Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 01:24:13 PMIt's not WOTC/Hasbro they swiped it from, Chad. It looks like you don't even know the basic facts we're discussing?

Chad? Really? Thats the best you can come up with? You truly have gotten pathetic in your trolling.

Keep struggling.

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on June 30, 2021, 04:19:49 PM
So, they didn't steal it. They legally acquired it. You admit it, good. (and by the way, most of the information you included above, was no where to be found in this thread)

Thats because Mist has become a compulsive liar. Does not matter what was said. He'll lie about it sooner or later and then whimper about how mean everyone is and how they deliberately misunderstand/misinterpret him.

ad nausium

  The name Chad is used as slang for the tall, blond, ripped frat boy type that bangs multiple chicks a week.  Is that what insults look like these days?  Will he call you God Emperor next?  It also looks like some loose language on stealing and some serious moral judgements coming from a lawyer (which to be honest, he could be the most upstanding one ever, but the reputation for the profession exists for a reason).

Oh my fucking God. As a trans person myself, I think this shit is ridiculous. This is why I don't use twitter. It's a cesspool of morons and cultists and cultist morons.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 30, 2021, 05:53:53 PM
Oh my fucking God. As a trans person myself, I think this shit is ridiculous. This is why I don't use twitter. It's a cesspool of morons and cultists and cultist morons.

You left out the moron cultlsts...How dare you, you bigot.   

I don't understand why Ernie couldn't spout one of the meaningless tautology slogans like "trans rights are human rights" unless he's a conservative or a TERF or something and refuses to lie about it.

Is he a conservative? that would explain everything because The twitterati want to send conservatives to the gas chambers

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 30, 2021, 06:24:38 PM
I don't understand why Ernie couldn't spout one of the meaningless tautology slogans like "trans rights are human rights" unless he's a conservative or a TERF or something and refuses to lie about it.

Is he a conservative? that would explain everything because The twitterati want to send conservatives to the gas chambers

We need to start a "Forgive Ernie Gygax" campaign.

Quote from: Jam The MF on June 30, 2021, 06:27:09 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 30, 2021, 06:24:38 PM
I don't understand why Ernie couldn't spout one of the meaningless tautology slogans like "trans rights are human rights" unless he's a conservative or a TERF or something and refuses to lie about it.

Is he a conservative? that would explain everything because The twitterati want to send conservatives to the gas chambers

We need to start a "Forgive Ernie Gygax" campaign.

He just needs to die his hair pink, identify as trans, and call lesbians bigots for refusing to have sex with him, then they'll immediately forgive him for everything.

I wish I was joking.

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on June 30, 2021, 04:19:49 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 03:52:10 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on June 30, 2021, 02:50:27 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 01:24:13 PM

Quote from: Omega on June 30, 2021, 04:28:36 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 28, 2021, 10:22:10 AMAnd then of course there is the whole, "we think we're clever for stealing the intellectual property of others and are we not gracious for licensing it back to someone who accidentally missed a filing deadline?"

Stealing? Really?

WOTC and/or Hasbro lets IPs slip through their idiot grasp about every year. And thats a good thing as those IPs were not theirs to begin with. But they will shutter them forever just to prevent anyone else using them.

It's not WOTC/Hasbro they swiped it from, Chad. It looks like you don't even know the basic facts we're discussing?

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on June 30, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Quote from: Omega on June 30, 2021, 04:28:36 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 28, 2021, 10:22:10 AMAnd then of course there is the whole, "we think we're clever for stealing the intellectual property of others and are we not gracious for licensing it back to someone who accidentally missed a filing deadline?"

Stealing? Really?

WOTC and/or Hasbro lets IPs slip through their idiot grasp about every year. And thats a good thing as those IPs were not theirs to begin with. But they will shutter them forever just to prevent anyone else using them.

Exactly!

Oh, two of you guys have not even gotten a basic grasp of what's being discussed. Lovely. Low information gamers?

Well, instead of trolling, you could explain it to them politely. Who knows what could happen once they understand the conversation. They might even agree with you.

It was already explained. In this thread. By Pundit even, in addition to others. It's not trolling to be frustrated that people are commenting on a topic they have not actually read, right?

But sure. In summary:

Jayson Elliot, who originally launched Gygax Magazine in 2012, and now publishes Top Secret, had the TSR name. He acquired it legitimately in 2011, and Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. (and Luke) was involved at the time so he fully understood that trademark acquisition.

So are we clear, to begin with, that this is not a WOTC/Hasbro issue? That's not who had the TSR trademark. They had lost it over a decade ago.

Jeff R. Leason and Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. then took advantage of an accidental brief lapse in trademark renewal (apparently they took too long in filing some paperwork) to snipe the mark from Jayson Elliot. You know, rather than calling his friend and saying, "whoops you're about to miss a deadline you might want to fix that" he instead jumped on it and claimed rights to it himself. Even though, again, he had been involved in acquiring the rights originally for Jayson Elliot (and perhaps that's why Ernest knew of the renewal date and perhaps why Elliot didn't get the postcard from the PTO office, but that is speculation).

Ernest then, in a grandiose manner, claimed he was being magnanimous and licensing the name back to Jayson Elliot for $10 a year (under a license he could revoke at any time I believe). And claimed Elliot had agreed, though he had not they were just negotiating.

Jayson Elliot then told Ernest to go F himself, and made it clear he had never agreed. Or to be specific, ""Just one clarification, we never paid any money to them or acknowledged their claim to the trademark. They made an offer which we considered very recently, and chose to reject," Elliot said."

So yeah, you can quibble with the characterization that Ernest and Leason stole the IP from Elliot. It's more like Elliot accidentally dropped his wallet on the ground and Ernest and Leason saw it happen, picked it up, and then tried to sell it back to him as long as they could also use his wallet at any time and might at some point just demand he give them the wallet.

So, they didn't steal it. They legally acquired it. You admit it, good. (and by the way, most of the information you included above, was no where to be found in this thread)

If by "legal" you mean the sniped it at the patent and trademark office, yes. But if by legal you mean they would win in court, almost certainly no. Elliot was still using the trademark in commerce and had been continually doing so for a decade. He can fairly easily challenge the application from Ernest with the PTO, and he will win. It's just costly and takes time. Which is bullshit. He REALLY shouldn't have to deal with his "friend" sniping the trademark from him, particularly since his friend was a participant in Elliot getting the trademark for that company to begin with and all along Ernest claimed to be supportive of Elliot and his company. It was a sleazy backstabbing maneuver by Ernest. And it sure as F has nothing to do with anything WOTC or Hasbro did.

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 06:54:06 PM

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on June 30, 2021, 04:19:49 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 03:52:10 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on June 30, 2021, 02:50:27 PM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 30, 2021, 01:24:13 PM

Quote from: Omega on June 30, 2021, 04:28:36 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 28, 2021, 10:22:10 AMAnd then of course there is the whole, "we think we're clever for stealing the intellectual property of others and are we not gracious for licensing it back to someone who accidentally missed a filing deadline?"

Stealing? Really?

WOTC and/or Hasbro lets IPs slip through their idiot grasp about every year. And thats a good thing as those IPs were not theirs to begin with. But they will shutter them forever just to prevent anyone else using them.

It's not WOTC/Hasbro they swiped it from, Chad. It looks like you don't even know the basic facts we're discussing?

Quote from: TheShadowSpawn on June 30, 2021, 09:30:34 AM

Quote from: Omega on June 30, 2021, 04:28:36 AM

Quote from: Mistwell on June 28, 2021, 10:22:10 AMAnd then of course there is the whole, "we think we're clever for stealing the intellectual property of others and are we not gracious for licensing it back to someone who accidentally missed a filing deadline?"

Stealing? Really?

WOTC and/or Hasbro lets IPs slip through their idiot grasp about every year. And thats a good thing as those IPs were not theirs to begin with. But they will shutter them forever just to prevent anyone else using them.

Exactly!

Oh, two of you guys have not even gotten a basic grasp of what's being discussed. Lovely. Low information gamers?

Well, instead of trolling, you could explain it to them politely. Who knows what could happen once they understand the conversation. They might even agree with you.

It was already explained. In this thread. By Pundit even, in addition to others. It's not trolling to be frustrated that people are commenting on a topic they have not actually read, right?

But sure. In summary:

Jayson Elliot, who originally launched Gygax Magazine in 2012, and now publishes Top Secret, had the TSR name. He acquired it legitimately in 2011, and Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. (and Luke) was involved at the time so he fully understood that trademark acquisition.

So are we clear, to begin with, that this is not a WOTC/Hasbro issue? That's not who had the TSR trademark. They had lost it over a decade ago.

Jeff R. Leason and Ernest Gary Gygax Jr. then took advantage of an accidental brief lapse in trademark renewal (apparently they took too long in filing some paperwork) to snipe the mark from Jayson Elliot. You know, rather than calling his friend and saying, "whoops you're about to miss a deadline you might want to fix that" he instead jumped on it and claimed rights to it himself. Even though, again, he had been involved in acquiring the rights originally for Jayson Elliot (and perhaps that's why Ernest knew of the renewal date and perhaps why Elliot didn't get the postcard from the PTO office, but that is speculation).

Ernest then, in a grandiose manner, claimed he was being magnanimous and licensing the name back to Jayson Elliot for $10 a year (under a license he could revoke at any time I believe). And claimed Elliot had agreed, though he had not they were just negotiating.

Jayson Elliot then told Ernest to go F himself, and made it clear he had never agreed. Or to be specific, ""Just one clarification, we never paid any money to them or acknowledged their claim to the trademark. They made an offer which we considered very recently, and chose to reject," Elliot said."

So yeah, you can quibble with the characterization that Ernest and Leason stole the IP from Elliot. It's more like Elliot accidentally dropped his wallet on the ground and Ernest and Leason saw it happen, picked it up, and then tried to sell it back to him as long as they could also use his wallet at any time and might at some point just demand he give them the wallet.

So, they didn't steal it. They legally acquired it. You admit it, good. (and by the way, most of the information you included above, was no where to be found in this thread)

If by "legal" you mean the sniped it at the patent and trademark office, yes. But if by legal you mean they would win in court, almost certainly no. Elliot was still using the trademark in commerce and had been continually doing so for a decade. He can fairly easily challenge the application from Ernest with the PTO, and he will win. It's just costly and takes time. Which is bullshit. He REALLY shouldn't have to deal with his "friend" sniping the trademark from him, particularly since his friend was a participant in Elliot getting the trademark for that company to begin with and all along Ernest claimed to be supportive of Elliot and his company. It was a sleazy backstabbing maneuver by Ernest. And it sure as F has nothing to do with anything WOTC or Hasbro did.

Why do you place legal in quotations. Is it illegal to file for a trademark that someone has let lapsed? No, its not. In fact I'd be willing to bet it happens all the time.

I don't defend EGG's actions, not at all.  If that is indeed how it went down, it was pretty and underhanded. That doesn't meant it wasn't legally acquired. You lied, or exaggerated based on your personal feelings about the subject and then tried to say the other people weren't informed after they commented on your lie.

We might have found common ground if you hadn't gone full progressive troll on everyone.

While we're being progressive trolls, is there any truth to the statement I saw elsewhere that one of the things Ernie said in the interview (or its follow-ups) was that women shouldn't role-play (possibly just with him) because their brains can't handle it?

Quote from: ScytheSong on June 30, 2021, 07:52:54 PM
While we're being progressive trolls, is there any truth to the statement I saw elsewhere that one of the things Ernie said in the interview (or its follow-ups) was that women shouldn't role-play (possibly just with him) because their brains can't handle it?

I wouldn't be surprised

Quote from: ScytheSong on June 30, 2021, 07:52:54 PM
While we're being progressive trolls, is there any truth to the statement I saw elsewhere that one of the things Ernie said in the interview (or its follow-ups) was that women shouldn't role-play (possibly just with him) because their brains can't handle it?

I'd want to see a screencap or archive of it. It's one thing to resist kowtowing to a tiny minority (sorry BCT, but trans people really are a small grouping in the grand scheme of things). It's another to write off half the fucking population as customers.

What has Ernie Gygax ever produced? Not promised. Produced and sold.

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but it seems to me that a dozen OSR guys have far more RPG credits and experience running an OSR (or 5e 3PPP) company than Ernie and they should have sniped the TSR logo instead.

Although, I'm kinda skeptical of the value of the TSR logo without any of the IP.

Does anyone know if Ernie has control of the TSR trade dress as well?

Although, I've seen plenty of 3PP modules since the 3e D20 rush with people obviously copying the TSR trade dress.

Quote from: ScytheSong on June 30, 2021, 07:52:54 PM
While we're being progressive trolls, is there any truth to the statement I saw elsewhere that one of the things Ernie said in the interview (or its follow-ups) was that women shouldn't role-play (possibly just with him) because their brains can't handle it?

Was that before or after he said that women were poopie heads with heads made of poop?



Have to rate that one as a: Yeah Nah, not true.