Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:26:33 PM
     I have a feeling that could be an over representation of player populations due to the nature of the platforms.   I do think the people most vocal about playing RPGs will trend left, because IMO experience lefties are pretty vocal about everything they are into, as if no one who has ever come before them was as into their "thing" as they are. 

I'm not sure if it's still true, but when the OSR was first getting attention, it was all over the place online. There were bloggers, podcasts, videos, self-published stuff on RPGNow and Lulu, and regular conversations on many established forums. But one thing I realized after a while was the real old school crowd -- the people who had never stopped playing AD&D for instance -- was much bigger. They were just invisible online, because they had little or no internet presence. Aside from a few places like Dragonsfoot, you'd never know they existed.

The internet does not reflect the people who play games. It reflects the people who are vocal about about games.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 03, 2021, 05:59:13 PM
It's a bit simpler than Venger is putting it.

What we should ask, not just to conventions but demand an answer from everyone who has a claim to any part of this hobby: Is it acceptable for an RPG game to just be about fun without infusing it with any modern political agenda, yes or no?

Then we have to make a list.

This whole kerfuffle started because Ernie knowingly made a political statement, so I don't see your point or argument.

Quote from: Pat on July 03, 2021, 11:59:14 PM

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:26:33 PM
     I have a feeling that could be an over representation of player populations due to the nature of the platforms.   I do think the people most vocal about playing RPGs will trend left, because IMO experience lefties are pretty vocal about everything they are into, as if no one who has ever come before them was as into their "thing" as they are. 

I'm not sure if it's still true, but when the OSR was first getting attention, it was all over the place online. There were bloggers, podcasts, videos, self-published stuff on RPGNow and Lulu, and regular conversations on many established forums. But one thing I realized after a while was the real old school crowd -- the people who had never stopped playing AD&D for instance -- was much bigger. They were just invisible online, because they had little or no internet presence. Aside from a few places like Dragonsfoot, you'd never know they existed.

The internet does not reflect the people who play games. It reflects the people who are vocal about about games.

Very well said, and that is true about all topics.

Quote from: DocJones on July 03, 2021, 07:17:44 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 03, 2021, 05:59:13 PM
What we should ask, not just to conventions but demand an answer from everyone who has a claim to any part of this hobby: Is it acceptable for an RPG game to just be about fun without infusing it with any modern political agenda, yes or no?

Then we have to make a list.

I'd want to ask GenCon what their community manager means by "White silence is white consent".
Do I have to make some sort of racialist affirmation to play a game at their con?

You know exactly what it means. This is what I'm talking about. It's purely rhetorical but what do you REALLY expect them to tell you if indeed you even asked them? You know damn well what they mean. What does that fact MEAN to you? Do you really want to go participate at their Con?

I mean it would be like asking me if I want to go participate at a shit-eating contest.

The real question is taking that time and energy and putting it to use in turning some 5e players to other games that are better made, better run, by YOU.

"Don't get mad. Get even." - JFK

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 01:59:27 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 03, 2021, 05:59:13 PM
It's a bit simpler than Venger is putting it.

What we should ask, not just to conventions but demand an answer from everyone who has a claim to any part of this hobby: Is it acceptable for an RPG game to just be about fun without infusing it with any modern political agenda, yes or no?

Then we have to make a list.

This whole kerfuffle started because Ernie knowingly made a political statement, so I don't see your point or argument.

   Says the guy who wants to blame every death from a chinese bio weapon on conservatives... Not sure if serious...

Quote from: oggsmash on July 04, 2021, 11:34:06 AM

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 01:59:27 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 03, 2021, 05:59:13 PM
It's a bit simpler than Venger is putting it.

What we should ask, not just to conventions but demand an answer from everyone who has a claim to any part of this hobby: Is it acceptable for an RPG game to just be about fun without infusing it with any modern political agenda, yes or no?

Then we have to make a list.

This whole kerfuffle started because Ernie knowingly made a political statement, so I don't see your point or argument.

   Says the guy who wants to blame every death from a chinese bio weapon on conservatives... Not sure if serious...

Every wu flu death (~595K) and an extra 55K for good measure. Although, to be fair (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv7jcciKB_s), adding an extra ~10% to the current provisional total is likely a good guess at the final total that will be reported by the CDC.

Or perhaps his argument is that if conservatives had not elected the Bad Orange Man in 2016, the ChiComs would not have released the wu flu in 2020 to prevent the BOM from being reelected. Hence, they (by electing the BOM, who then pissed off the ChiComs), are responsible for all of the wu flu deaths. But that then begs the question of are the conservatives also to blame for all of the lock-down related deaths?

Quote from: dkabq on July 04, 2021, 12:40:35 PM

Or perhaps his argument is that if conservatives had not elected the Bad Orange Man in 2016, the ChiComs would not have released the wu flu in 2020 to prevent the BOM from being reelected. Hence, they (by electing the BOM, who then pissed off the ChiComs), are responsible for all of the wu flu deaths. But that then begs the question of are the conservatives also to blame for all of the lock-down related deaths?

Take this retard logic elsewhere.

Quote from: jeff37923 on July 04, 2021, 04:12:22 PM

Quote from: dkabq on July 04, 2021, 12:40:35 PM

Or perhaps his argument is that if conservatives had not elected the Bad Orange Man in 2016, the ChiComs would not have released the wu flu in 2020 to prevent the BOM from being reelected. Hence, they (by electing the BOM, who then pissed off the ChiComs), are responsible for all of the wu flu deaths. But that then begs the question of are the conservatives also to blame for all of the lock-down related deaths?

Take this retard logic elsewhere.

Lighten up, Francis...

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 01:59:27 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 03, 2021, 05:59:13 PM
It's a bit simpler than Venger is putting it.

What we should ask, not just to conventions but demand an answer from everyone who has a claim to any part of this hobby: Is it acceptable for an RPG game to just be about fun without infusing it with any modern political agenda, yes or no?

Then we have to make a list.

This whole kerfuffle started because Ernie knowingly made a political statement, so I don't see your point or argument.

Ernies "political statement" amounted to saying "there's people who want to play games without modern political indoctrination in them". That's all it was.

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 04, 2021, 07:01:48 PM

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 01:59:27 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on July 03, 2021, 05:59:13 PM
It's a bit simpler than Venger is putting it.

What we should ask, not just to conventions but demand an answer from everyone who has a claim to any part of this hobby: Is it acceptable for an RPG game to just be about fun without infusing it with any modern political agenda, yes or no?

Then we have to make a list.

This whole kerfuffle started because Ernie knowingly made a political statement, so I don't see your point or argument.

Ernies "political statement" amounted to saying "there's people who want to play games without modern political indoctrination in them". That's all it was.

"TSR has been gone. There's a ton of artists and game designers and people that play..... and recently they were dissed for being old-fashioned, possibly anti modern trends, and enforcing, or even having the concepts of gender identity (laughs)."

Saying "these politics are dumb and don't matter" is a strong political statement.   

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 10:29:18 PM

Saying "these politics are dumb and don't matter" is a strong political statement.

Only in Bizarro world. In any approximation of the real world, saying politics are dumb and don't matter is pretty much the definition of apolitical.

Quote from: Pat on July 04, 2021, 11:06:15 PM

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 10:29:18 PM

Saying "these politics are dumb and don't matter" is a strong political statement.

Only in Bizarro world. In any approximation of the real world, saying politics are dumb and don't matter is pretty much the definition of apolitical.

"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being anti-abortion (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being anti-slavery (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being racist (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being feminist (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being white (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being against universal background checks (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being pro democracy (laughs)."

Nothing sounds political there to you?

Nope.

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 11:32:54 PM

Quote from: Pat on July 04, 2021, 11:06:15 PM

Quote from: Rhedyn on July 04, 2021, 10:29:18 PM

Saying "these politics are dumb and don't matter" is a strong political statement.

Only in Bizarro world. In any approximation of the real world, saying politics are dumb and don't matter is pretty much the definition of apolitical.

"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being anti-abortion (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being anti-slavery (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being racist (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being feminist (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being white (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being against universal background checks (laughs)."
"There's a ton of people..... and recently they were dissed for being pro democracy (laughs)."

Nothing sounds political there to you?

That's pretty much the point here I was trying to make a few pages earlier. Personally I would not get riled up about a statement like Ernie's, but I fully understand how people might be. Context matters. Ernie might not have intended to make a political statement, and your dad might not have intended to call your mom fat - but the result is all the same.

I understand the Pundit's criticism of the Twitter mob, and I understand the annoyance many others  have expressed - but Ernie's bad decision-making should not be the hill many of us choose to die on. FWIW, he reminds me of how Mark Rein-Hagen used to poop on Twitter every couple of weeks, just a few years ago. - Wake me up when this fool actually contributes anything positive to the hobby other than never-ending durr-ama.

To return to an argument I was initially making - the community should be more careful to who it is lending the airtime. Ernie Gygax ain't Christopher Tolkien. The first mistake here is not Ernie saying what he said; it was that he was talking at all. Let's find legit ways for the 60+ crowd in the hobby to contribute in ways that don't require them to whore themselves out to "strip club owner"-type business people. Once we're there, things will fall in place.

Quote from: Rafael on July 05, 2021, 01:23:00 AM
That's pretty much the point here I was trying to make a few pages earlier. Personally I would not get riled up about a statement like Ernie's, but I fully understand how people might be. Context matters. Ernie might not have intended to make a political statement, and your dad might not have intended to call your mom fat - but the result is all the same.

Its not the pants that make mom look fat.

Blaming dad does not help the fattiness either.