were going to do much with a third of Americans refusing to follow them and new flare up being imported daily.

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

This is veering into an off-topic political post. This is not a place to make political discussions outside of gaming. Please keep your posts to talking about politics only WITHIN the subject of gaming.

Consider this a warning.

Now who is making things political that aren't? Every statement in there was made political by "The Right".

Ever consider how stupid, "Rightest make everything political even basic science to exert control and gain political power." sounds? You believe in all these "The Left" conspiracy theories. Have you ever considered that it's just a bunch of people disagreeing with others being assholes and not some coordinated effort to come after your hobbies?

Mobs are controlled by emotional impulses, and that cuts both ways.

We should all defer to your clearly greater experience in being controlled by emotional impulses.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2021, 08:21:14 AM
And so it is with gaming. It used to be nobody minded if, to draw an example, Shark liked Twilight 2000 and I was happily running Paranoia. It was okay! Obviously we wouldn't have much overlap beyond the core 'we all roll the polyhedral dice'. Now, though, we have some dangerhaired lackwit insisting both Shark and I are terrible people for enjoying T2000 or Paranoia and we should be playing Coyote and Crow (and throw some money to make up for our privilege, too).

Thing have become far more political in the last few years, but one-true-wayism has been around since the start as far as I can tell. I saw plenty of online fights in the 1990s where people argued in favor of their preferred system, and insulted those playing others. GURPS vs Hero, diceless vs dice-using, D&D vs White Wolf, etc. Usenet moderators tried to split flamewars out of rec.games.frp.misc into rec.games.frp.advocacy.

And in the 2000s that carried over onto this and other forums. On The Forge, Ron Edwards insulted wide swaths of people playing traditional games. Here, Pundit and others said that people were terrible for enjoying the Blue Rose RPG.

In the right circumstances, I'll play with almost anyone that doesn't hate me and want me dead.  Where the disagreement arises is with people that think they don't hate me and want me dead when put in those terms, but in practice the way they act would make that the case.  The term "useless idiots" wasn't coined by the West.

There was a time when I would have played with a useless idiot if they could keep their mouths shut about their idiocy while the game was going--if for no other reasons merely good manners.  Now, most of them seemed to have lost whatever remaining filter they might have once possessed.

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 06, 2021, 11:13:25 AM
Now who is making things political that aren't? Every statement in there was made political by "The Right".

Ever consider how stupid, "Rightest make everything political even basic science to exert control and gain political power." sounds? You believe in all these "The Left" conspiracy theories. Have you ever considered that it's just a bunch of people disagreeing with others being assholes and not some coordinated effort to come after your hobbies?

Mobs are controlled by emotional impulses, and that cuts both ways.

This isn't a debate about what is or is not political; this is a warning against posting things that are OFF-TOPIC to the subject of gaming. If you started a post in this thread about trains, or volleyball, or alfalfa cultivation, with nothing to do with the specific subject of the subforum, you are posting off-topic.

Quote from: jhkim on July 06, 2021, 03:46:11 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on July 06, 2021, 08:21:14 AM
And so it is with gaming. It used to be nobody minded if, to draw an example, Shark liked Twilight 2000 and I was happily running Paranoia. It was okay! Obviously we wouldn't have much overlap beyond the core 'we all roll the polyhedral dice'. Now, though, we have some dangerhaired lackwit insisting both Shark and I are terrible people for enjoying T2000 or Paranoia and we should be playing Coyote and Crow (and throw some money to make up for our privilege, too).

Thing have become far more political in the last few years, but one-true-wayism has been around since the start as far as I can tell. I saw plenty of online fights in the 1990s where people argued in favor of their preferred system, and insulted those playing others. GURPS vs Hero, diceless vs dice-using, D&D vs White Wolf, etc. Usenet moderators tried to split flamewars out of rec.games.frp.misc into rec.games.frp.advocacy.

And in the 2000s that carried over onto this and other forums. On The Forge, Ron Edwards insulted wide swaths of people playing traditional games. Here, Pundit and others said that people were terrible for enjoying the Blue Rose RPG.

Nice false equivalence. When was one-true-wayism used to destroy people's lives and drive them to suicide?

When an argument over "You're playing wrong" turned into a mob outside someone's house trying to break in and kill the people inside?

You're comparing stupid arguments among people with a mob of religious zealots.

Quote from: Rafael on July 05, 2021, 01:23:00 AM

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 11:32:54 PM

Quote from: Pat on July 04, 2021, 11:06:15 PM

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 10:29:18 PM

Saying "these politics are dumb and don't matter" is a strong political statement.

Only in Bizarro world. In any approximation of the real world, saying politics are dumb and don't matter is pretty much the definition of apolitical.

"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being anti-abortion (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being anti-slavery (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being racist (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being feminist (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being white (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being against universal background checks (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being pro democracy (laughs)."

Nothing sounds political there to you?

That's pretty much the point here I was trying to make a few pages earlier. Personally I would not get riled up about a statement like Ernie's, but I fully understand how people might be. Context matters. Ernie might not have intended to make a political statement, and your dad might not have intended to call your mom fat - but the result is all the same.

I understand the Pundit's criticism of the Twitter mob, and I understand the annoyance many others  have expressed - but Ernie's bad decision-making should not be the hill many of us choose to die on. FWIW, he reminds me of how Mark Rein-Hagen used to poop on Twitter every couple of weeks, just a few years ago. - Wake me up when this fool actually contributes anything positive to the hobby other than never-ending durr-ama.

To return to an argument I was initially making - the community should be more careful to who it is lending the airtime. Ernie Gygax ain't Christopher Tolkien. The first mistake here is not Ernie saying what he said; it was that he was talking at all. Let's find legit ways for the 60+ crowd in the hobby to contribute in ways that don't require them to whore themselves out to "strip club owner"-type business people. Once we're there, things will fall in place.

That's kind of crappy to say.  Older gamers or old-fashioned / old-school gamers should be seen and not heard?  We should find something for them to do in the back?  Keep them busy so the younger, flashy, nu-speak gamers can navigate the treacherous political waters?

Maybe this whole incident was the lightning rod we needed right now to charge up that hill and die upon it, if need be.  The fighting back should have started years ago.  The silent majority seems to be waking up now, that's good.  But don't go back to sleep.  Keep fighting!

TSR 3.0 is now the Schrodingers TSR. They both the literal old TSR and not the old TSR "in any way."

First they claimed they were the TSR which started Gencon (though Gencon was started 5 years before the original TSR):







And then they claim they are not the old TSR "in any way."

It's a chimera, dancing in a mirage, that smells like sweet shit, while wrapped in gold chiffon, hog-tied in a gift-basket with red lipstick and hand-drawn eyebrows scrawled on its head.

I have no idea what to make of it except I want nothing to do with it.

I'm just waiting for them to put out a game.  It seems like something that a gaming company should do.

Quote from: VengerSatanis on July 07, 2021, 12:19:30 PM
...
Maybe this whole incident was the lightning rod we needed right now to charge up that hill and die upon it, if need be.  The fighting back should have started years ago.  The silent majority seems to be waking up now, that's good.  But don't go back to sleep.  Keep fighting!

I disagree.

The fact is that Ernie & Co. / NuTSR are not allies:
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/tsr-is-coming-back-or-it-is-back/

Just on page one in that thread - it is obvious for anyone with eyes to see that NuTSR was going to be a train wreck from the start.

Pundits instinct was right - it was just a nostalgia money grab.

Even Mistwell's post is right on point here; these guys don't know whether they are coming or going...

That this incident might serve to wake a few people up - fine.


But NuTSR is a compost pile, not Rorke's Drift.

The wokeoso's are playing a variant of one of the left's favorite games: "Look at the Crazy X..."

Insert 'christian' or 'consrvative' or in this case 'Grognard gamer' in place of X.

They love, love, love, to find a crazy outlier to gin up an outrage storm against; to then conflate them with the rest of everyone else that the can say is adjacent to them that they don't like.

So they found a semi functional adult sperg to beat up on, which because of his last name they are trying to drag down people they don't like with him.

Aside from mocking them a bit and pointing out their tactics it's best to not feed the outrage machine at this point.


I will say that the way that this was jumped on so hard shows signs that the SJW cognoscenti seemed to feel very threatened by the potential resurgence of the old brand for some reason...

It was obvious to anyone that NuTSR was going nowhere. Total flash in the pan.

But the idea of a TSR resurgence?? They didn't like that At All. 

Straight to total curb-stomp mode...

Quote from: Jaeger on July 07, 2021, 02:14:01 PM

Quote from: VengerSatanis on July 07, 2021, 12:19:30 PM
...
Maybe this whole incident was the lightning rod we needed right now to charge up that hill and die upon it, if need be.  The fighting back should have started years ago.  The silent majority seems to be waking up now, that's good.  But don't go back to sleep.  Keep fighting!

I disagree.

The fact is that Ernie & Co. / NuTSR are not allies:
https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/tsr-is-coming-back-or-it-is-back/

Just on page one in that thread - it is obvious for anyone with eyes to see that NuTSR was going to be a train wreck from the start.

Pundits instinct was right - it was just a nostalgia money grab.

Even Mistwell's post is right on point here; these guys don't know whether they are coming or going...

That this incident might serve to wake a few people up - fine.


But NuTSR is a compost pile, not Rorke's Drift.

The wokeoso's are playing a variant of one of the left's favorite games: "Look at the Crazy X..."

Insert 'christian' or 'consrvative' or in this case 'Grognard gamer' in place of X.

They love, love, love, to find a crazy outlier to gin up an outrage storm against; to then conflate them with the rest of everyone else that the can say is adjacent to them that they don't like.

So they found a semi functional adult sperg to beat up on, which because of his last name they are trying to drag down people they don't like with him.

Aside from mocking them a bit and pointing out their tactics it's best to not feed the outrage machine at this point.


I will say that the way that this was jumped on so hard shows signs that the SJW cognoscenti seemed to feel very threatened by the potential resurgence of the old brand for some reason...

It was obvious to anyone that NuTSR was going nowhere. Total flash in the pan.

But the idea of a TSR resurgence?? They didn't like that At All. 

Straight to total curb-stomp mode...

I don't think it is fear of resurgence.  I think it is fear of their allies. 
They have reached the 'eating their own' stage and some of them know it.  Anything that can turn the mob outward buys them more time before they get tossed in the cart.

Quote from: Mistwell on July 07, 2021, 01:20:51 PM
TSR 3.0 is now the Schrodingers TSR. They both the literal old TSR and not the old TSR "in any way."

First they claimed they were the TSR which started Gencon (though Gencon was started 5 years before the original TSR):







And then they claim they are not the old TSR "in any way."

I'll trust Sandy Petersen over Fredo Gygax any day.

And now the TSR_games Twitter account is gone. Like Keyser Soze and the TSR Games new PR guy "Michael."

Quote from: Mistwell on July 07, 2021, 03:47:07 PM
And now the TSR_games Twitter account is gone. Like Keyser Soze and the TSR Games new PR guy "Michael."

If they droped out of twatter altogether that's the smartest decision I have seen them do.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 07, 2021, 03:35:55 PMI'll trust Sandy Petersen over Fredo Gygax any day.

A user who goes by the handle of Gradine over at another board said, "RPG Pundit and his crew are known quantities at this point, and Jim chose to appear on their podcast."

Pundit, do you have a podcast, and do you have a crew, and has you or your crew had Jim Ward appear on your podcast? News to me if that happened.