Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 07:35:43 PM

Quote from: Corolinth on January 30, 2024, 04:36:56 PM

Quote from: BadApple on January 30, 2024, 12:19:24 PM

QuoteIt's possible to be a vegan and shut the fuck up about it.

[citation needed]

This made snort tea.

Success!

Quote from: Abraxus on January 31, 2024, 10:06:55 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on January 31, 2024, 02:30:32 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 29, 2024, 09:16:12 AM
The difference is that the X-card is an unquestionable veto that can be invoked at any time for any reason with no need for justification or explanation and no questioning or discussion allowed.  It's so easy to abuse that part of me suspects that it was designed to be abused.  You would have to be a fool to not anticipate that such an easy to abuse tool will be abused.  If something can be abused, it will be and these tools are very, very easy to abuse.

A chair can be abused. Someone could decide, in the middle of a session, that they don't like what's happening in the game, become triggered, and pick up their chair and hit you with it.

If someone is abusing the X-card, or their needs are such that they simply can't be reasonably accommodated in the planned game, wouldn't you just un-invite them?

Do you need an X-X-card, to play when someone's use of the X-card is affecting your experience?

Your undermine your own counterpoint with your own example. If I see the chair coming I can reasonably block or dodge it.

I think at that point the gaming session is over. It's just a big ol' improvised weapon X-card.

Quote from: Abraxus on January 31, 2024, 10:06:55 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on January 31, 2024, 02:30:32 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 29, 2024, 09:16:12 AM
The difference is that the X-card is an unquestionable veto that can be invoked at any time for any reason with no need for justification or explanation and no questioning or discussion allowed.  It's so easy to abuse that part of me suspects that it was designed to be abused.  You would have to be a fool to not anticipate that such an easy to abuse tool will be abused.  If something can be abused, it will be and these tools are very, very easy to abuse.

A chair can be abused. Someone could decide, in the middle of a session, that they don't like what's happening in the game, become triggered, and pick up their chair and hit you with it.

If someone is abusing the X-card, or their needs are such that they simply can't be reasonably accommodated in the planned game, wouldn't you just un-invite them?

Do you need an X-X-card, to play when someone's use of the X-card is affecting your experience?

Your undermine your own counterpoint with your own example. If I see the chair coming I can reasonably block or dodge it.

Once an X-card is played and because the creator of the card is too stubbornly stupid to fix the main flaw of it. Unless I kick the player out of the game there is no countering the card. If played nether the GM or the players or both either privately or publicly are not allowed to ask the player why they played the card.  Neither does the player who used the card need to volunteer any information. Which can cause games to come to a crashing halt. The fact that you and many of the woke are purposefully blind to that flaw is on you.

Which you equally stubbornly stupidly woke always choose to ignore. As it goes against your carefully constructed personal narrative on the subject

I read a little about X-cards and Safety Tools after this experience and from what I could gather, at any point during a session a player can play the X-Card and the GM has to stop the narration and just move on, "no questions asked".

I do not agree with this approach, if the information that I saw online is true. This seems to me an extremely juvenile action. As I said in my original post, back in the day this kind of stuff would be talked outside of the game as adults.

Even if, using the example above, its something a Player really doesn't want to even imagine, people just ask for a break and mention that they need to discuss something with the GM. We would talk things out and come to an agreement.

If X-cards are really expected to be used "no questions asked" its honestly a terrible way to play make believe and rife with potential for abuse by the more selfish and attention seeking crowd. Not a fan at all and I think if the next game that I join has trigger warnings, x-cards or safety tools I'll rather just bounce and not waste my time.

We are all adults with real life responsibilities that love the hobby enough to make time to schedule a handful of hours to have fun and roleplay. Trying to wrestle control of that time in a selfish manner seems disrespectful to the rest of the people in the game.

Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2024, 10:25:29 PM

Quote from: Abraxus on January 31, 2024, 10:06:55 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on January 31, 2024, 02:30:32 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 29, 2024, 09:16:12 AM
The difference is that the X-card is an unquestionable veto that can be invoked at any time for any reason with no need for justification or explanation and no questioning or discussion allowed.  It's so easy to abuse that part of me suspects that it was designed to be abused.  You would have to be a fool to not anticipate that such an easy to abuse tool will be abused.  If something can be abused, it will be and these tools are very, very easy to abuse.

A chair can be abused. Someone could decide, in the middle of a session, that they don't like what's happening in the game, become triggered, and pick up their chair and hit you with it.

If someone is abusing the X-card, or their needs are such that they simply can't be reasonably accommodated in the planned game, wouldn't you just un-invite them?

Do you need an X-X-card, to play when someone's use of the X-card is affecting your experience?

Your undermine your own counterpoint with your own example. If I see the chair coming I can reasonably block or dodge it.

Once an X-card is played and because the creator of the card is too stubbornly stupid to fix the main flaw of it. Unless I kick the player out of the game there is no countering the card. If played nether the GM or the players or both either privately or publicly are not allowed to ask the player why they played the card.  Neither does the player who used the card need to volunteer any information. Which can cause games to come to a crashing halt. The fact that you and many of the woke are purposefully blind to that flaw is on you.

Which you equally stubbornly stupidly woke always choose to ignore. As it goes against your carefully constructed personal narrative on the subject

Hey man the X card is for trogs like you and me, not for our emotionally and intellectually superiors. Grunt.

Seriously though, it's ironic that most people who advocate for the X card don't know how it was designed to be used.

Since I have been out of the hobby for the past 6 or so years I didn't even knew about all this stuff until recently. You speak in jest but it really feels like this is the intent, specially taking into account some stuff that you can see online about the "proper" usage of these "safety tools" and why they are so important.

Greetings!

All of the people that support "Trigger Warnings", "Safety Tools", and "X-Cards" are fucking pathetic, and weak. I would never have anything to do with any of these BS Marxist degenerate terms and practices. I also would not allow any such person to play at my table.

Yes, I am a Right Wing Tyrant. It is MY GAME, and MY TABLE. I wear the fucking Viking Helmet, I'm the DM, and everything going on is by MY RULES. All of these degenerate morons that don't like it can go and REEE. I rejoice in their salty tears. *Laughing* I am the God-Emperor. I make the rules, I determine how they are interpreted. I decide just about everything that goes on in the game world, and also at my game table. Yes, that's right. MY game table. My hame. My fucking house. I'm the host, and I am in charge. Not some whiny fucking snot-nosed wanna-be adult that is still trapped at the age of 15, even though they are 25 or 30.

Fuck all that. DM's need to be OLD SCHOOL, and in control. At all times. Players learn to respect you, respect the game world, and respect YOU, as a person. Insist on it. Expect it. This really isn't being insufferably demanding or harsh--it is how people that are actually friends and adults interact with each other. Basic comprehension of the rules. Basic manners, and adult temperament and maturity.

Not trying to pull some BS power-ass grab stunt with this BS and seek to fuck the DM, and impose their own whims on the game world, the game itself, and also, everyone else at the table.

All of this is so wild to me. What the fuck are you people playing with drooling idiots for? All of these drama-queens and feminized troglodytes. Just so sad.

I don't have players that act like degenerate, ill-mannered morons at my table. If someone even came at me with any of this--yeah, I'd stop the game, and throw their ass out, promptly. Goodbye. You are not playing, you are dismissed, and you won't be invited back. It really is that simple. I'm being more theoretical, because as I mentioned, all of my players are mature, well-mannered adults. I can't imagine anyone even talking to me like these idiots. It is mind boggling! *Laughing*

Ahh, well. Be strong, and keep a FIRM PIMP HAND AT ALL TIMES!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Abraxus on January 31, 2024, 10:06:55 PM

Quote from: pawsplay on January 31, 2024, 02:30:32 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 29, 2024, 09:16:12 AM
The difference is that the X-card is an unquestionable veto that can be invoked at any time for any reason with no need for justification or explanation and no questioning or discussion allowed.  It's so easy to abuse that part of me suspects that it was designed to be abused.  You would have to be a fool to not anticipate that such an easy to abuse tool will be abused.  If something can be abused, it will be and these tools are very, very easy to abuse.

A chair can be abused. Someone could decide, in the middle of a session, that they don't like what's happening in the game, become triggered, and pick up their chair and hit you with it.

If someone is abusing the X-card, or their needs are such that they simply can't be reasonably accommodated in the planned game, wouldn't you just un-invite them?

Do you need an X-X-card, to play when someone's use of the X-card is affecting your experience?

Your undermine your own counterpoint with your own example. If I see the chair coming I can reasonably block or dodge it.

It's a retarted example. No one consents to hitting people over the head with a chair when playing D&D for any reason. The point of the X-Card is that everyone agrees to use it, and in the manner intended, can be used for abuse.

Well at *my table* - I've already pre-screened my players for needing such tip-toeing upon the eggshell dancefloor of their sensibilities. I run high-adventure with mature and adult content. Full stop. So you're either on board with what that *might* entail and trust me that I'm going to attempt to deliver, in good faith, a great experience, or you're not going to play. /shrug.

In a public event - like a Con, I tend to go PG generally, depending on the game I'm running. My CP2020 games were pretty much solid R-rated. Granted I haven't run at a Con for years, largely because of the elements that started the weirdness that would produce X-cards and Safe Spaces and shit like that. IF I were to run at a Con these days (and I'm planning on doing that in the near future to support my project) I wouldn't use an X-cards for one reason: I don't believe in the good faith of random people in the gaming "community" today.

If that becomes an issue with the Convention itself, I'll run my own ad-hoc games for people that want to play them in the Free Gaming area or I'll get a room specifically for the game I'm showcasing. I'm fine with discussing the rating (R for violence, mild adult themes blah blah) but I wouldn't go into details, and obviously i'd adjust things for the age of my players. But adults? I tend to treat adults like ADULTS. If you happen to be an adult that has the sensibilities of a child, I can't help you. Nor do I want to.

Quote from: daniel_ream on January 31, 2024, 06:21:22 PM

Quote from: Omega on January 31, 2024, 02:20:20 PM
That would be a great argument. If it werent completely false.

The 5E adventures are fifty-buck full-colour hardbacks that span ten or more levels.  They're not 32 page monochrome folios any more.  You're comparing apples to oranges.

Except more than a few of those hardbacks actually do not have as much content as they seem. As usual WotC spends alot of time saying very little. And then leaving out stuff they SHOULD have written.

Quote from: rytrasmi on January 31, 2024, 10:25:29 PM

Seriously though, it's ironic that most people who advocate for the X card don't know how it was designed to be used.

Because it was being abused practically right out the gate.

Quote from: Cipher on February 01, 2024, 12:18:24 AM
I read a little about X-cards and Safety Tools after this experience and from what I could gather, at any point during a session a player can play the X-Card and the GM has to stop the narration and just move on, "no questions asked".

I do not agree with this approach, if the information that I saw online is true. This seems to me an extremely juvenile action. As I said in my original post, back in the day this kind of stuff would be talked outside of the game as adults.

Its true and its practically designed to be abused. Its also why so many oppose it.

Quote from: Omega on February 02, 2024, 04:54:32 AM

Quote from: Cipher on February 01, 2024, 12:18:24 AM
I read a little about X-cards and Safety Tools after this experience and from what I could gather, at any point during a session a player can play the X-Card and the GM has to stop the narration and just move on, "no questions asked".

I do not agree with this approach, if the information that I saw online is true. This seems to me an extremely juvenile action. As I said in my original post, back in the day this kind of stuff would be talked outside of the game as adults.

Its true and its practically designed to be abused. Its also why so many oppose it.

Then it is, indeed, a terrible idea and I understand and also agree with the people opposing its usage.

Not to mention as I said previously the creator the card is aware of the main flaw and is stupidly stubbornly against fixing it let alone even addressing it.

It's it funny when the advocates are either ignorant or purposefully ignorant of the flaw then " can't " understand why others in the community think it may be an issue.


What gets me is the apologists who claim abuse never happens or anything can be abused.   See above truly stupid, ignorant, disingenuous example that a chair can also be abused because you can hit people with it.

Quote from: Abraxus on February 02, 2024, 08:22:57 AM
Not to mention as I said previously the creator the card is aware of the main flaw and is stupidly stubbornly against fixing it let alone even addressing it.

This is the main reason why I suspect that what I would call abuse of trigger warnings or the X-card is actually these things working as intended.  This is actually what these things are designed to do.

Quote from: yosemitemike on February 02, 2024, 10:53:26 AM
This is the main reason why I suspect that what I would call abuse of trigger warnings or the X-card is actually these things working as intended.  This is actually what these things are designed to do.

Maybe they should rename the X-card to something like, "I'm an absolutely insufferable narcissistic faggot".

It's never a good idea to give emotionally unstable people a whole lot of say and power in dictating the behaviour and speech of others.

If you have such special needs, you have to do your own work to find that group of players that suits those needs while you keep working those issues so as to not impose yourself on others. If you find a group that imused cards or whatever the fuck else needed to pander to your broken soul, and enjoy doing so, fine. Go right ahead. Don't impose it on every group you come across in vague and fuzzy ways. That's just a way to emotionally entrap others and basking in some weird glory by lecturing to them or tossing them out of the game.

This is a coping mechanism, not a solution.