Quote from: Rafael on June 29, 2021, 09:28:34 AM

Quote from: FingerRod on June 29, 2021, 09:10:33 AMOk, but for the record it took Ratman five syllables and a question mark to expose the fact that, no, Ernie did not say that gay people "kinda" suck. Accusing and implying is how we got here in the first place, where I guess it is acceptable to lose your company and your already crappy reputation in less than a second.

I was still editing my post when you replied, sorry. Mind you, I harbor Gygax no ill will. I would very much like for those operations to become less of a shitfest, though, and his is definitely not the way to do it.

Quote from: oggsmash on June 29, 2021, 09:12:30 AMI will sum up, you just made it up.

No, U maed it upp! - What is this? "Sea-lioning"?

This is what Ernie said, verbatim, that got everybody quacking - in case you fancy a reminder:

QuoteThere's a ton of artists and game designers and people that play..... and recently they were dissed for being old-fashioned, possibly anti modern trends, and enforcing, or even having the concepts of gender identity

Within the borders of civility, this is perhaps the single most stupid and unprofessional thing he could have said. Now, I'm happy to argue whether this is 60% stupid or 70% stupid, but we should not argue that it's "hella" stupid. He has no opinion there, he's not a martyr, he's being a dumbass. - And his follow-up tweet, about the supposed "Christian values": Dear God, this guy has not one friend left in the world who tells him to shut up when it would be better for him. "No gay jokes, Ernie!" - "What?" - "NO GAY JOKES, ERNIE!!!" - "Ok." ...Aaaand, problem solved.

Even Gay people understand the concept of gender identity.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on June 29, 2021, 04:04:50 PM

Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2021, 03:52:42 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 29, 2021, 02:19:55 PM

Quote from: Torque2100 on June 29, 2021, 10:13:03 AM
I think Tim Kask is pretty on the money here.  You don't have to bend the knee but there's something to be said for not deliberately antagonizing the SJW types

Why not? The SJWS are NEVER EVER going to buy a gaming product. At least not for gaming. And certainly  not from anyone who isn't one of their fellow psychopaths.

The very best thing that could happen would be if EVERY SINGLE REGULAR GAMER and regular game designer were to openly defy them. Their power over the hobby would be broken in a day. Same could be said of every other aspect of society.

I absolutely support having conservative gaming products that openly declare their opposition. There should be a variety of gaming products. Thus far, it seems they haven't had success comparable to explicitly liberal-themed gaming products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow. But that's not a reason not to try.

That's an interesting definition of success you got there.

Pundit's remark on the 'Do the Struggle Session Recitation' tweet is on point. Forced affirmation will not create acceptance.

Quite the contrary; it breeds resentment.

Eventually it will reach a point where the backlash comes and the dumb fat dangerhairs who were just going along with what the media tells them is the "In" crowd will find themselves in a fire and those on the butt end of being cancelled won't pour water on the fire, they'll pour gasoline.

Less than 1% of the population even HAS a Twitter account. Someone's spent a lot of PR capital on convincing people in charge of various companies that it's the majority voice of the people and should be listened to above all else instead of a cesspool of the 1% freaks.

WotC and the other Wokers are catering to a tiny slice of the pie and while they haven't alienated enough of the common gamers while doing so YET, it's just a matter of time until it hits critical mass at which point the collapse of support will be sudden.

Quote from: shoplifter on June 29, 2021, 04:10:52 PM

Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2021, 03:52:42 PM
I absolutely support having conservative gaming products that openly declare their opposition. There should be a variety of gaming products. Thus far, it seems they haven't had success comparable to explicitly liberal-themed gaming products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow. But that's not a reason not to try.

Any idea why? I have a theory, but I'm curious as to your thoughts.

I don't really know. I would think that there are plenty of conservative gamers - and they seem to have their preferred channels such as Youtube, but maybe they're a more fractured market in terms of their gaming taste?

One thing to note is that Internet forums might be a good predictor of Kickstarter campaigns, but they're likely not a good predictor of the wider gaming market. I think plenty of these Kickstarters - including Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow - probably aren't going to result in consistent actual play, but then, the vast majority of RPGs in general aren't successful.

Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2021, 05:17:50 PM
One thing to note is that Internet forums might be a good predictor of Kickstarter campaigns, but they're likely not a good predictor of the wider gaming market. I think plenty of these Kickstarters - including Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow - probably aren't going to result in consistent actual play, but then, the vast majority of RPGs in general aren't successful.

I think we're kind of on the same page - I don't see some of these 'progressive darlings' getting any actual play but people might be willing to throw some money at them to feel good. On the opposite side of the coin, conservative gamers (not necessarily the general public, fwiw, I think a lot of "conservative" gamers are actually classical liberals, myself included, but I could be wrong here) just want a good product and don't care who makes it? I don't have any problem with stuff like Thirsty Sword Lesbians existing in the market, there's room for anything and everything in the RPG space, I'm just not interested it that sort of game at all.

Just a stab, and of course it isn't meant to be a blanket statement. I think we've definitely seen products squarely aimed at traditional conservatives that have done well due to that marketing, but I don't see it being a major selling point in gaming. I *do* see a place for products that are unabashedly anti-political and/or anti-identitarian, though.

Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2021, 03:52:42 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 29, 2021, 02:19:55 PM

Quote from: Torque2100 on June 29, 2021, 10:13:03 AM
I think Tim Kask is pretty on the money here.  You don't have to bend the knee but there's something to be said for not deliberately antagonizing the SJW types

Why not? The SJWS are NEVER EVER going to buy a gaming product. At least not for gaming. And certainly  not from anyone who isn't one of their fellow psychopaths.

The very best thing that could happen would be if EVERY SINGLE REGULAR GAMER and regular game designer were to openly defy them. Their power over the hobby would be broken in a day. Same could be said of every other aspect of society.

I absolutely support having conservative gaming products that openly declare their opposition. There should be a variety of gaming products. Thus far, it seems they haven't had success comparable to explicitly liberal-themed gaming products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow. But that's not a reason not to try.

Why should there be? Regular gamers don't want "conservative games", they want GAMES THAT AREN'T POLITICAL INDOCTRINATION.  And in that sense the plethora of OSR games are doing very well, my own products included.

Quote from: Silas1066 on June 29, 2021, 10:25:40 AMwe don't see WOTC people getting cancelled.

I seem to remember Mike Mearls, Chris Perkins, Satine Phoenix, and Chris Crawford all being on the receiving end of various defamatory statements over social media.

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 29, 2021, 05:58:50 PM

Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2021, 03:52:42 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 29, 2021, 02:19:55 PM

Quote from: Torque2100 on June 29, 2021, 10:13:03 AM
I think Tim Kask is pretty on the money here.  You don't have to bend the knee but there's something to be said for not deliberately antagonizing the SJW types

Why not? The SJWS are NEVER EVER going to buy a gaming product. At least not for gaming. And certainly  not from anyone who isn't one of their fellow psychopaths.

The very best thing that could happen would be if EVERY SINGLE REGULAR GAMER and regular game designer were to openly defy them. Their power over the hobby would be broken in a day. Same could be said of every other aspect of society.

I absolutely support having conservative gaming products that openly declare their opposition. There should be a variety of gaming products. Thus far, it seems they haven't had success comparable to explicitly liberal-themed gaming products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow. But that's not a reason not to try.

Why should there be? Regular gamers don't want "conservative games", they want GAMES THAT AREN'T POLITICAL INDOCTRINATION.  And in that sense the plethora of OSR games are doing very well, my own products included.

Greetings!

Right, right Pundit. Yes, that is old thinking though.

We know from our Marxist elites that anything tight of Mao is "Far Right" and "White Supremacy".

Beyond ideological tenets or implied philosophy, there is the more explicit demands, growing louder all the time--

"If someone doesn't support LGBTQ, they are hate-filled bigots! We need to always fight these evil fascists whenever we can, and destroy them utterly."

"SILENCE IS WHITE VIOLENCE"

"Any company squirming and tap dancing not wanting to be "political" is merely code-speak for White Supremacy. No, anyone seeking to "Remain Neutral" or "Non-Political" is just as evil as the rest of the White Supremacists. They ARE White Supremacists, they are just living in denial, or trying to have it both ways so they can keep getting money. That isn't fucking good enough, and it isn't acceptable. Yu are either on board with acceptance, inclusion, and Justice--or you get destroyed."

"If you can't support true Social Justice, PUBLICLY--then you are just dog-whistling for the hate-filled Racist bigots. The White Supremacists, all of these traditional, happy fucking white heteronormative tyrants are trying to gate-keep and oppress the people. IT IS OUR HOBBY! OUR SPACE! OUR VOICES! The White Supremacists and bigots of the OSR need to be crushed. They have no business being anywhere near OUR HOBBY, and OUR GAMES!"

This all can sometimes feel so surreal, like we are living in some kind of fucked up episode of the Twilight Zone. Anyone, any game company, any gamer--that doesn't absolutely support Trans, Marxism, BLM, etc--and make their art, and their games just like Seattle 2021--are all, by definition, evil, racist bigots that support White Supremacy. It isn't really about gaming as it is a full-scale social assault to brainwash people into embracing the ideology, or brow-beat opponents into abject submission. Many more of them are also calling for opponents to be cancelled, financially ruined, and crushed--and even beaten to death and killed. YOU, the white people, the traditionalists, Conservatives, Christians, TRUMP SUPPORTERS, are all the ENEMY.

"Regular Gamers" are the ENEMY. I know you know this all too, Pundit. It is just so mind-boggling that so many of these people really do want "Regular Gamers" to be beaten to death, and killed in horrible ways. And it isn't just the Marxist, Libtard men, either. The Purple haired, trans/pierced hippo women also want "Regular Gamers" to be killed in terrible ways. The seething hatred for "Regular Gamers" never stops.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: mightybrain on June 29, 2021, 07:09:13 PM

Quote from: Silas1066 on June 29, 2021, 10:25:40 AMwe don't see WOTC people getting cancelled.

I seem to remember Mike Mearls, Chris Perkins, Satine Phoenix, and Chris Crawford all being on the receiving end of various defamatory statements over social media.

The revolution eventually eats its own.

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 29, 2021, 05:58:50 PM

Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2021, 03:52:42 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 29, 2021, 02:19:55 PM

Quote from: Torque2100 on June 29, 2021, 10:13:03 AM
I think Tim Kask is pretty on the money here.  You don't have to bend the knee but there's something to be said for not deliberately antagonizing the SJW types

Why not? The SJWS are NEVER EVER going to buy a gaming product. At least not for gaming. And certainly  not from anyone who isn't one of their fellow psychopaths.

The very best thing that could happen would be if EVERY SINGLE REGULAR GAMER and regular game designer were to openly defy them. Their power over the hobby would be broken in a day. Same could be said of every other aspect of society.

I absolutely support having conservative gaming products that openly declare their opposition. There should be a variety of gaming products. Thus far, it seems they haven't had success comparable to explicitly liberal-themed gaming products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow. But that's not a reason not to try.

Why should there be? Regular gamers don't want "conservative games", they want GAMES THAT AREN'T POLITICAL INDOCTRINATION.  And in that sense the plethora of OSR games are doing very well, my own products included.

You advocated deliberately antagonizing SJWs -- as I have bolded above. That sounds different than just releasing apolitical games. As for how well products are doing: the main numbers I have are from Kickstarter. The top OSR Kickstarters in recent times include:

Old School Essentials: Advanced Fantasy : $291k
Worlds Without Number : $223k

The more explicitly liberal RPG releases include

Thirsty Sword Lesbians : $298k
Coyote and Crow : $1,073k

These are slightly ahead of the OSR releases, and at least in the range of top other recent non-OSR releases, like:

Grim Hollow: The Monster Grimoire : $1,348k
Grim Hollow: The Players Guide : $741k
More Magic Items for 5E : $663k
Twilight: 2000 : $651k
Creatures: Complete Monster Compendium for 5E : $531k

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 29, 2021, 05:58:50 PM

Quote from: jhkim on June 29, 2021, 03:52:42 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on June 29, 2021, 02:19:55 PM

Quote from: Torque2100 on June 29, 2021, 10:13:03 AM
I think Tim Kask is pretty on the money here.  You don't have to bend the knee but there's something to be said for not deliberately antagonizing the SJW types

Why not? The SJWS are NEVER EVER going to buy a gaming product. At least not for gaming. And certainly  not from anyone who isn't one of their fellow psychopaths.

The very best thing that could happen would be if EVERY SINGLE REGULAR GAMER and regular game designer were to openly defy them. Their power over the hobby would be broken in a day. Same could be said of every other aspect of society.

I absolutely support having conservative gaming products that openly declare their opposition. There should be a variety of gaming products. Thus far, it seems they haven't had success comparable to explicitly liberal-themed gaming products like Thirsty Sword Lesbians or Coyote & Crow. But that's not a reason not to try.

Why should there be? Regular gamers don't want "conservative games", they want GAMES THAT AREN'T POLITICAL INDOCTRINATION.  And in that sense the plethora of OSR games are doing very well, my own products included.

Yup, 100% on point.  A good system, fun setting, and a group looking to have fun is what we want.  Leave your baggage at the door. 

I would not consider Kickstarter an indicator of anything other than the ability to gather money from a bunch of people into a pile. Even Kickstarters I like.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on June 29, 2021, 08:31:32 PM
I would not consider Kickstarter an indicator of anything other than the ability to gather money from a bunch of people into a pile. Even Kickstarters I like.

Aside from the large amount of indulgence buying happening; There is a big difference between raising a ton of money on kickstarter and having real people still playing your game 5 years later...

Quote from: Silas1066 on June 29, 2021, 10:25:40 AM

we don't see WOTC people getting cancelled.

Yes, we do. Mike Mearls.

Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2021, 09:27:36 PM

Quote from: Silas1066 on June 29, 2021, 10:25:40 AM

we don't see WOTC people getting cancelled.

Yes, we do. Mike Mearls.

I don't remember any controversies involving Mike Mearls, or attempts to cancel him

say what?

Quote from: Silas1066 on June 29, 2021, 09:56:13 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 29, 2021, 09:27:36 PM

Quote from: Silas1066 on June 29, 2021, 10:25:40 AM

we don't see WOTC people getting cancelled.

Yes, we do. Mike Mearls.

I don't remember any controversies involving Mike Mearls, or attempts to cancel him

say what?

Search for #firemikemearls on Twitter. It's been a pet cause of many Pop/Death Cultists for a few years now.