Quote from: tenbones on June 21, 2021, 12:15:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 10:37:35 AM

Quote from: imurrx on June 19, 2021, 05:01:02 PM
The chainmail bikini offers no protection except as a distraction or unless they have been "enhanced".

I just saying...

The fur loincloth offers a comparable lack of protection for our barbarian heroes.

... and yet no one really complains about that.

It's almost like the people that do the complaining about these things really have to get cyclopian in their squinting to find something to complain about.

Edit: As an aside, I loved how Beasts and Barbarians created an Edge - Loincloth Hero, to allow people to play that (works as a Chainmail Bikini too).

Maybe being big and strong and scantily clad is a male fantasy or something? But conversely a chainmail bikini is not a female fantasy?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 02:30:53 PM

Quote from: tenbones on June 21, 2021, 12:15:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 10:37:35 AM

Quote from: imurrx on June 19, 2021, 05:01:02 PM
The chainmail bikini offers no protection except as a distraction or unless they have been "enhanced".

I just saying...

The fur loincloth offers a comparable lack of protection for our barbarian heroes.

... and yet no one really complains about that.

It's almost like the people that do the complaining about these things really have to get cyclopian in their squinting to find something to complain about.

Edit: As an aside, I loved how Beasts and Barbarians created an Edge - Loincloth Hero, to allow people to play that (works as a Chainmail Bikini too).

Maybe being big and strong and scantily clad is a male fantasy or something? But conversely a chainmail bikini is not a female fantasy?

Boxcrayon is right, we need more fantasy burkas.  Nothing says female fantasy like a full body covering

Quote from: Shasarak on June 21, 2021, 03:58:12 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 02:30:53 PM

Quote from: tenbones on June 21, 2021, 12:15:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 10:37:35 AM

Quote from: imurrx on June 19, 2021, 05:01:02 PM
The chainmail bikini offers no protection except as a distraction or unless they have been "enhanced".

I just saying...

The fur loincloth offers a comparable lack of protection for our barbarian heroes.

... and yet no one really complains about that.

It's almost like the people that do the complaining about these things really have to get cyclopian in their squinting to find something to complain about.

Edit: As an aside, I loved how Beasts and Barbarians created an Edge - Loincloth Hero, to allow people to play that (works as a Chainmail Bikini too).

Maybe being big and strong and scantily clad is a male fantasy or something? But conversely a chainmail bikini is not a female fantasy?

Boxcrayon is right, we need more fantasy burkas.  Nothing says female fantasy like a full body covering

Maybe a bit too far in the other direction?

All kinds of suspect stuff going on with "new TSR"

for starters, the guy who owned the second incarnation of the company, which produced Gygax Magazine, Top Secret NWO, etc. apparently let the trademark expire accidentally. Ernie's buddy then went and snatched it up (still trying to get clarification on how and why this happened)

That same dude still owns the domain names and emails for TSR Games. Website is still up, and there is still some merchandise for sale on the interwebs from the company. That is why Ernie and co. are using tsr.games and not the proper domain name and title.

On the new company's site, we see them selling dice and t-shirts with the old, trademarked logo for TSR that WOTC still has rights to. What happens when they notice?

and Gail Gygax is lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce, as we now have another Gygax producing games under the name TSR --that creates confusion in the consumer in regards to who owns the Gygax copyrights and trademarks, so you better bet she is gonna sue

and what about the Marmoreal Tomb KS that was never delivered by Ernie and his old business buddies? $126,000 was raised for that, and it is over 5 years late. The comments and accusations on the KS page are scathing, with people claiming Ernie spent the money on a new home and wedding, and that the company doesn't even have money to print the materials. Troll Lord Games tried to come to the rescue, but the whole thing is a complete cluster

I'm sure Ken Whitman also has some new croud-funded projects going on right now as well. Is he going to create a theme park too?

Note I'm not a fanboy or anything, just addressing a few topics you've brought up with info I've seen around the web.

Quote from: Silas1066 on June 21, 2021, 05:14:13 PM
All kinds of suspect stuff going on with "new TSR"

for starters, the guy who owned the second incarnation of the company, which produced Gygax Magazine, Top Secret NWO, etc. apparently let the trademark expire accidentally. Ernie's buddy then went and snatched it up (still trying to get clarification on how and why this happened)

That same dude still owns the domain names and emails for TSR Games. Website is still up, and there is still some merchandise for sale on the interwebs from the company. That is why Ernie and co. are using tsr.games and not the proper domain name and title.

On the new company's site, we see them selling dice and t-shirts with the old, trademarked logo for TSR that WOTC still has rights to. What happens when they notice?

So apparently WotC let all the trademarks of TSR lapse, Moon-face, Grimorley, Lizard Logo, Angled logo...so they snatched them up, all.

Quote
and Gail Gygax is lurking in the shadows waiting to pounce, as we now have another Gygax producing games under the name TSR --that creates confusion in the consumer in regards to who owns the Gygax copyrights and trademarks, so you better bet she is gonna sue

Gail's always a danger in that respect, I think.  To be honest I was kind of tensed up when The Lost Crypt dropped.  Didn't know if she'd come after Frog God or worse, me.

Quote
and what about the Marmoreal Tomb KS that was never delivered by Ernie and his old business buddies? $126,000 was raised for that, and it is over 5 years late. The comments and accusations on the KS page are scathing, with people claiming Ernie spent the money on a new home and wedding, and that the company doesn't even have money to print the materials. Troll Lord Games tried to come to the rescue, but the whole thing is a complete cluster

While I was livestreaming today, Chuck Cumbow from TLG was in the comments and he had an update: it is at the printers, the KS folks will get their promised items, future sales are still a question mark.

Quote
I'm sure Ken Whitman also has some new croud-funded projects going on right now as well. Is he going to create a theme park too?

This made me laugh. 

Seems like the Gygaxes are collectively trying to do their best to ensure nobody will ever buy anything from a Gygax.

Quote from: imurrx on June 19, 2021, 05:01:02 PM
The chainmail bikini offers no protection except as a distraction or unless they have been "enhanced".

I just saying...

Google Boudica.

Quote from: Batjon on June 21, 2021, 04:54:31 AM
Were any of the game devs on this podcast and bought into this garbage? I don't have the patience to listen to woke nonsense on a podcast without putting my fist through a PC monitor.

All of them went to the podcast as far as I can tell, there's about 5-6 "chapters" and the podcast's name is GiantLands.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 02:30:53 PM

Quote from: tenbones on June 21, 2021, 12:15:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 10:37:35 AM

Quote from: imurrx on June 19, 2021, 05:01:02 PM
The chainmail bikini offers no protection except as a distraction or unless they have been "enhanced".

I just saying...

The fur loincloth offers a comparable lack of protection for our barbarian heroes.

... and yet no one really complains about that.

It's almost like the people that do the complaining about these things really have to get cyclopian in their squinting to find something to complain about.

Edit: As an aside, I loved how Beasts and Barbarians created an Edge - Loincloth Hero, to allow people to play that (works as a Chainmail Bikini too).

Maybe being big and strong and scantily clad is a male fantasy or something? But conversely a chainmail bikini is not a female fantasy?

Why is it that Thor (The Movie) had a 48% of female audience?)

Also Google Boudica.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 21, 2021, 10:15:11 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 02:30:53 PM

Quote from: tenbones on June 21, 2021, 12:15:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 10:37:35 AM

Quote from: imurrx on June 19, 2021, 05:01:02 PM
The chainmail bikini offers no protection except as a distraction or unless they have been "enhanced".

I just saying...

The fur loincloth offers a comparable lack of protection for our barbarian heroes.

... and yet no one really complains about that.

It's almost like the people that do the complaining about these things really have to get cyclopian in their squinting to find something to complain about.

Edit: As an aside, I loved how Beasts and Barbarians created an Edge - Loincloth Hero, to allow people to play that (works as a Chainmail Bikini too).

Maybe being big and strong and scantily clad is a male fantasy or something? But conversely a chainmail bikini is not a female fantasy?

Why is it that Thor (The Movie) had a 48% of female audience?)

Also Google Boudica.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Because for females, watching a jacked, good-looking guy with blonde hair and deep blue eyes...makes them and their girlfriends really, really thirsty.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on June 21, 2021, 11:03:02 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 21, 2021, 10:15:11 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 02:30:53 PM

Quote from: tenbones on June 21, 2021, 12:15:50 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on June 21, 2021, 10:37:35 AM

Quote from: imurrx on June 19, 2021, 05:01:02 PM
The chainmail bikini offers no protection except as a distraction or unless they have been "enhanced".

I just saying...

The fur loincloth offers a comparable lack of protection for our barbarian heroes.

... and yet no one really complains about that.

It's almost like the people that do the complaining about these things really have to get cyclopian in their squinting to find something to complain about.

Edit: As an aside, I loved how Beasts and Barbarians created an Edge - Loincloth Hero, to allow people to play that (works as a Chainmail Bikini too).

Maybe being big and strong and scantily clad is a male fantasy or something? But conversely a chainmail bikini is not a female fantasy?

Why is it that Thor (The Movie) had a 48% of female audience?)

Also Google Boudica.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Because for females, watching a jacked, good-looking guy with blonde hair and deep blue eyes...makes them and their girlfriends really, really thirsty.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

LOL

Also known as "Sex Sells"

ALL the covers of the bodice ripper novels feature shirtless (or almost) strong guys... What's the market demographic?

Fabio romance novel covers and female adoring fans, anyone?

Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 21, 2021, 10:15:11 PM
...
Why is it that Thor (The Movie) had a 48% of female audience?)
...

Fun Fact:

In 2019 More Women Saw 'Rambo: Last Blood' Than The New 'Charlie's Angels' Reboot...
https://weekinnerd.com/2019/11/21/get-woke-go-broke-more-women-saw-rambo-last-blood-than-the-new-charlies-angels-video/

ROTFL!

Quote from: GeekyBugle on June 21, 2021, 11:48:25 PM
...
ALL the covers of the bodice ripper novels feature shirtless (or almost) strong guys... What's the market demographic?

Even better: The "50 Shades of Grey" phenomenon.

Total kinky fuckery.

35 million copies sold - the best selling book series of the past decade.

All three film adaptations opened at #1 in the box office.

Written by a woman for women.


Oh and just to bring it back to RPG's...

You can totally do a chainmail bikini ginger-swordswoman PC in 5e.

It's a 100% viable option with the Barbarian character class.

D&D has come so far... 

Quote from: imurrx on June 19, 2021, 11:22:10 AM
The only thing that 3e did was started using the word "she" instead of "him" in it's texts. It was a way to try break the gender divide and attract more females into the game. It bugged me when they did that switch. From a marketing point, they wanted a new audience instead of old aging fat men to play the game. There was not too much else they changed in my honest opinion that would invoke SJW....

I disagree.

Like I said; Critical Theory based "inclusive" politics were actively being injected in 3e D&D well before most people knew what an SJW was.

My Evidence:

Johnathan Tweet: 3e-and-the-feel-of-D&D
https://www.enworld.org/threads/3e-and-the-feel-of-d-d.667269/

Tweet openly talks about excising any references of or to real-world mythology when worldbuilding for official 3e D&D.

Making the game entirely self-referential.

Effectively doing a "Year Zero" of D&D lore...

Select quotes:
"...one part of the process I enjoyed was describing the world of D&D in its own terms, rather than referring to real-world history and mythology. When writing roleplaying games, I enjoy helping the player get immersed in the setting, and I always found these references to the real world to be distractions."
...
"...by the time we were working on 3rd Ed, D&D had had such a big impact on fantasy that we basically used D&D as its own source."
...
"We were fortunate that by 2000 D&D had such a strong legacy that it could stand on its own without reference to Earth history or mythology."


Johnathan Tweet: Diversity-in-D&D-third-edition
https://www.enworld.org/threads/diversity-in-d-d-third-edition.668462/

Tweet openly discusses pushing a "diversity and inclusion" agenda for 3e.

Select quotes:
"One way we diverged from the D&D heritage, however, was by making the game art more inclusive."
...
"Luckily for us, Wizards of the Coast had an established culture of egalitarianism, and we were able to update the characters depicted in the game to better reflect contemporary sensibilities."
...
"By the time I was working on 3E, I had been dealing with the pronoun issue for ten years."


Notice how pissed he gets when the WOTC Marketing team of the time insisted that they throw their biggest sales demographic a bone...

"...the marketing team added Regdar, a male fighter, to the mix of iconic characters. We designers weren't thrilled, and as the one who had drawn up the iconic characters I was a little chapped."

And to his utter horror:
"... Regdar proved popular, and if the marketing team was looking for an attractive character to publicize, they got one."


The White male fighter hate was strong with the 3e design team:

Monte Cook: Originally Posted by Monte Cook on his now defunct livejournal blog.
https://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16418

Select quotes:
"When I worked at TSR, there was always basically a truism in cover art--the central figure had to be a white male. Most of us actually helping to create the cover art, either by conceiving it or actually creating it, hated that kind of outlook, ..."
...
"...when D&D was bought by WotC and we started working on 3E, we really felt that this was a time when we could break this mold. ..."
...
"It was a thumb to the nose of the old TSR requirement."
...
"At least that was our intention."
...
"...to the credit of a number of people--artists, art directors, designers and editors alike--our disdain for Regdar made its way into a lot of art. If you look closely, Regdar is getting thrashed on most of the early pieces he shows up in. (Look for his ignominious fate on the original DM's Screen, for example.) ..."


James Jacobs: ( D&D writer, and current Creative Director for the Pathfinder Adventure Paths.)
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2iha2?Monte-Cook-on-Gender-and-Race-in-DD-Art

This shit just speaks for itself...

Select quote:
"Killing off Captain Whitebread is indeed a time-honored tradition in WotC books. I've written my fair share of art orders for those books, and have made sure to have Regdar get blasted or ruined or murdered a few times myself (such as at the end of Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk). It's a fun little semi-secret D&D tradition!"


WOTC D&D has hated its core sales demographic long before they eagerly bought their first copies of the 3e PHB.

And they have been paying WOTC to hate on them ever since.

Quote from: Jaeger on June 22, 2021, 02:41:31 AM

Quote from: imurrx on June 19, 2021, 11:22:10 AM
The only thing that 3e did was started using the word "she" instead of "him" in it's texts. It was a way to try break the gender divide and attract more females into the game. It bugged me when they did that switch. From a marketing point, they wanted a new audience instead of old aging fat men to play the game. There was not too much else they changed in my honest opinion that would invoke SJW....

I disagree.

Like I said; Critical Theory based "inclusive" politics were actively being injected in 3e D&D well before most people knew what an SJW was.

My Evidence:

Johnathan Tweet: 3e-and-the-feel-of-D&D
https://www.enworld.org/threads/3e-and-the-feel-of-d-d.667269/

Tweet openly talks about excising any references of or to real-world mythology when worldbuilding for official 3e D&D.

Making the game entirely self-referential.

Effectively doing a "Year Zero" of D&D lore...

Select quotes:
"...one part of the process I enjoyed was describing the world of D&D in its own terms, rather than referring to real-world history and mythology. When writing roleplaying games, I enjoy helping the player get immersed in the setting, and I always found these references to the real world to be distractions."
...
"...by the time we were working on 3rd Ed, D&D had had such a big impact on fantasy that we basically used D&D as its own source."
...
"We were fortunate that by 2000 D&D had such a strong legacy that it could stand on its own without reference to Earth history or mythology."


Johnathan Tweet: Diversity-in-D&D-third-edition
https://www.enworld.org/threads/diversity-in-d-d-third-edition.668462/

Tweet openly discusses pushing a "diversity and inclusion" agenda for 3e.

Select quotes:
"One way we diverged from the D&D heritage, however, was by making the game art more inclusive."
...
"Luckily for us, Wizards of the Coast had an established culture of egalitarianism, and we were able to update the characters depicted in the game to better reflect contemporary sensibilities."
...
"By the time I was working on 3E, I had been dealing with the pronoun issue for ten years."


Notice how pissed he gets when the WOTC Marketing team of the time insisted that they throw their biggest sales demographic a bone...

"...the marketing team added Regdar, a male fighter, to the mix of iconic characters. We designers weren't thrilled, and as the one who had drawn up the iconic characters I was a little chapped."

And to his utter horror:
"... Regdar proved popular, and if the marketing team was looking for an attractive character to publicize, they got one."


The White male fighter hate was strong with the 3e design team:

Monte Cook: Originally Posted by Monte Cook on his now defunct livejournal blog.
https://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?t=16418

Select quotes:
"When I worked at TSR, there was always basically a truism in cover art--the central figure had to be a white male. Most of us actually helping to create the cover art, either by conceiving it or actually creating it, hated that kind of outlook, ..."
...
"...when D&D was bought by WotC and we started working on 3E, we really felt that this was a time when we could break this mold. ..."
...
"It was a thumb to the nose of the old TSR requirement."
...
"At least that was our intention."
...
"...to the credit of a number of people--artists, art directors, designers and editors alike--our disdain for Regdar made its way into a lot of art. If you look closely, Regdar is getting thrashed on most of the early pieces he shows up in. (Look for his ignominious fate on the original DM's Screen, for example.) ..."


James Jacobs: ( D&D writer, and current Creative Director for the Pathfinder Adventure Paths.)
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2iha2?Monte-Cook-on-Gender-and-Race-in-DD-Art

This shit just speaks for itself...

Select quote:
"Killing off Captain Whitebread is indeed a time-honored tradition in WotC books. I've written my fair share of art orders for those books, and have made sure to have Regdar get blasted or ruined or murdered a few times myself (such as at the end of Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk). It's a fun little semi-secret D&D tradition!"


WOTC D&D has hated its core sales demographic long before they eagerly bought their first copies of the 3e PHB.

And they have been paying WOTC to hate on them ever since.

This settles it, first chance I get I'm publishing a game with the classic damsel grabing the hero's legs with him looking manly AF pose on the cover and lots of cheesecake interior art, plus some beefcake too, after all I know what ladies like.

Your only error is thinking this wasn't in gestation well before then, the infection was already under way in the 80's. That's when the first anti chainmail bikini article ever was published in Dragon or Dungeon.

But hey, at least they weren't the Christian fundies!

D&D is lost
MtG is lost
Pathfinder is lost And anything published by Baizuo

And don't get me started on shitty hat.